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This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 07-17-2012, 11:14 PM   #10901
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I'm sorry, but do you think that the cheaper lugs are made of play-doh? It's all the same crap made by a handful of companies, and marked up by a list of middle men. A piece of steel with a 17mm hex head, and 45mm threaded shaft. Not much too it. The only diff is usually the coating or plating, for which i care not. If you wanna pay more for that, by all means... I just paint em with tremclad or rustoleum.

oh, and btw, I don't want cheap ebay stuff, I wanna pay LESS than eBay. Just to be clear.
do you know about the different kinds and grades of steel, and the differing ways it can be formed into the needed shape?
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:30 PM   #10902
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I'm sorry, but do you think that the cheaper lugs are made of play-doh? It's all the same crap made by a handful of companies, and marked up by a list of middle men. A piece of steel with a 17mm hex head, and 45mm threaded shaft. Not much too it. The only diff is usually the coating or plating, for which i care not. If you wanna pay more for that, by all means... I just paint em with tremclad or rustoleum.

oh, and btw, I don't want cheap ebay stuff, I wanna pay LESS than eBay. Just to be clear.
If you cheap out on metalwork, expect things to fail. I ventured into gunsmithing a few years ago which brought with it a wealth of knowledge about metals. If you buy cheap expect it to be either too hard and shatter, or too soft and deform/lose tightness.

We can't tell you what you must buy, but there is a very real difference that expends beyond price. Even if the material is the same formula, one needs to look at homogeneity, formation methods, etc.
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Old 07-17-2012, 11:51 PM   #10903
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I'm sorry, but do you think that the cheaper lugs are made of play-doh? It's all the same crap made by a handful of companies, and marked up by a list of middle men. A piece of steel with a 17mm hex head, and 45mm threaded shaft. Not much too it. The only diff is usually the coating or plating, for which i care not. If you wanna pay more for that, by all means... I just paint em with tremclad or rustoleum.

oh, and btw, I don't want cheap ebay stuff, I wanna pay LESS than eBay. Just to be clear.
Alright if ya wanna be a dick about it go right ahead. There are different grades of steal. Go ahead and buy the cheap **** I wish you luck. Someone posts on here to warn you about possible risks and you trash them? Real nice. There are documented cases of wheel spacer setups failing, some with fatal consequences. But by all means if you wanna be a dick to me for mentioning you might wanna look into a higher quality bolt then go right ahead.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:27 AM   #10904
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oh, and btw, I don't want cheap ebay stuff, I wanna pay LESS than eBay. Just to be clear.
This really is what e46fanatics has come to? Wanting to pay less than even eBay and expecting a higher quality?! Get real man, go drive a Kia.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:40 AM   #10905
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Didn't want the block off?
I actually considered it but I didn't realize that the screw holes don't actually go into the bumper. If I had known that, I would have done the block off. Oh well. I like the plate on my car... now just gotta get a new headlight cover.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:41 AM   #10906
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I dropped it off at the shop for new window regulator, water pump, and oil grommets..
Lol you're sig says you had a '99 STS... I had a '00. You find yourself missing yours at all? I miss mine every day.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:45 AM   #10907
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If you cheap out on metalwork, expect things to fail. I ventured into gunsmithing a few years ago which brought with it a wealth of knowledge about metals. If you buy cheap expect it to be either too hard and shatter, or too soft and deform/lose tightness.

We can't tell you what you must buy, but there is a very real difference that expends beyond price. Even if the material is the same formula, one needs to look at homogeneity, formation methods, etc.
So should i send every bolt to the lab to have it tested? If i buy a brand name bolt, does that ensure the quality is good? I doubt the guys charging 100 for a set of lugs are paying more than manufacture them than the guys charging 50. But hey, if you wanna believe the BS, by all means...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Crestwood1001 View Post
Alright if ya wanna be a dick about it go right ahead. There are different grades of steal. Go ahead and buy the cheap **** I wish you luck. Someone posts on here to warn you about possible risks and you trash them? Real nice. There are documented cases of wheel spacer setups failing, some with fatal consequences. But by all means if you wanna be a dick to me for mentioning you might wanna look into a higher quality bolt then go right ahead.
You were being a dick, i was just being a bigger dick.

