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Old 11-30-2013, 12:50 PM   #1
jdstrickland
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To LL-01 or not to LL-01, that is the question.

Seems that BMW USA does not LL-01.

I was in the parts department recently and found that the BMW Performance Motor Oil they sell is not LL-01, it is API Grade SL, ACEA A3/B3.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:09 PM   #2
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Has always been 3, no?
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:14 PM   #3
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has always been 3, no?
3?
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:17 PM   #4
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...I'm pretty sure it's implied that BMW 5w30 oil is LL-01 since it's made by them.
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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To LL-01 or not to LL-01, that is the question.

Someone on E90post a while back wondered about the same thing, but likewise came to no conclusion.

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=306942
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:30 PM   #6
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To LL-01 or not to LL-01, that is the question.

Very interesting!! Is there other non bmw oils that offer these same specs?


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Old 11-30-2013, 01:40 PM   #7
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3?
A3/B3 is the highest rating.
Doesn't that imply LL-01?
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:41 PM   #8
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...I'm pretty sure it's implied that BMW 5w30 oil is LL-01 since it's made by them.
BMW makes no oil.
re-brands
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Old 11-30-2013, 01:47 PM   #9
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...I'm pretty sure it's implied that BMW 5w30 oil is LL-01 since it's made by them.
If I made and sold a product that was to my exacting specifications, you can be damn sure nobody would have to assume it met my criteria, I would print on the package, JEFF'S PERFECT BLEND, or whatever, so nobody had to assume anything.

If assumptions are to be made, then the assumption that it is perfvectly fine that oil that is API Grade SN (or better), with an ACEA Rating of A3/B3 should be as good of an assumption as, "it must be LL-01 since it's in a BMW bottle."

When you go to the store to buy motor oil, get the proper weight for the climate that the engine operates in and get API Grade SL, or higher.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:07 PM   #10
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This begs the question, what is better? LL-01 or ACEA A3/B3?
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You come off as an angry ghetto kid with mental issues.

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Congratulations, your car is a disaster.
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Old 11-30-2013, 03:12 PM   #11
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I do not get over excited about manufacturers oil specs. Not a bad idea to run their recommend oil while the powertrain warranty is still in effect just so there is no arguments, but if you are not running your oil change intervals to 15k miles, not so sure you really need LL-01.

Also note that manufacturers change their requirements OFTEN. So for example VW revised their spec for the older cars and superseded it with a newer spec due problems they were having with the 1.8t and oil pump screen restrictions. The issue was really the thermostats were soft, the engines ran too cool and the crankcases were prematurely contaminated with too much water vapor.

BMW now has dropped their oil change requirement from the basic 15k miles or what ever the Liter fuel consumption was for this expected miles to 10k miles due to their fleet changing over to a lot of turbos and Diesels.

http://www.autoevolution.com/bmw-blo...ars-63788.html

Just run a good quality Synthetic that is not a 0WXX weight oil and change it between 7-10k miles depending on your driving conditions and you should be fine. In the winter months, at least once a week, pull the oil fill cap and check for mayo when the engine is cold. I also usually try to change my oil before the cold weather hits so I can start the Winter season with fresh, clean and not contaminated oil. If you find excessive mayo, check your engine coolant temperature and plan at least a weekly drive that is at least 45 minutes+ to cook all the crap out of the crankcase.

Of course CCV health, proper engine temp, ambient temps and driving distance can all factor in to the mayo problem. You may just need to manage the problem.

Pictures below of LL-01 approved oil, mayo and a bad thermostat.
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:01 PM   #12
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Interesting statement jfoj; why do you say you stay away from 0WXX weight oils. One of the most common LL-01 motor oils is Mobil 1 0W-40. Just a question; i've been using that particular brand and weight for 14 years and 360,000 miles in the Mid-Atlantic states with an oil change interval of 7.5k. Should I seriously consider another weight?
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:21 PM   #13
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Interesting statement jfoj; why do you say you stay away from 0WXX weight oils. One of the most common LL-01 motor oils is Mobil 1 0W-40. Just a question; i've been using that particular brand and weight for 14 years and 360,000 miles in the Mid-Atlantic states with an oil change interval of 7.5k. Should I seriously consider another weight?
Personally I'd guess not. It was on BMW's recommended list last I looked.
Acts as a very nice thin weight at freezing temps so it lubes well there. And then acts as a heavier 40W when the car's up to operating temperature.
Prob only reason it's not standard for us is the CAFE rules.
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Old 11-30-2013, 04:48 PM   #14
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I have run Mobil 1 (never 0W00 oils, usually 5WXX or 10WXX, as 0WXX oils were never available where I was purchasing oil) for a while. I mainly purchased my oil at Costco because they carried it and had decent prices, however, after some issues, I am no longer a fan of Mobil 1 for my cars and trucks.

