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Old 05-22-2014, 11:00 PM   #1
UDown0311
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My Ride: '04 330ci ZHP
trying to resolve trans / ECM / other issue

This is for anyone who might be having the same issues as I, or at least part of them. Hopefully they'll point you in the right direction.

The following symptoms came up apx. 1k miles after a head gasket repair and vanos refresh.

SYMPTOMS
- poor power within certain parts of the band
- hesitation
- bucking
- occasional power surges
- no start / engine won't turn over

CORRECTIONS
- changed my auto trans fluid and filter - Dramatically improved the smoothness of shifts.
- put in new cam sensors - Improved MPG, less hesitaiton, bucking eliminated.
- new crankshaft position sensor - The car would not start the following day after I replaced the cam sensors. It would crank, but wouldn't start. The engine sounded like it was struggling, then there was a hard shuttering before the cog and "P" light on the dash came on (forgot what it's called, it's in the user manual). After installing a new sensor, this problem was eliminated, MPG improved, less hesitation and fewer power surges
- new upper intake boot - I noticed there was a tear in it when I was replacing the cam sensor
- cleaned all electronic connections and MAF - I do this most times I get into taking things out of the engine or disconnecting parts.

For the most part I still seem to have a lack of power and some infrequent power surges (especially during acceleration off of idle), most noticeably after driving for regular periods of time and after frequent stops at lights and signs.

I would like to say that flashing the DME would solve this issue, but I'm starting to doubt it. Plus, it's complicated to figure out. I'll post an update after I take another step, hopefully in the right direction.

Last edited by UDown0311; 06-01-2014 at 06:03 PM.
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Old 06-01-2014, 02:58 PM   #2
UDown0311
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So just an update to the situation:

I did some digging around on the forum and found this thread.

It sounds like it could be something worth checking out, especially at my current milege of 95.5K. PLUS, today when I went to try and start the car after driving it briefly, it wouldn't turn over. Turned key to ignition, no noise, no warning lights, nothing. Turned the key off, turned it back on and I didn't hear the fuel pump prime (it may have done it the first time, but I wasn't paying attention). So, it could be time to change it out.

I'll do the pump troubleshooting before I try any DME programing. Post results later.

Last edited by UDown0311; 06-01-2014 at 06:05 PM.
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Old 06-20-2014, 08:44 PM   #3
UDown0311
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I went through some old receipts and found that the fuel pump had been replaced about 10k miles ago, but I went ahead with the Bentley Manual's troubleshooting method. Voltage was good, pressure was good, residual pressure seemed ok. After about 5 minutes the pressure had dropped .1 psi which is within the specifications. I might go back and wait the full 20 minutes.

I also took the time to remove the intake manifold completely and check all the CCV plumbing and gaskets to make sure it was all fastened correctly. Everything looked fine, no tears, no cracks, but I do have a fair amount of oil in the intake. I'm thinking of doing a catch can conversion later down the road after I figure this power loss issue out.

So I guess this still leaves me with a problem that needs solving. As of now I'm thinking it could be:

1. Fuel supply - maybe injectors
2. Vacuum leak I'm not seeing - I need to do a smoke test. I also have this U.S. General vacuum gauge test kit thing I could hook up to the CCV plumbing. Might try that this weekend to see what happens.
3. Possibly my throttle body o-ring needs replacing, or the MAF needs replacing, or a new DISA gasket, I don't know.

Replies...anyone ???
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Old 06-21-2014, 07:47 AM   #4
markusmarkus
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I'd can the oil catch can thingee and just replace the ccv and its hoses. It's not nice to fool with Mother BMW.

The fuel supply is fine as the pressure readings are in spec. I bet the VANOS needs a rebuild.


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Old 06-21-2014, 08:21 AM   #5
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I see 2 separate issues here.

Starting problem, you state the engine does not "turn over". Does not turn over means no crank to me, not sure if you use the same terms as I do?

