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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 05-11-2010, 10:25 PM   #1
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New AR Builds Underway

I finally pulled the trigger and started going to work on my new dual-AR project. I am going to convert my DPMS AP4 carbine to a Mk12 SPR. The barrel will come off and I am going to install a Noveske 18" SPR or DPMS Mini-SASS 18" barrel. Add a free-float picatinny forend and a mid-range scope/optic, and the rifle will basically be done. All I need for this build is the barrel, gas block, gas tube and forend. Then, I have to decide which scope I'm going to slap on it. I still can't decide.


In addition to that, I also went ahead and bought a Rock River Arms LAR-15 lower today along with a parts kit and a Magpul MIAD grip kit. This is going to be part of my PDW build. It's going to be a free float Vltor CASV-M, Noveske 7.5" Diplomat barrel, and some yet-to-be-selected mini/micro red dot with BUIS.
It'll look similar to this:










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Old 05-12-2010, 12:14 AM   #2
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Should be a fun project/thread!
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Old 05-12-2010, 06:28 AM   #3
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awesome, I have thought about doing a SBR. I have a RRA lower that needs an upper.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:19 AM   #4
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I have absolutely no idea what most of what you posted actually means, and I can't look it up because I'm at work.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:05 AM   #5
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I have absolutely no idea what most of what you posted actually means, and I can't look it up because I'm at work.
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Old 05-12-2010, 10:12 AM   #6
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An SPR is a Special Purpose Rifle. SPRs are multi-role rifles that can be used for direct combat engagements and CQB, while also being capable of long range accuracy for expedient sniper/counter sniper operation. SPRs are chambered in a main combat caliber like 5.56mm, have an intermediate/mid-range scope (1.1-8x, 1.5-6x, 1.8-10x, 2.5-8x, 2.5-10x, 3.5-10x, you get the idea..) designed to be used at intermediate ranges of 500-800yds, have a tight twist barrel (1:7 is best, but 1:8 works), and a free-float barrel to help with accuracy. The barrel will ideally be 18", but 16-20" is acceptable. The rifle must be 1MOA or sub-MOA capable. It fills the gap between a standard combat rifle and a dedicated sniper rifle. An example of this rifle is the US Navy Mk12.

DPMS Mk12




standard carbine (top
Mk 12 SPR variant (bottom- note the longer barrel and scope)







A PDW is a Personal Defense Weapon. These are usually smaller submachine guns like the MP5K/MP5K-PDW, KAC-PDW, H&K MP7A1 ( ). They have very short barrels and are designed to be compact, concealable, and able to be used inside of very tight quarters, like inside a vehicle. My concept for my PDW is actually going to be a PSD (protective security detail) concept. The rifle will maneuver and feel like a submachine gun. The shorter barrel, high magazine capacity, short sight radius (if I use the Back Up Iron Sights (BUIS) ), lighter weight, and highly maneuverable for use in a vehicle or when clearing rooms in very confined CQB (close-quarter battle) situations.

Knight Arms Co. KAC-PDW

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Last edited by Reedo302; 05-16-2010 at 11:33 AM.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:03 PM   #7
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i kind of like the 416 pdw, but the stubby buffer would be fun to try to work with, especially with a 2-4k upper... let me know what you think of the mk12, i really want one and was debating on the mod 1 with a leupold 3-9x40 or wait for the mr556

btw sbr ar15 ftw, any length and almost any caliber at your disposal
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:31 PM   #8
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I decided that I'm going to pony up the extra $160 for the Noveske SPR 18" barrel over the DPMS. I did some more reading, and I want the 1:7 twist rate. Also, Noveske utilizes polygonal rifling, which increases barrel pressure due to a better seal. This should really give a boost to the velocity for long-range accuracy. My Mk12/SPR will be mostly custom. I'll probably eventually slap on a Giselle trigger or a JP two-stage.

