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Old 04-27-2010, 02:34 PM   #21
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Socialism FTL.
That has nothin' to do with socialism.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:39 PM   #22
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I am praying that they default on their loans and Europe goes down the tubes. I want Spain to be cheap for me next year!
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:45 PM   #23
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You can thank their collapse partly due to Goldman Sachs

Yes, but I think their financial problems began with the Olympics they hosted in 2004. They went into debt for the Olympics and I don't think they ever recovered their costs for it.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:47 PM   #24
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This is true. They've been getting laughed out of banks around the globe for months now.

I wonder if the Euro moving downward would be good for the US?

Dammit, I wish I was smarter about finance so I knew how to get rich off things like this!
Buy the bonds for pennies on the dollar. They'll recover even if it takes a few years. They'll have to pay off the bonds eventually. Then you will get the interest plus the increased value of the bonds.

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Greece first, Ireland is next. Yeah why should we loan them more money if they don't agree on our terms? Boot them out of the EU for all I care.
Spain and Portugal are on the watch list too.
Iceland went under 2 years ago.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:51 PM   #25
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Yes, but I think their financial problems began with the Olympics they hosted in 2004. They went into debt for the Olympics and I don't think they ever recovered their costs for it.


Greece hired Goldman Sachs to start masking their debt back in 2002. So I find it hard to believe they "began" in 2004. Perhaps you can elaborate.
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Old 04-27-2010, 02:54 PM   #26
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Greece hired Goldman Sachs to start masking their debt back in 2002. So I find it hard to believe they "began" in 2004. Perhaps you can elaborate.
I was not aware of GS going back that far.
I was just trying to illustrate that Greece spent a BN or so on the Olympics, and although the Olympics were successful, the return on their investment was not. The Olympic venues are shuttered and did not evolve into a tourist magnet like they thought it would. It was one of many problems that they have contributing to their problem. But the Olympics were the most visible.
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Old 04-27-2010, 03:18 PM   #27
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Depressing in what way? Does Athens look like Detroit?

Is it still safe for tourists there?


Absolutely. Its not a **** hole, it really isn't. The difference is that it has natural beauty, which you can enjoy whether the country is in an economic sh!t hole or not. I love it there I cant wait to go this summer. The key is to go with someone that knows his way around..that's when you see the real fun spots!
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Old 04-27-2010, 05:30 PM   #28
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That has nothin' to do with socialism.


http://libertyscott.blogspot.com/201...tching-up.html


http://www.marketwatch.com/story/gre...-eu-2009-10-15
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Old 04-27-2010, 06:41 PM   #29
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It's not really the publicity you'd want to talk about with a stranger/foreigner. It's not "nice" to talk to the Germans about WW2 or to you guys about 9/11 either, actually.
Yeah I didn't go around asking but I had several different guides that said you wouldn't hear anyone talk about it and not to ask, so I really don't know any more about the situation than what I've read online...

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Depressing in what way? Does Athens look like Detroit?

Is it still safe for tourists there?
yeah awesome for tourists! I went all over (kalambaka, olympia, athens, hydra, and delphi) It was just kind of depressing because some of the smaller towns were very poor and people would sit on the street with babies and pretend they were theirs to get money. People would chant and bless you if you didn't give them money to make you feel bad. The guide said to ignore it because most werent even homeless (just an act). There were small protests around but nothing big. We were told just not to get close if we saw a riot/protest.

I would definitely recommend hydra very beautiful
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Old 04-27-2010, 07:10 PM   #30
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emerging markets tend to default on external debt after a financial crisis. high or hyperinflation will probably set in in some of those countries to inflate away their own domestic debt. IMF will probably bail them out and reschedule their debt and everyone will be alright in 10 years unless they keep denying that there is no issue.

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Old 04-27-2010, 09:21 PM   #31
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Yeah I didn't go around asking but I had several different guides that said you wouldn't hear anyone talk about it and not to ask, so I really don't know any more about the situation than what I've read online...



yeah awesome for tourists! I went all over (kalambaka, olympia, athens, hydra, and delphi) It was just kind of depressing because some of the smaller towns were very poor and people would sit on the street with babies and pretend they were theirs to get money. People would chant and bless you if you didn't give them money to make you feel bad. The guide said to ignore it because most werent even homeless (just an act). There were small protests around but nothing big. We were told just not to get close if we saw a riot/protest.

I would definitely recommend hydra very beautiful
I'm gonna be ghey and quote this whole thing but OMG Hydra is beautiful, here are some pics from when I was there like 3 years ago..




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Old 04-28-2010, 07:00 PM   #32
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and heres the bailout!