If you have an intermittent no crank situation, I would be looking at the ignition switch, clutch switch if you have a manual trans and maybe even a questionable key or EWS antenna.

As for the loss of power, hesitation, surging, I would look at this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=966614

Also I see you are in Texas, the IAT may be getting high due the ambient temps when stopped in traffic causing the ignition timing to be retarded which will cause a significant loss in power.

If you have an OBDII scan tool that can record the OBD datastream then you can watch the IAT temps and ignition timing to see if this may be part of the problem.

An OBDII smartphone App and interface is a good tool for recording the OBD datastream.
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Old 06-21-2014, 09:36 AM   #6
UDown0311
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Quote:
Originally Posted by markusmarkus View Post
Ibet the VANOS needs a rebuild.
I did new seals and rings if that's what you mean by a rebuild, and I triple checked my timing to make sure I got it right. The car idles great.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Starting problem, you state the engine does not "turn over". Does not turn over means no crank to me, not sure if you use the same terms as I do?
Yea, doesn't crank. Turn the key to pos 3 and nothing, no noise or anything. But I haven't had this problem in a while. I thought it was fuel pump related but after testing I guess not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Also I see you are in Texas, the IAT may be getting high due the ambient temps when stopped in traffic causing the ignition timing to be retarded which will cause a significant loss in power.
Maybe, but the problem persists even when the car is cold. Unless the ignition timing is mapped?

I'm going to test the residual pressure again today, maybe hook up this vacuum gauge and then see if I can get some live data.
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Old 06-25-2014, 10:22 PM   #7
UDown0311
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Alright so I have Torque Pro now which is great cause it lets me show graphs - 6-25 NEUTRAL.pdf. Car was in neutral after having been driven for 10 miles and at temp. I have other logs if required. Solid lines are Long Term trims, dotted lines are Short Term trims.

Correct me if I'm wrong but these levels are acceptable, right?

In either case, improved levels at higher RPM means possible vacuum leak, which is what is shown here, right?

Last edited by UDown0311; 06-25-2014 at 10:23 PM.
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Old 06-25-2014, 11:34 PM   #8
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Fuel trims are really off. Rarely should the LTFT be negative. Best to gather data for 3 minutes from cold start with just letting the engine idle and gather some trip data in town and while cruising on the highway.

If your graph is in neutral with you running the engine through the revs, this is not a really valid test or at least it does not really tell you much.

What is the history on the O2 sensors and have they been disconnected recently?

Best to gather data and just email it to me, I analyze a lot of different parameters, usually not with a single graph.
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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:32 AM   #9
UDown0311
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O2 sensors were never removed but were disconnected when I removed the head. I think they're original so I'm sure they need replacing.

After reviewing the other ZHP thread I thought maybe this poor performance could be resolved by flashing the DME. Maybe it will, but if sensors are bad they should be replaced anyway. Every sensor under the hood except for O2's and knock have been replaced within 10K, so those are on the list.

Still have a code and a consistent engine rumble. Coils and plugs are not brand new but they're not old, and there's no oil in them.
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Old 06-26-2014, 07:43 AM   #10
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Time to start disconnecting the O2 sensors one at a time to verify the O2 wiring is correct. Seen so many cases of mixed up O2 sensor wiring. Everything from sensors plugged into the wrong bank, mixing up actual pre and post cat sensors when replacing them, pre and post cat O2 sensor plugged into itself along with the engine harness pre and post cat o2 sensor plugged into themselves.

Assuming nothing is correct and carefully review all the O2 sensor positions and connections.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:15 AM   #11
UDown0311
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^Yea I'll have to do that. Trying to find an example of proper wiring.

Here's some data from this morning. The first PDF is a cold start and then driving around town. Car seemed decent, at least better than yesterday. Not as much rumble and acceleration was better than normal, though not perfect. Which is interesting because there was no data collected from the O2 sensors. They were being monitored, but nothing was being picked up. It's as if they were unplugged when in fact they were not. Also - maybe because the O2 sensors were being ignored - the long term trim levels were "better" than what I previously posted.

