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Old 05-14-2010, 07:45 AM   #61
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Please let the Jordan comparisons stop. I could care less what a player does in the regular season. It is the playoffs that count. You can now throw Lebron in the Dirk category. They won the MVP and went into a cave during playoffs to hide. I dont care how many points he scored, the triple double, or any of that. He has put a city and team on his back and in the most telling stage of his career dropped them off and took a plane to NY or where ever he was thinking about going instead of playing. Even during the Jordan era, some of the best players like Barley lost but didnt quit. There is a big difference. I respect all those guys because they came to fight even against Jordan. Last night and the game before, Lebron quite. Say what you want about Kobe even, ive never seen him quit.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:48 AM   #62
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Please let the Jordan comparisons stop. I could care less what a player does in the regular season. It is the playoffs that count. You can now throw Lebron in the Dirk category. They won the MVP and went into a cave during playoffs to hide. I dont care how many points he scored, the triple double, or any of that. He has put a city and team on his back and in the most telling stage of his career dropped them off and took a plane to NY or where ever he was thinking about going instead of playing. Even during the Jordan era, some of the best players like Barley lost but didnt quit. There is a big difference. I respect all those guys because they came to fight even against Jordan. Last night and the game before, Lebron quite. Say what you want about Kobe even, ive never seen him quit.
There is definitely some truth to this.

Sounds like the missing part of the equation is not the supporting cast, different city, etc, it is heart.
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:52 AM   #63
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wrong wrong wrong

lebron will win the championships once he is on a better team.

he obviously was depleted because he couldn't do it all himself.

how could you bring up kobe and MJ when they had a stellar supporting staff not to mention a strong bench

lebron has NONE of that. he's like the patrick ewing - all talent - no championship due to a mediocre team.

coco you're way to hard on lebron - he will get the trophy soon enough and smash it on your face

then put it in the butt of reiger guy - then smash it on the heads of the mods on this forum.

then the new people too because they buy high mileage used bmws

Better team.. are u fkn serious man?

best record 2 years running? 60+ wins..
it dosnt get much better than that...


im a huge Lakers fan... and dont like LeBron..
but
he is still very young, got plenty of time to improve.. we havnt seen the best of him yet i believe..

There is alot of pressure placed on this one guy..
I mean he whole team failed...
and we turn around and say "LeBron James chokes"
its a team game, therefore we must make the whole team accountable..

there is deff something going on at the Cavs..
they should be going back to back this year...

instead Lakers have got to be favourites now

although Magic are playing some real good basketball atm!

will be interesting



You know what popped into my mind when watching the game at the end when Cavs stopped playing..
if LeBron is as good as he says he is, he would have pulled a Reggie Miller and gone 8 points in 30 seconds(or whatever it was) to win the game
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Old 05-14-2010, 07:55 AM   #64
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Man of the NBA fans on this forum....who watched this game?

no sense of urgency, no killer instinct, and after it was over he was so blah
about the loss as if he didnt care?
100% agree with you. I was just waiting to see if LeBron was going to be unsportsmanlike at the end of the game like what he did last year after the loss to Orlando in the playoffs but I was pleased to see that he stuck around this time after the game to congratulate the winning team.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:02 AM   #65
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100% agree with you. I was just waiting to see if LeBron was going to be unsportsmanlike at the end of the game like what he did last year after the loss to Orlando in the playoffs but I was pleased to see that he stuck around this time after the game to congratulate the winning team.
I Agree. It was good that he stuck around this time. Bottom line is some teams are only made for the regular season and others are constructed for the post season.

Lebron will get a ring someday.
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:34 AM   #66
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Lebron is an amazing player, but I too noticed the lack of effort. There was definitely something wrong with Lebron. I doubt he's lost his drive for basketball. He could possibly be hurt or even have a conflict of interest in his organization. Perhaps this was him proving that the team is nothing without him. I bet we've all had similar situations in our place of employment. However, that's not the mindset of a champion.


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Old 05-14-2010, 08:41 AM   #67
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Old 05-14-2010, 08:57 AM   #68
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Why on earth would Lebron ever come here...