As for the PDW/PSD build, the initial one will be 5.56mm, however I'll probably wind up building a second upper in the future with the same specifications and chamber it in 6.8SPC to compare with the 5.56mm.
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Old 05-12-2010, 04:34 PM   #9
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ive heard alot of good about woa barrels too, noveske is the best barrel period though, i think the 6.8 would be nice for a pdw-if my m4-2000 was 6.8 instead of 5.56 id be running one now
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Old 05-30-2010, 08:54 PM   #10
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Well, after talking to William Graves with GPS Defense (sniperschool.com), which used to be the McMillan Sniper School, He advised me that DPMS made their Mk12 5.56mm barrel to his specifications, and that it was originally custom ordered for him and some Navy SEALs he was training. Come to find out, William has the very first production model DPMS Mk12 rifle, and he's been getting 0.5 MOA from Mk262 77gr projectiles, and they're still penetrating 1/2" plywood boards at 900m!! He HIGHLY recommended that I look into the DPMS Mk12 18" barrel. At $179, it's a hell of a good price. I figured that since it's such a good deal and sub-MOA capable, I would have to give it a shot. So, I ordered one. DPMS said it'll be 30-60 days lead time to get one.

In the mean time, I sold my TA01 ACOG this week, so now I have $600 to fart around with. I'm most likely going to buy the EOTech XPS2-0 sight:





I considered the Vortex SPARC as a budget alternative. It's about the same size as the Aimpoint T1 Micro, but it only costs $199. I like Vortex's standards for great customer service and a lifetime warranty, but there's something about a $200 Chinese-made red dot collimator sight that just rubs me the wrong way. Ideally I'd like to get an Aimpoint T1 Micro, but those are so insanely expensive, it's disgusting. The cheapest I could find one was $579. Compare that to $440 for the EOTech.


I'm waiting on a large order from DPMS for parts for both rifles. The other problem is that Noveske is still out of stock of the 7.5" Diplomat barrels. I don't know when they'll get those back in. Hopefully soon. The EOTech is going on the PDW build.

As for the MK12 SPR build, I'm waiting for the Viper PST scopes to finally come out. Should only be a couple more weeks. I have a 4-16x on order right now for my M21A1 build, but I'm gonna have to pick up the 2.5-10x44 for the SPR build. Then, I'll mount it with my red dot sight on an ARMS #35 setup with a tactical ring cap to mount the dot. That, or I'll just do the LaRue Tactical SPR mount with J-point Side-mount option. Still to be decided.
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Old 05-30-2010, 09:23 PM   #11
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Reedo, there are the XPS-0 and the XPS-1....waht're the differences? I'd be picking between the Eotech micro or the Aimpoint Micro T-1/H-1.
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Old 05-30-2010, 11:41 PM   #12
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XPS2 - non night vision compatible
XPS3 - night vision compatible
(first number indicates number of buttons on the back of the sight- third button being NV compatibility button)

-0 1moa center dot/65moa outer ring
-1 1moa center dot
-2 1moa center dot x2 for bullet drop/65moa outer ring




So XPS3-1 is NV compatible with 1moa center dot, while XPS2-0 is non-NV compatible with 1moa/65moa reticle.


I'm pretty sure I'm going to be getting the XPS. I want a bigger reticle. A simple 2moa reticle from an Aimpoint is very small, and I think it certainly lends itself to increased target acquisition times. There is also concern that with the Aimpoints, you need to have some close approximation of a cheek weld to the stock to make sure you can actually see the reticle. EOTech boasts that you can be off a bit more to different angles and still have visibility of the reticle with no parallax.
The XPS has solved a couple of problems that EOTechs have experienced or complaints that previous users have voiced. They're supposed to be the pinnacle of EOTech technology right now.

I have heard so many good things about Aimpoint T-1s, and I think it'd be a great investment. The H-1 is also a good option. The only differences are that the T-1 is Night vision compatible and is waterproof to 80ft, whereas the H-1 is not NV compatible and is waterproof to only 15ft, and it has white lettering on it. So, if you're not a Navy SEAL or Miami/Dade SWAT, the H-1 is the more reasonable alternative, with a cost differential of about $60 (H-1 being less). Both Aimpoints have a 50,000 hour life on a battery, which is really nice. The major advantage that Aimpoints have is their battery life.