6-26 CS-T.pdf

This is data from highway driving up to 80 MPH. Again, no O2 sensors.

6-26 W-H.pdf

Sorry if the PDF's are annoying, I can't figure out how to make the data a .jpg to be able to post right on the thread. Next time I'll be sure to log engine speed and engine temperature.
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDown0311 View Post
^Yea I'll have to do that. Trying to find an example of proper wiring.
Can't really determine "proper" wiring as the connectors on the car are NOT MARKED. You have to trial and error disconnect one sensor at a time and check to see what DTC is triggered and what O2 sensor drops out. Best to then LABEL the connectors on the engine side wiring harness for future purposes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by UDown0311 View Post
Here's some data from this morning. The first PDF is a cold start and then driving around town. Car seemed decent, at least better than yesterday. Not as much rumble and acceleration was better than normal, though not perfect. Which is interesting because there was no data collected from the O2 sensors. They were being monitored, but nothing was being picked up. It's as if they were unplugged when in fact they were not. Also - maybe because the O2 sensors were being ignored - the long term trim levels were "better" than what I previously posted.
You have a 2004, likely the car has Wideband or Air/Fuel Lambda sensors and not standard O2 sensors. Search around in Torque Pro to see if you can find Air Fuel/Wideband/Lamba line that is showing data. Simple thing to do is allow Torque Pro to search OBDII datastream and see what data is actually available, this will allow you to find what sensors are actually putting out data.


Quote:
Originally Posted by UDown0311 View Post
Sorry if the PDF's are annoying, I can't figure out how to make the data a .jpg to be able to post right on the thread. Next time I'll be sure to log engine speed and engine temperature.
http://pdf2jpg.net/
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:33 AM   #13
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What problem are you dealing with? Hesitation?
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Old 06-26-2014, 09:43 AM   #14
UDown0311
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^Yea, stuttering mostly and hesitation. Post #1 has more info.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
You have a 2004, likely the car has Wideband or Air/Fuel Lambda sensors and not standard O2 sensors. Search around in Torque Pro to see if you can find Air Fuel/Wideband/Lamba line that is showing data. Simple thing to do is allow Torque Pro to search OBDII datastream and see what data is actually available, this will allow you to find what sensors are actually putting out data.
It has monitored the sensors before, if that mean's anything. For example, the last time I logged, Torque Pro was picking up the O2 sensors' data and the car showed the usual hesitation/stuttering symptoms. This time, when Torque Pro was not picking up O2 sensors, the car was running better. So is it possible that maybe, for whatever reason, the sensors "turned off" this time around, hence the improved performance?
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Old 06-26-2014, 10:04 AM   #15
UDown0311
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I just went back out to get see if they would register now and they did. This is what came up:

Click image for larger version

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Old 06-26-2014, 11:05 AM   #16
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Disable the GPS logging and anything else you do not want to log and then Torque will have an easier time dealing with this. You may need to move the polling interval to 2 seconds if you have a lot of PID's to monitor.

I really like 1 second polling intervals for detail.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-26-2014, 12:50 PM   #17
UDown0311
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I changed the interval but GPS has been off. What if this is an O2 issue. Is there a way to take them out and test?
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Old 06-26-2014, 02:03 PM   #18
jfoj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UDown0311 View Post
I changed the interval but GPS has been off. What if this is an O2 issue. Is there a way to take them out and test?
Gotta slow down a bit here.

This is not a "global" problem with the O2 sensors, if they all 4 were not reporting you would have a SES/CEL/MIL and a bunch of codes. No way his is the case here. Even if the O2 sensors were all bad, you should still have data for the O2 sensors with 0.45 Volts base DME Voltage.

Just because the GPS is off, does not mean you are effectively polling with the tool. You need to go into the Torque settings and there are a lot of options on what you want to poll.

First things first, get a 3 minute cold start with the 4 O2 sensors and RPM and send me the .csv file.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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