Greek Rescue Plan Seen Topping €100 Billion

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By ANDREA THOMAS, NINA KOEPPEN and GEOFFREY T. SMITH

The bill for bailing out Greece just got more expensive, but Germany pledged Wednesday to rush through Germany's share provided there is a successful outcome to debt-reduction talks with the International Monetary Fund and European Union.

Meeting with German lawmakers in Berlin, IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn said the rescue plan was likely to total between €100 billion and €120 billion (between $132 billion $158 billion) over three years, according to Jürgen Trittin, a parliamentary leader for the opposition Green Party, who gave a statement after the meetings. That ups the total from the €45 billion package that the EU and IMF were putting together for the first year.

A Greek official said the IMF is considering increasing loans to Greece, but expressed doubts about whether the boost would happen. Meanwhile, Europe's hopes of containing the crisis dimmed as Greece's debt woes spread to Portugal, sparking a market selloff across the globe. Charles Forelle, Thorold Barker and Evan Newmark discuss.

Mr. Strauss-Kahn declined to confirm those numbers at a later news conference. The EU accounts for €30 billion of the original €45 billion plan.

The attempt to get quick German commitment to the aid package amid increasing pressure from financial markets came after EU President Herman Van Rompuy said he plans to call a summit for around May 10 for leaders to vote for implementing the EU part of the package. The prospect of contagion sweeping through European sovereign debt markets intensified Wednesday after Spain's sovereign rating was downgraded by Standard Poor's Corp., triggering a selloff of Italian government bonds. The move came a day after S&P cut Greek debt to junk status and pulled Portugal down two notches.
Journal Community

Germany, where popular resistance to the Greek bailout is running high ahead of an important May 9 regional election, has been at the center of market fears that aid could be delayed. Mr. Strauss-Kahn, who visited Berlin with European Central Bank President Jean-Claude Trichet, urged Germany to speed up the process.

"Every day which is lost is a day where the situation is going worse and worse, not only in Greece but in the whole European Union," Mr. Strauss-Kahn said. "It can also have consequences more far away. We have to face a difficult situation. We are confident we can fix it."

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eugreecec0428
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German lawmaker Jürgen Trittin said IMF chief Dominique Strauss-Kahn said the rescue plan was likely to total between €100 billion and €120 billion.
eugreecec0428
eugreecec0428

Mr. Trichet added more pressure, saying a fast decision is extremely important. "That calls for a fast procedure in the German parliament," he said at the joint news conference. German Finance Minister Wolfgang Schäuble said the German parliament would be able to vote on a draft bill enabling German participation on Monday if the IMF, EU and Greek government could agree on a series of harsh austerity plans imposed on Greece to shore up the country's high debt and budget deficits.

Pending an agreement at the weekend, "we would be in the position to decide on a draft bill on Monday," Mr. Schäuble said. The draft bill asks the parliament to empower the government to guarantee a €8.4 billion loan to Greece this year, while leaving the exact amounts for next year and for 2012 blank.

While Mr. Strauss-Kahn said it is currently "impossible" to say how much the total aid package for Greece will be worth, Green Party lawmaker Trittin said the IMF chief gave an estimate in his meeting with parliamentarians. "We are facing a situation in Greece where there seems to be a consolidation that need will in the end be in the range of between €100 billion and €120 billion," Mr. Trittin said. "The €45 billion which is talked of at present is just the start."
Europe's Debt Crisis

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Growing Apart

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* Sortable Table: Who Pays What for Greece

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Norbert Barthle, lawmaker and budget spokesman for the ruling Christian Democratic Union, said after the meeting that the ECB and the IMF rejected suggestions that banks should help contribute to the Greek rescue program because this won't lead to the desired result. "The aim is to create confidence and credibility," Mr. Barthle quoted them as saying.

The IMF also indicated that Greece essentially would be taken from the market for the three-year duration of the debt-reduction program in a move to make it somewhat more independent from the market. The Greek government Friday tapped the aid package pledged by euro-zone members and the IMF. Germany's portion of the euro zone's €30 billion aid would be an €8.4 billion loan. Berlin has yet to set into motion a legislative process that would allow the government to guarantee these loans state-owned KfW Banking Group would make to Greece.
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* Crisis Spreads in Europe
* Greek Crisis Poses ECB Risk
* News Hub: S&P Downgrades Greek Debt
* Heard: Unpalatable Choices for ECB, Greece
* Vote: Will Greece default on its debt?
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Mr. Trichet also dismissed the notion that there could be any similar situation in Portugal or in Spain, saying Greece is a very special case. He said Greek's program has to be courageous.