It is interesting how BMW Oil (Castrol brand as best we know, possibly with special formulations per BMW??, maybe the same thing in a special BMW branded bottle?) is a 5W30 oil and Mobil 1 is a 0W30.

I have seen a number is cases where on some cars both BMW and others, the Mobil 1 0WXX seems to be too thin, maybe other specs differ as well, that cause excessive oil consumption and even oil leaks where some of the 5WXX oils had no issues on the same cars. This is not to say that every car/user/case will be have the same issues, but after watching this oil being used and some of the issues I have been made aware of, I do not use or recommend it Mobil 1 0WXX oil for any application. Again, this is based on a pretty big cross section of friends and other folks in the industry that have had similar experiences. Not saying this is specifically a problem oil, just have seen some unusual situations that were cleared up by changing to a different weight and brand oil.

Had no issues with the Castrol Edge either 5W30 or 5W40 that is approved for use in the VW, MB, Porsche and BMW. Have a lot of feedback about these oils with very little complaints.

Unfortunately I would have to say that most of the "approvals" tend to be more lab testing than real world testing, additionally if there is any real world testing, I would expect this to either be on dyno based cars/engines so most of the variables can be controlled and tests can be easily replicated and/or with newer, lower mileage engines. So these types of test really do not deal with the 10+ year old engines with 200k hard miles and in reality the auto makers could really care less how these spec'ed oils perform in older higher mileage cars because their main concern is not for you getting 300k on the engine, their main concern is will the oil protect the engine long enough under harsh conditions that the customer and manufacturer are not dealing with oil related engine failures withing the warranty period or likely within the period that an original owner is still driving the car.

Running a LL-01 approved oil is fine, this is a pretty good guideline, but given most of the E46 are well beyond any warranty or CPO warranty windows, running a LL-01 approved oil is really not a requirement, again, it is a good guideline to consider. But just because an oil is LL-01 approved does not mean it will perform best in your higher mileage engine, so experimenting a bit is not a bad thing. Also suggest oil change intervals be backed down to 10k or less miles on these cars.

I have also been experimenting with running SeaFoam or STP Multipurpose Motor Treatment in the crankcase for upto a tank full of gasoline in the engine before changing the oil. I have found this seems to really clean out the crankcase a bit more than a normal oil drain and I have seen much cleaner oil for longer periods in the cars that I have tried this on. Originally started this with some rather neglected engines, some even turbo engine. just did not beat them hard while the additive was in the oil and found I had ZERO negative effects in any of the cars, so I have started to use this on other cars and trunks, length dependent on what the engine oil is looking like before an oil change and the vehicle mileage.

The other thing I have started to pay very close attention to is not oil mayo build up on the oil fill cap in the colder months but also engine operating temperature as all of these factors can cause even fresh engine oil to contaminate very quickly. It seems the excessive moisture in the crankcase along with the Ethanol blended fuels and cool running engines can cause a perfect storm for engine oil related problems. This is why I almost always try to change oil in all of my vehicles before the onset of freezing temps so I can ride out the Winter months on the freshest oil and the least amount of crankcase contamination to start off the Winter season with.

Oil change intervals are not always about mileage, also conditions and the Winter months tend to be some pretty severe conditions for some engines.

If the Mobil 1 0WXX is working for you, no leaks or consumption issues, then great, you might as well stick with it, but if you are having any consumption issues that are concerning or leaks that are questionable, might be worth trying a different brand and weight oil for the next oil change interval and see if things are different.
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:07 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I have run Mobil 1 (never 0W00 oils, usually 5WXX or 10WXX, as 0WXX oils were never available where I was purchasing oil) for a while. I mainly purchased my oil at Costco because they carried it and had decent prices, however, after some issues, I am no longer a fan of Mobil 1 for my cars and trucks.

It is interesting how BMW Oil (Castrol brand as best we know, possibly with special formulations per BMW??, maybe the same thing in a special BMW branded bottle?) is a 5W30 oil and Mobil 1 is a 0W30.

I have seen a number is cases where on some cars both BMW and others, the Mobil 1 0WXX seems to be too thin, maybe other specs differ as well, that cause excessive oil consumption and even oil leaks where some of the 5WXX oils had no issues on the same cars. This is not to say that every car/user/case will be have the same issues, but after watching this oil being used and some of the issues I have been made aware of, I do not use or recommend it Mobil 1 0WXX oil for any application. Again, this is based on a pretty big cross section of friends and other folks in the industry that have had similar experiences. Not saying this is specifically a problem oil, just have seen some unusual situations that were cleared up by changing to a different weight and brand oil.