In contrast, the XPS will go about 500-600 hours on the one battery. BUT, the EOTechs are a holographic sight that have a much different reticle that puts out a significantly higher amount of electricity, increasing the load on the battery. In contrast, the Aimpoints are collimator sights that have a very small electric load, basically allowing them to be left on permanently for 2,083 days (5.7years) without a battery change. Conversely, an EOTech would theoretically run out after only 25 days, should the 8hr auto-shutoff stop working.

It's all about preference. I know that if I get XPS, I'll most likely go get the Micro up the road for my next build (6.8SPC model).
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Old 06-01-2010, 02:56 PM   #13
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I slapped on that exact EOTech on my LMT and love it. Ordered a LaRue mount and saving up some coin for a 3X Magnifier.
Ya battery life is short but to me I can prob afford to change a $5 battery every 6 months or so since I don't go to the range that often. So for a big reticle and shorter battery life I think thats a good compromise.
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:47 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by M3_Chris View Post
I slapped on that exact EOTech on my LMT and love it. Ordered a LaRue mount and saving up some coin for a 3X Magnifier.
Ya battery life is short but to me I can prob afford to change a $5 battery every 6 months or so since I don't go to the range that often. So for a big reticle and shorter battery life I think thats a good compromise.
Is there a Larue mount that works for the XPS series? I didn't see any, and I want one.

As for the battery life and usage, what you said is exactly why I'm going with the XPS. I will probably run out a lot faster, as I tend to shoot more, but I'd rather make the sacrifice to get the larger and faster reticle. I also always have lots of CR123 batteries lying around, because I own so many lights that use them.
The 1MOA dot also lends itself to better long range accuracy, and since the optic is holographic, the reticle doesn't get bigger when you slap on the magnifier. That's a nice plus.
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Old 06-01-2010, 04:50 PM   #15
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I have the same grip... Love it!

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Old 06-01-2010, 05:36 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
Is there a Larue mount that works for the XPS series? I didn't see any, and I want one.

As for the battery life and usage, what you said is exactly why I'm going with the XPS. I will probably run out a lot faster, as I tend to shoot more, but I'd rather make the sacrifice to get the larger and faster reticle. I also always have lots of CR123 batteries lying around, because I own so many lights that use them.
The 1MOA dot also lends itself to better long range accuracy, and since the optic is holographic, the reticle doesn't get bigger when you slap on the magnifier. That's a nice plus.
Here is the LaRue EOTech QD Mount LT-110. The extra picatinny rail on the back gets your magnifier and XPS in perfect co-witness.




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Old 06-01-2010, 06:12 PM   #17
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Oh snap. Sweetness.
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Old 06-06-2010, 12:06 AM   #18
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Just got a couple Magpul B.A.D. Levers delivered. Installed one on my SPR build. Other one is still awaiting the PDW build.
By the way, these things are FANTASTIC!












Oh, and a recent check of my checking account shows that the BATFE has deposited my NFA payment check. Should be a couple more weeks at the most...hopefully.
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Old 06-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #19
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Just got a couple Magpul B.A.D. Levers delivered. Installed one on my SPR build. Other one is still awaiting the PDW build.
By the way, these things are FANTASTIC!












Oh, and a recent check of my checking account shows that the BATFE has deposited my NFA payment check. Should be a couple more weeks at the most...hopefully.
Looks like it would work well, but I'd def have to get used to it.
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:34 AM   #20
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The DPMS and Magpul fairy visited me. Got some cool stuff in.

DPMS:
rifle length gas tube, A3 upper, barrel nuts, replacement pins, flash hider, ejection port cover assembly, oversized forward assist, mil-spec carbine receiver extension tube, BCM Gunfighter large charging handle, Badger Ordnance NAVSPEC Mk12 gas block.












MAGPUL:
New 30rd window PMAGs (4), 20rd PMAGS in FDE (4), ASAP plates (2), MS2 Sling in FDE, MOE rear stock (mil spec), Art of the Tactical Carbine DVD set, "Twinkie, Twinkie, Cupcake" t-shirt.

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