Not that it wouldn't be nice, but he said it best himself: "If I'm not competing for the NBA championship, then I'm wasting my time".

We have nothing to offer him on that front. It's not even worth getting hyped over.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:12 AM   #69
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He should go to Chicago.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:19 AM   #70
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Why on earth would Lebron ever come here...

Not that it wouldn't be nice, but he said it best himself: "If I'm not competing for the NBA championship, then I'm wasting my time".

We have nothing to offer him on that front. It's not even worth getting hyped over.
THANK YOU! sheesh everyone thinks hes coming to NYK.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:32 AM   #71
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Not sure if you fellas saw this on TV (I think I might have saw it on ESPN) but one day they had a psychic "predict" which team LeBron might play for next season and sure enough the psychic predicted the WIZARDS. I laughed so hard when she said that.
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Old 05-14-2010, 09:36 AM   #72
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:13 AM   #73
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Why on earth would Lebron ever come here...

Not that it wouldn't be nice, but he said it best himself: "If I'm not competing for the NBA championship, then I'm wasting my time".

We have nothing to offer him on that front. It's not even worth getting hyped over.
Wishful thinking, I know, but here's how I see the negotiations going down...

Donnie Walsh: "Hey Lebron, we have enough money to pair you up with another superstar and a few good role players, who do you want to play with?"

First up, let's start with the stars whose contracts expire following the 2009-2010 season and will then become honest-to-goodness free agents:
Joe Johnson
Ray Allen
Manu Ginobili
Marcus Camby
Tracey McGrady
Shaquille O'Neal
Brad Miller
Stephen Jackson
Jermaine O'Neal
Mike Miller
Rip Hamilton


The next grouping is those players that are signed thru 2011, but can opt out in 2010 if they so choose:
Yao Ming (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Amare Stoudamire (owed 17.7 million in 10/11)
Dwayne Wade (owed 17.0 million in 10/11)
Chris Bosh (owed 17.1 million in 10/11)
Dirk Nowitzki (owed $21.5 million in 10/11)
Josh Howard (owed $11.8 million in 10/11)
Mike Redd (owed $18.3 million in 10/11)
Tyson Chandler (owed $12.8 million in 10/11)


This next list consists of contracts that are set to expire in 2010, but the player may choose to opt-out following the 2008-2009 season:Steve Nash (owed $13.1 million in 09-10)
Carlos Boozer (owed $12.7 million in 09-10)
Chris Paul (owed $6 million in 09-10 / almost certain to sign an extension before becoming unrestricted)
Memo Okur (owed $9.0 million in 09-10)
Hedo Turkoglu (owed $7.4 million in 09-10)

In addition to the superstars listed above, these 'second-tier' players are set to hit the open market as well:
Ben Wallace
Larry Hughes
Zydrunas Ilgauskas (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Anderson Varejao (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Al Harrington
Darko Milicic
Udonis Haslem
Jamal Crawford (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Eddy Curry (option to opt-out after 09/10 season)
Amir Johnson
Derek Fisher
Raja Bell
T.J. Ford (player option - owed $8.5 million in 10/11)
Travis Outlaw
Bruce Bowen
Earl Watson
Luke Ridnour
Matt Harpring
Quentin Richardson
Damien Wilkins



Players that will actually eventually have value due solely to the fact their contracts come off the books in the summer of 2010:
Jerome James (proof that Isiah Thomas knew what he was doing all along!)
Cuttino Mobley
Brendan Haywood
Tim Thomas
Brian Cardinal
Antonio Davis
Mark Blount
Bobby Simmons
Troy Hudson
Darius Miles
Kenny Thomas
Shareef Abdul-Rahim
Matt Bonner
Etan Thomas


Last, but not least, we have the 2006 Draft Class. These players will all be restricted free-agents in 2010, if they haven't already been inked to extensions:
Brandon Roy
Rudy Gay
LaMarcus Aldridge
Andrea Bargnani
Rajon Rondo
Tyrus Thomas
Kyle Lowry
Randy Foye
Marcus Williams
Josh Boone
Renaldo Balkman
Sergio Rodriguez
Ronnie Brewer
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:20 AM   #74
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This is why everytime somebody says the LeBron is better than Kobe, it just makes me wanna puke. No doubt that LeBron is younger and supremely-talented. If I were to build a team RIGHT NOW, I would pick LeBron over Kobe as well, solely based on their ages. However, LeBron has yet to accomplish anything compared to Kobe!!
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:22 AM   #75
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So a triple double is choking?
did you watch the game? that triple double was far from an excellent game.