You automatically assume that ebay bolts are cheap and therefore, are not good. I never said i wanted an incorrect grade of steel for my bolts. The cheapest bolts on ebay are sold by a Canadian shop about an hour outside toronto. he's selling grade 10.9 steel bolts. he has 100% positive feedback, and has to comply to Canadian laws regarding steel grade labeling and all that junk. Would say his product is about as trustworthy as anybody elses.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-EXTENDED-C...#ht_3803wt_925

Anyways, since there is no financial incentive for people to use the wrong grade steel for bolts, and since ive been buying cheap bolts and nuts for years without problem, i don't see them being a real problem. The markups are just larger because its an enthusiast market.

With regards to catastrophic failures, no doubt in my mind it's user error. If you don't own a torque wrench, or buy spacers/wheels that are not hubcentric, you're an idiot. The bolts didn't fail, you did. It's not like people put huge horizontal stresses on their wheels anyways, unless you're hittin the track.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:49 AM   #10908
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This really is what e46fanatics has come to? Wanting to pay less than even eBay and expecting a higher quality?! Get real man, go drive a Kia.
Nah, japanese only. Only driving this cuz my mom gave it to me. Bought her an acura, she don't need 2 cars. Gave my honda to my bro. Goin back to honda after this one, you won't have to worry bout me after a year or so.
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Old 07-18-2012, 12:53 AM   #10909
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Old 07-18-2012, 01:44 AM   #10910
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:16 AM   #10911
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That's fvcking sick.
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:30 AM   #10912
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So should i send every bolt to the lab to have it tested? If i buy a brand name bolt, does that ensure the quality is good? I doubt the guys charging 100 for a set of lugs are paying more than manufacture them than the guys charging 50. But hey, if you wanna believe the BS, by all means...



You were being a dick, i was just being a bigger dick.

You automatically assume that ebay bolts are cheap and therefore, are not good. I never said i wanted an incorrect grade of steel for my bolts. The cheapest bolts on ebay are sold by a Canadian shop about an hour outside toronto. he's selling grade 10.9 steel bolts. he has 100% positive feedback, and has to comply to Canadian laws regarding steel grade labeling and all that junk. Would say his product is about as trustworthy as anybody elses.

http://www.ebay.ca/itm/10-EXTENDED-C...#ht_3803wt_925

Anyways, since there is no financial incentive for people to use the wrong grade steel for bolts, and since ive been buying cheap bolts and nuts for years without problem, i don't see them being a real problem. The markups are just larger because its an enthusiast market.

With regards to catastrophic failures, no doubt in my mind it's user error. If you don't own a torque wrench, or buy spacers/wheels that are not hubcentric, you're an idiot. The bolts didn't fail, you did. It's not like people put huge horizontal stresses on their wheels anyways, unless you're hittin the track.
I spent $20k on my car, spend about $4000 a year in gas, and $2500/year in maintenance. I can afford to buy lugs that are made in the US or Germany for a small premium over Chinese manufactured pieces of crap; it's not like it's a purchase you'll have to make more than once every few years. If I couldn't afford that, I wouldn't be driving this car (or any car for that matter).

You shouldn't have every bolt lab tested. You should buy from someome that you can trust to give random checks for QC

And with a few cents multiplied over thousands of units, there's plenty of financial incentive for a shop to use the wrong steel for bolts. Or for a manufacturer to cut corners. Just because they say it's grade 10.9, doesn't mean they aren't lying. Chinese manufacturers arent held to the same quality standards as others. There are many steps in the manufacturing process where corners can be cut. For example, one can have shafts that weren't formed properly, leading to a finished bolt that can perhaps shear easier than others. Don't be so naive as to think that just because a random shop is selling a few bolts with an engraved number, that they can't possibly have been made poorly. Even if the chance of failure is 2 sigma, I would rather just spend the extra $50 or whatever and buy a brand I trust

Or better yet, do a stud conversiom
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Old 07-18-2012, 02:36 AM   #10913
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Bought some 4300k Osrams from retrofit source, an oil change kit.......and a SES light. :/ p0444 code. New adventure awaits. Any suggestions?
Now why would you go and buy an SES light? That's a foolish purchase
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Old 07-18-2012, 03:01 AM   #10914
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I spent $20k on my car, spend about $4000 a year in gas, and $2500/year in maintenance. I can afford to buy lugs that are made in the US or Germany for a small premium over Chinese manufactured pieces of crap; it's not like it's a purchase you'll have to make more than once every few years. If I couldn't afford that, I wouldn't be driving this car (or any car for that matter).