Had no issues with the Castrol Edge either 5W30 or 5W40 that is approved for use in the VW, MB, Porsche and BMW. Have a lot of feedback about these oils with very little complaints.

Unfortunately I would have to say that most of the "approvals" tend to be more lab testing than real world testing, additionally if there is any real world testing, I would expect this to either be on dyno based cars/engines so most of the variables can be controlled and tests can be easily replicated and/or with newer, lower mileage engines. So these types of test really do not deal with the 10+ year old engines with 200k hard miles and in reality the auto makers could really care less how these spec'ed oils perform in older higher mileage cars because their main concern is not for you getting 300k on the engine, their main concern is will the oil protect the engine long enough under harsh conditions that the customer and manufacturer are not dealing with oil related engine failures withing the warranty period or likely within the period that an original owner is still driving the car.

Running a LL-01 approved oil is fine, this is a pretty good guideline, but given most of the E46 are well beyond any warranty or CPO warranty windows, running a LL-01 approved oil is really not a requirement, again, it is a good guideline to consider. But just because an oil is LL-01 approved does not mean it will perform best in your higher mileage engine, so experimenting a bit is not a bad thing. Also suggest oil change intervals be backed down to 10k or less miles on these cars.

I have also been experimenting with running SeaFoam or STP Multipurpose Motor Treatment in the crankcase for upto a tank full of gasoline in the engine before changing the oil. I have found this seems to really clean out the crankcase a bit more than a normal oil drain and I have seen much cleaner oil for longer periods in the cars that I have tried this on. Originally started this with some rather neglected engines, some even turbo engine. just did not beat them hard while the additive was in the oil and found I had ZERO negative effects in any of the cars, so I have started to use this on other cars and trunks, length dependent on what the engine oil is looking like before an oil change and the vehicle mileage.

The other thing I have started to pay very close attention to is not oil mayo build up on the oil fill cap in the colder months but also engine operating temperature as all of these factors can cause even fresh engine oil to contaminate very quickly. It seems the excessive moisture in the crankcase along with the Ethanol blended fuels and cool running engines can cause a perfect storm for engine oil related problems. This is why I almost always try to change oil in all of my vehicles before the onset of freezing temps so I can ride out the Winter months on the freshest oil and the least amount of crankcase contamination to start off the Winter season with.

Oil change intervals are not always about mileage, also conditions and the Winter months tend to be some pretty severe conditions for some engines.

If the Mobil 1 0WXX is working for you, no leaks or consumption issues, then great, you might as well stick with it, but if you are having any consumption issues that are concerning or leaks that are questionable, might be worth trying a different brand and weight oil for the next oil change interval and see if things are different.
Which of the following is thinner at operating temperature, 0W30, 5W30, or 10W30?
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Old 11-30-2013, 05:26 PM   #16
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Which of the following is thinner at operating temperature, 0W30, 5W30, or 10W30?
Textbook answer would be all are the same 30W.
Is this a trick question?
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:08 PM   #17
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Originally Posted by Stinger9 View Post
A3/B3 is the highest rating.
Doesn't that imply LL-01?
Here is a link where you can compare various oil specs and see what the spec provides:

http://www.lubrizol.com/EngineOilAdd...l/default.html

you can compare BMW LL-01 to ACEA B3/B4 while they both consentrate on wear, piston cleanliness, sludge and thickening, the BMW spec requires more than just the A3/B3 (I used the ACEA 2004 specs as those were inplace during the E46 production) You can also see on the right hand side both specs require a HTHS of >=3.5 and sulfated ash of <= 1.6%

Have fun with all the oil specs!!!
Note: look at the Ford and GM specs to see the effects of CAFE mileage requirements
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:29 PM   #18
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anyone that's been around long enough knows, mobil1 in these motors is no bueno

i ran it in my firebird fine, never in the bmw

stick with the bmw oil for these engines , end of story
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #19
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anyone that's been around long enough knows, mobil1 in these motors is no bueno

i ran it in my firebird fine, never in the bmw

stick with the bmw oil for these engines , end of story
Your claim means nothing without an explanation.
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Old 11-30-2013, 06:37 PM   #20
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anyone that's been around long enough knows, mobil1 in these motors is no bueno

i ran it in my firebird fine, never in the bmw

stick with the bmw oil for these engines , end of story
GoingNuts? Is that you?!
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