im convinced. lebron is great, but far from mj level. hes not even on kobes level. also, the cavs are like the mavs. no matter how much talent they have, they cant succeed in the playoffs.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:27 AM   #76
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Please let the Jordan comparisons stop. I could care less what a player does in the regular season. It is the playoffs that count. You can now throw Lebron in the Dirk category. They won the MVP and went into a cave during playoffs to hide. I dont care how many points he scored, the triple double, or any of that. He has put a city and team on his back and in the most telling stage of his career dropped them off and took a plane to NY or where ever he was thinking about going instead of playing. Even during the Jordan era, some of the best players like Barley lost but didnt quit. There is a big difference. I respect all those guys because they came to fight even against Jordan. Last night and the game before, Lebron quite. Say what you want about Kobe even, ive never seen him quit.
So true.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:33 AM   #77
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Man that was a spectacular beat down by the Celtics. We all know that LeBron is an amazing player, but it's pretty clear here that he needs real talent on his team to work with.

Clear comparison with the celtics: The only matchup on the court the cavs had in their favor was Lebron vs whomever is guarding him. All 4 other guys were easily overpowered by the celtics lineup. Celtics are pretty unique with such a deep roster full of talent, people can come off the bench and score like they were a starter, impressive.

Compare his stats from games he won in the post season vs games he lost: games cavs won lebron scores around 40 points, because no one else will. He needs to take charge and dominate, otherwise the cavs won't go anywhere. Celtics leading scorers are all within spitting distance of each other, rarely does one player make 2x the points of the next guy.

I am still surprised how lethargic Lebron played last night, he was standing around too much, what did he expect to accomplish by passing off the ball most of the time?

If Lebron want's to guarantee a title in the near future, he needs to move out and go to a team that will respect his talents and give him more than B/C list players. I think he should move. He has all the money he needs and Cleveland screwed up a huuuuuuuuuuuuuuge opportunity by not getting him better players.

If Lebron stays, he will get a lot of kudos and respect, but i don't think it's a wise decision for his career as an athlete that desires a championship.

Chicago welcomes you with open arms Lebron, but do keep your hands of that #23, it's reserved
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:33 AM   #78
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wrong wrong wrong

lebron will win the championships once he is on a better team.

he obviously was depleted because he couldn't do it all himself.

how could you bring up kobe and MJ when they had a stellar supporting staff not to mention a strong bench

lebron has NONE of that. he's like the patrick ewing - all talent - no championship due to a mediocre team.

coco you're way to hard on lebron - he will get the trophy soon enough and smash it on your face

then put it in the butt of reiger guy - then smash it on the heads of the mods on this forum.

then the new people too because they buy high mileage used bmws
When a team has the best record in the NBA and has two all-star's (Mo Williams last year; Antawn Jamison twice before) outside of someone who is supposedly the best in the NBA...well, anything less than winning a title is a bust. The fact is Lebron had two all-stars around him and decent role players to go along with an aging Shaq who still commands the double team...sure, they aren't talented like the Lakers or Magic, but that's enough talent to make the Cavs the best TEAM in the nba with another 60 win season; it sure as hell is enough talent for someone who is considered the best in the league to turn the corner to the title. Unfortunately, Lebron doesn't have the competitive edge or leadership quality that is required for the franchise player to lead his team to a title.

And as another data point, this cavs team has more collective talent than the 1991 Bulls team. Jordan took a young Pippen (3rd year in the league) and the rest of that mediocre team, put them on his back, and won the title (three times in a row obviously). Outside of a young, underdeveloped Pippen, the bulls had a team full of garbage players...Bill Cartwright, Craig Hodges, Cliff Levingston, Horace Grant, and BJ Armstrong?! You've only heard of these names simply because they played on that team with Jordan...check their stats, they were mediocre players at best.