The Greek government recently imposed cuts on public-sector salaries, raising strong opposition from unions, which have since staged several strikes and street protests. A Greek cabinet minister, who spoke on the condition of anonymity Wednesday, said the demands for other wage cuts would be difficult for the country to see through.

"As far as private-sector salaries are concerned we said that a cut would further diminish the buying power of private-sector employees as those salaries are already very low," this minister said. "A cut would also lower social security contributions which will hurt pension fund and government coffers. "We are not dismissing or rejecting anything. We are talking in good faith," the minister said.
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Old 05-05-2010, 01:42 PM   #33
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Banks getting fire bombed.... pregnant woman and a few others were killed....

http://www.canada.com/business/fp/De...609/story.html

http://www.gettyimages.com/Search/Se...ssetType=image





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Greek anti-austerity march turns violent; Three die as bank firebombed

Parliament debates austerity, govt urges swift passage


ATHENS -- Greeks protesting government austerity measures threw petrol bombs at a bank branch in Athens on Wednesday, killing three people including a pregnant woman, in the worst violence to hit the country since riots in 2008.

Tens of thousands of Greeks took to the streets of the capital and masked youths clashed with police in riot gear, who responded with steady rounds of tear gas and flash bombs which clouded the blocks surrounding parliament.

The violence is a blow to Prime Minister George Papandreou's plans to push through tough budget cuts demanded by the European Union and International Monetary Fund in exchange for a 110 billion euro aid package unveiled on Sunday.

A female and two male employees of a Marfin bank branch died of asphyxiation after protesters broke the windows of a commercial building on central Stadiou Avenue and tossed in Molotov cocktails.

Marfin bank officials told Reuters the female victim had been pregnant. Firemen had to restrain a distraught elderly woman outside the bank, who wept and cried "my child, my child."

Mr. Papandreou, speaking in parliament, expressed shock at the deaths and vowed to bring those responsible to justice.

"We are deeply shocked by the unjust death of these three people, our fellow citizens, who were victims of a murderous act," he said.

He also defended his austerity plans, which foresee 30-billion euros in savings mainly from cuts in wages and pensions, and said the government would not abandon its drive to save the country from ruin.

"We took these decisions to save the country," he said. "The alternative would be bankruptcy."

Parliament later began a debate on the austerity bill. Opposition conservatives are refusing to support it, but the government, which enjoys a comfortable majority, hopes to pass it by the end of the week.

"It is absolutely necessary to agree the law in parliament in the coming days," Finance Minister George Papaconstantinou said.

Police put the march at roughly 30,000 people. But witnesses said there were more than 50,000 -- easily the biggest protest since Mr. Papandreou took office last October and launched efforts to reform an economy that is uncompetitive and plagued by corruption.

Hundreds of black-hooded anarchists roamed the streets, smashing store windows and hacking chunks of marble off buildings to throw at police.

Although they were behind the worst of the violence, other protesters joined them in pelting police with bottles. Large crowds shouting "Thieves!" repeatedly tried to storm parliament, reaching the steps leading to the entrance before being pushed back by police.

Presidential guards, who usually stand immobile in front of the assembly building, left their posts as the clashes worsened.

The marchers had dispersed by late afternoon, leaving streets littered with burnt out garbage containers. Dozens of shop windows were smashed, including a bookstore and McDonald's restaurant near the burned bank. Two other buildings besides the bank were set on fire.

Police said eight people had been injured in the violence and eight arrested for carrying weapons and resisting authorities.

The EU and IMF aid was intended to calm markets and give the government time to overhaul the economy and bring down a yawning deficit that totalled 13.6% of national economic output last year.

But the euro currency and Greek assets have been pummelled on concern that social unrest could thwart government plans to push through the measures, and on fears that Greece's woes could spread to other euro zone countries such as Portugal and Spain.

In past months anti-austerity protests had been fairly peaceful, but Wednesday's violence was similar to that seen in the 2008 riots, which broke out when police killed a teenager and dragged on for weeks.

The march consisted mainly of public and private sector workers staging a joint strike that grounded flights, shut shops and brought public transport to a standstill.

Greece's main public sector union ADEDY denounced the violence that had led to the deaths and said it would hold further walkouts next week.

"These actions have nothing to do with our movement and are undermining our struggle," said Ilias Vrettakos, deputy head of the union.

"The big participation in the strike today and the crowds that flooded the streets of Athens...send a message to the government: We will not let the EU and the IMF measures pass."

Apostolos Kolokythopoulos, a 70-year old pensioner who lives on less than 1,000 euros a month, said the walkouts were needed to force the government to change course.

"I agree with the strikes. If people don't react, don't protest, how will things change?" he said.