You shouldn't have every bolt lab tested. You should buy from someome that you can trust to give random checks for QC

And with a few cents multiplied over thousands of units, there's plenty of financial incentive for a shop to use the wrong steel for bolts. Or for a manufacturer to cut corners. Just because they say it's grade 10.9, doesn't mean they aren't lying. Chinese manufacturers arent held to the same quality standards as others. There are many steps in the manufacturing process where corners can be cut. For example, one can have shafts that weren't formed properly, leading to a finished bolt that can perhaps shear easier than others. Don't be so naive as to think that just because a random shop is selling a few bolts with an engraved number, that they can't possibly have been made poorly. Even if the chance of failure is 2 sigma, I would rather just spend the extra $50 or whatever and buy a brand I trust (probably BMW unless I need extended lugs)
That was my point exactly. Tell me, who should i trust then? Why should a large company be trusted over a small company? More often than not, they buy their product from the same build house, its just rebranded. And i DO need extended bolts, so that puts BMW out. Although i rarely buy stuff from stealerships anyways, cept for integral parts (VCG, transmission filter and gasket, oil seperator, etc etc). My point is, ive yet to see a sub par lug. Meanwhile, people have no problem running a fram oil filter, old ass brake fluid, doing 25k km oil changes, and driving around with bald under inflated tires. But i get heat for lug nuts.

Anyways, i believe in buying quality. Just seems ridiculous to me that people think lug bolts vary so much in quality. They hold the rims against the hub, they do not bear the brunt of the weight. And bolts/studs usually snap because of over-torquing. And you can usually hear creaking from a corner that has broken or loose lugs long before your wheel can come flying off. I check torque and tire pressure regularly, and in my 30 years and a lot of cars, ive only had 1 stud break, 0 bolts break, and had one shop fail to torque my dads bolts correctly, and I caught it immediately cuz of the obvious noise. Completely loose, and that's an S550 4matic. Ain't a light car.

Anyways, id like to see a thread or blog of someones lugs failing and resulting in anything considering halfway serious. We'll assume, regardless of whats written, that that person used sub par lugs. Hubcentric rims and spacers required though, and multiple failed lugs or studs. Anybody?
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:28 AM   #10915
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Lol you're sig says you had a '99 STS... I had a '00. You find yourself missing yours at all? I miss mine every day.
Yes, I absolutely loved that car. Probably the most comfortable vehicle I've ever been in. Unfortunately it was wrapped around a tree about a year and a half ago (will post pics from my phone). When I get promoted at my job to "baller status" I will buy another one as an every day driver.
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Old 07-18-2012, 09:30 AM   #10916
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:20 AM   #10917
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Damn, what happened to that car?




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Old 07-18-2012, 10:28 AM   #10918
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Damn, what happened to that car?
Short version: Mom dodged a deer on the twistys after picking up my drunk friend and I. She hit a tree (we were lucky, if we would have went off the road anywhere else it would have pretty much been game over). Mom and I sustained cuts and bruises (I was in the back seat). Friend was in the passenger seat...I.C.U. for 3 days, Intermediate care for a week, and various types of therapy for about a year. He is fine now but just has a shotty memory. You may feel bad for him but the accident completely turned his life around, he quit smoking and drinking, and has gone back to college to finish his degree also and is an S2000 fanatic..
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:29 AM   #10919
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wow....... well of course I'm glad to hear that all three of you are okay after that! I guess it's a good thing he turned his life around, but is the short term memory now permanent?
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Old 07-18-2012, 10:36 AM   #10920
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wow....... well of course I'm glad to hear that all three of you are okay after that! I guess it's a good thing he turned his life around, but is the short term memory now permanent?
nobody really knows, the brain is such a strange thing. He remembers everything since the accident but we'll be hangin out and I'll say "hey, remember when......blah blah blah...." (something before the accident). Sometimes he remembers and sometimes he doesn't. He remembers some stuff like the time he put a cigarette out on a hooker's forehead because she wouldn't shut up (yes this is a true story, and in his defense he warned her before he did it, "if you don't shut up, i'm going to put this cigarette out on your forehead" is what he told her)
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