But that's the difference between His Airness and Lebron...MJ would kill his children if it meant he were going to win. But let's not forget just how good MJ was while in his prime. In the 90's, Jordan could score anywhere on the floor at will, he developed a great midrange shot, could score with his back to the basket with the fadeaway (Kobe studied the tapes and copied this move), could jump over anyone to get to the rim, and most importantly, he was also the best on-ball defender in the game. MJ was not only the best offensive player of all time, but he was also arguably the best defender. Lebron, on the other hand, can get to the hoop easily, but he is a bit too one-dimensional when it comes to his offensive game. He can't shoot to save his life (midrange or long range), he does not have any reliable post game with his back to the basket, and he isn't much of a defender.

Point blank, there is no excuse for losing by 30 points in the biggest game of the season...game 5 at home of the conference semi's. He did not show up to play, and that is indicative of his lack of 'heart'. I'm so sick of the constant excuses, constantly blaming it on the talent around him. It's simply not true. Having the best player in the league, a couple of all-stars and decent role players has always been the recipe for a championship. In the Cavs case, was it enough to have the best record in the league during 82 games? Well if that's the case, then choking in the playoffs is inexcusable and the responsibility rests on the leader who happens to be the 'best' player in the league. The team follows their leader, so, when Lebron doesn't show up to play in the playoffs, well, the team is lost and therefore lacks cohesion...because the leader didn't show up to lead. Nobody was complaining about talent during the season at ANY point. It was the opposite in fact, everyone finally realized that the Cavs surrounded Lebron with enough talent to turn the corner to the title. Hell, without any other all-star caliber players on his team, a couple years prior, Lebron took them to the finals...but with better talent he does worse?! There's no excuse for it.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:38 AM   #79
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Lebron is an amazing player, but I too noticed the lack of effort. There was definitely something wrong with Lebron. I doubt he's lost his drive for basketball. He could possibly be hurt or even have a conflict of interest in his organization. Perhaps this was him proving that the team is nothing without him. I bet we've all had similar situations in our place of employment. However, that's not the mindset of a champion.
As I have already said, all of those "excuses" are simply that, excuses. If Lebron had the kind of competitive drive that motivates players to win at all costs, then none of those excuses would matter.
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Old 05-14-2010, 10:40 AM   #80
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he does not have any reliable post game with his back to the basket, and he isn't much of a defender.


*******>********><table class="cnnTMbox" width="600" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0">*******><tr><td class="cnnIEBoxTitle">2009-10 NBA All-Defensive Team </td> </tr> <tr><td class="cnnIEBoxSubTitle">First Team</td></tr> <tr> <td class="cnnTMcontent"> *******> ********><table class="cnnTM" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1"> *******><tr class="cnnIEHdrRowBG"> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Position</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Player, Team</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">1st</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">2nd</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Points</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Center</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Dwight Howard, Orlando</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">28</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">1</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">57</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Rajon Rondo, Boston</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">23</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">4</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">50</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">LeBron James, Cleveland</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">20</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">5</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">45</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">13</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">8</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">34</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR" *****ald="" wallace,="" charlotte=""></td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">11</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">8</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">30</td></tr>********></table></td></tr>********></table>

2008-09 NBA ALL-DEFENSIVE FIRST TEAM *******> ********>*******>********><table class="cnnTM" width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="1">*******><tr class="cnnIEHdrRowBG"> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Position</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Player, Team</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">1st</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">2nd</td> <td class="cnnIEColHdrC">Points</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Center</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Dwight Howard, Orlando</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">27</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">1</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">55</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Kobe Bryant, L.A. Lakers</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">24</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">5</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">53</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">LeBron James, Cleveland</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">22</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">3</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">47</td> </tr> <tr> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Guard</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Chris Paul, New Orleans</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">15</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">6</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">36</td> </tr> <tr class="cnnIERowAltBG"> <td class="cnnIEColTxtL">Forward</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">Kevin Garnett, Boston</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">13</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">9</td> <td class="cnnIEColTxtR">35</td></tr>********></table>
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