Centre-left daily Eleftherotypia warned young Greeks would rise up if nothing was done to give them hope of a future.

"If nothing is done, the explosion of the angry and the disappointed will sweep everything away," the paper said. "Have we forgotten December 2008 and become complacent?"

© Thomson Reuters 2010
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:06 PM   #34
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Whether you 'pray' or not, the Euro is already in trouble (too many economical unbalances within its members). If things get worse, The European Union will probably dissolve and all those funny monopoly Euros will be junk.
And btw, the dollar, once again, escapes a 'run on' at least for now.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #35
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Doing drugs and having sex... oh wow big deal. Well it is actually a HUGE deal.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:11 PM   #36
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i hope to buy a few greek slaves from this crisis.
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Old 05-05-2010, 02:23 PM   #37
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aww sh&t. the USofA can bail them out...85 billion is a drop in the bucket for us... Lets go Obama, get that check book out

EDIT: I mean credit card....
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:50 PM   #38
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Dow Falls Below 10,000 Mark
The Last Time the Dow Closed Below 10,000 Was Oct. 26, 2004
By JOE BEL BRUNO
AP Business Writer

Oct. 6, 2008-

NEW YORK (AP) -- Wall Street suffered through another traumatic session Monday, with the Dow Jones industrials plunging as much as 800 points and setting a new record for a one-day point drop as investors despaired that the credit crisis would take a heavy toll around the world. The Dow also fell below 10,000 for the first time since 2004, and all the major indexes fell more than 7 percent.

The catalyst for the selling was the growing realization that the Bush administration's $700 billion rescue plan and steps taken by other governments won't work quickly to unfreeze the credit markets. Global banks, hobbled by wrong-way bets on mortgage securities, remain starved for cash as credit has dried up.

That sent stocks spiraling downward in the U.S., Europe and Asia, and drove investors to sink money into the relative safety of U.S. government debt. Fears about a global recession also caused oil to drop below $90 a barrel; and the benchmark index that gauges fear in the market jumped to the highest level in its 18-year history.

How Is the Economy Treating You? Tell ABC News

"The fact is people are scared and the only thing they're doing is selling," said Ryan Detrick, senior technical strategist at Schaeffer's Investment Research. "Investors are cleaning out portfolios and getting rid of everything because nothing seems to be working."

The selling was so extreme that only 67 stocks rose on the NYSE -- and 3,155 dropped. That's a telling sign considering the stock market is considered a leading economic indicator, with investors tending to buy and sell based on where they believe the economy will be in six to nine months.

Monday's steep decline on Wall Street indicates that investors are becoming more convinced that the country is leading a prolonged economic crisis that is spreading to other nations. Over the weekend, governments across Europe rushed to prop up failing banks, while the governments of Germany, Ireland and Greece also said they would guarantee bank deposits.

As the United States tries to repair its battered banking system, the German government and financial industry agreed on a $68 billion bailout for commercial-property lender Hypo Real Estate Holding AG. And France's BNP Paribas agreed to acquire a 75 percent stake in Fortis's Belgium bank after a government rescue failed.

The Fed also took fresh steps to help ease credit markets. The central bank said Monday it will begin paying interest on commercial banks' reserves and will expand its loan program to squeezed banks.

Joseph V. Battipaglia, chief investment officer at Ryan Beck & Co., said government intervention certainly might help. However, he believes investors are sensing that what's happening in the economy is a shift in the extent to which consumers and businesses take on debt, a change that will take years to play out.

"This is a global deleveraging of many economies," he said. "It might appear that you're going into the abyss where the economy grinds to a halt and the financial system goes into complete disarray. But, what the market is really reading here is that this is a global phenomenon, and when you delever like this, it is a process that takes a very long period of time measured in years, not quarters."

That, he said, is being reflected in major stock indexes being repriced significantly lower. In late afternoon trading, the Dow Jones industrial average fell 800 points, then recovered slightly in erratic trading to a loss of 764.38, or 7.40 percent, to 9,561.00, dropping below 10,000 for the first time since Oct. 29, 2004. The Dow surpassed its previous record for a one-day point decline -- 778, which the blue chips suffered a week ago when investors feared the bailout package might not pass Congress.
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Old 05-06-2010, 01:57 PM   #39
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I'm going abroad to Prague. This would be nice I feel evil now.
The decline in the value of the Euro isn't going to effect the cost of things in Prague since they're not part of the EU (they use the Czech Crown).
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Old 05-06-2010, 02:03 PM   #40
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Link to live riot cam: http://www.aftonbladet.se/webbtv/nyh...icle7086788.ab

There was more action earlier today. It's been interesting. Still some fires burning, occasional tear gas being fired, etc...
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