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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 07-30-2015, 03:51 PM   #1
dsm2002
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M52 or M54 into E30?

Considering a M52B28 single vanos with M50 manifold and BBTB or M54B30 for a dedicated E30 race car. Plan to use a stand alone ecu.

Which of the two would be better stock?

M54 has greater capacity, DISA and double vanos, but for the track DISA is less of an advantage. Have been told the M52 + M50 inlet + BBTB approaches stock M54 power. Is this correct?

Which block would be stronger for a built NA engine?

Which block would be better to maximise the bore?

Which crank would be better for a race engine? How would each compare for say 7000, 7500 and 8000rpm?

Which head would be better? I understand the ports of the M54 head are smaller.

I am aware of the M54 oil pump being marginal.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:10 PM   #2
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For the tracked E30 you want the M54B30 because it weighs less and delivers more power and torque. You need torque to get out of chicane faster and more power for straight line, you need less weight upfront to reduce oversteer. Stock MS43 engine management will do the job just fine, no need to invest in aftermarket system it will never be better than MS43
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:24 PM   #3
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M54B25 would be the better RACING motor and longer lasting. The B30 due to it's long stroke AND aluminum block won't last long at high RPM and will shake it's self to destruction

Stroke
B25 = 75 mm (3.0 in)
B30 = 89.6 mm (3.5 in) They achieved this by using a E36 M3 S52 crank

B30 would be the better Daily Driving motor with minimal and occasional high rpm usage

Then you have the S54 with 91 mm (3.6 in) stroke but with a Cast iron block strong enough to keep the harmonics in check. But instead of broken crankshafts, HB's, and oil pump nuts you deal with connecting rods.
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:42 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by new//M3fan View Post
M54B25 would be the better RACING motor and longer lasting. The B30 due to it's long stroke AND aluminum block won't last long at high RPM and will shake it's self to destruction

Stroke
B25 = 75 mm (3.0 in)
B30 = 89.6 mm (3.5 in) They achieved this by using a E36 M3 S52 crank

B30 would be the better Daily Driving motor with minimal and occasional high rpm usage.
This thinking, or the M52B28.

***************************************

OP, unless you're willing to spend roughly ~$1800 on motor longevity fixes, the M54B30 is a poor high RPM race motor choice.



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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 07-30-2015, 04:51 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by HakenTT View Post
you need less weight upfront to reduce oversteer.
Besides the other nonsense you just posted, this especially stood out as its completely backwards. More weight in the front does exactly that, it reduces oversteer and tends towards understeer. Weight biased to the back promotes oversteer...
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:26 PM   #6
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Thanks for the advice fellas. I'm happy with the M54B30 as a daily in my 330i and stock I can see it better than the M52 - better torque. I already have a stand alone and all of the wiring has been removed. I have been acquiring the wiring and hardware to rewire the engine related electrics and planning to use solid state lighting kit a mate has developed.

I have picked up a ZSP for all the special bits for my stock 330i and have a low mileage M54 with it. I could use it or sell it and use the $$$ towards cams and other bits for the M52.

I am reluctant to use the iron block because of the weight. The E30 is completely stripped and I am taking out as much weight as possible. E30s are light on the rear.

If I were to go for a full on NA race engine, I could explore grout filling and or a crankcase girdle. I am not sure if it has been done or not.

btw I also have dry sump gear lying around. Just need a dry sump oil pan.
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Old 07-30-2015, 05:48 PM   #7
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I wrote this awhile back, you'll find it helpful.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1017883



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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 07-31-2015, 04:41 PM   #8
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I had swapped a M54B30 with Schrick Cams into a e36 which I used sometimes for trackdays.
The car had a pretty good balance due to the aluminum block, but you are limited with the engine regarding further power enhancements.
If you are fine with the power of a M54B30 it is a pretty good concept.
But if you are looking for much more power you should rather consider other concepts from the beginning like a s54b32 than swaping a M54B30 or a M52 and trying to further enhance the power.
In the meantime I removed the M54B30 and swaped in a S54B32. It is a little more heavy on the front, but the additional speed straight forward easy compensates that...
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Old 07-31-2015, 09:27 PM   #9
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Besides the other nonsense you just posted, this especially stood out as its completely backwards. More weight in the front does exactly that, it reduces oversteer and tends towards understeer. Weight biased to the back promotes oversteer...
If I am wrong then why did you decide to go with M54B30 then?
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:09 PM   #10
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If I am wrong then why did you decide to go with M54B30 then?

I don't know what you mean by this. But I went with m54b30 for more power plain and simple. There is no weight difference... If anything it weighs a few grams less than an m52b25.
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Old 07-31-2015, 11:12 PM   #11
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Further, I don't reduce weight in the front to reduce oversteer... Cause that's not what weight loss in the front does. I like a slightly rearward bias personally to slightly increase oversteer/compliance/plant power.
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Old 08-01-2015, 06:26 AM   #12
dsm2002
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I wrote this awhile back, you'll find it helpful.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1017883

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Thanks Rob. I have heard about crank and oil pump issues with the M54B30 before but appreciate your informed contribution.
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Old 08-01-2015, 02:08 PM   #13
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I don't know what you mean by this. But I went with m54b30 for more power plain and simple. There is no weight difference... If anything it weighs a few grams less than an m52b25.
I recommended a guy to do M54B30 and you said I was wrong, what part of that don't you understand? In E30 heavy engine will cause oversteer, I have few E30s myself, you have none. I know what it does. Here is the guy who put heavy jeep Cherokee inline 6 in his E30 and in chicane oversteer is so bad that rear end lifts and front tends to steer sooner than expected, that is oversteer. you are wrong and spreading misinformation

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Old 08-01-2015, 06:19 PM   #14
dsm2002
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Thanks for the advice viz M54. Before this turns into handling argument, just think. "Chicane oversteer", not a conventional term, is about dynamic weight transfer + rear camber & toe change". In a well set up car with braking not impacting on basic cornering, heavier engine will induce understeer
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Old 12-14-2015, 09:20 AM   #15
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I do not know why this complicated engine is needed for the E30, my vote goes for an E36 325i single VANOS motor for the E30.
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Old 12-14-2015, 12:31 PM   #16
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The M54 isn't particularly complicated. But it is light, as compared to the iron-block E36 stuff. At least as far as BMW inline-6 engines go. It's also cheap, as BMW put it in just about everything they made in the 2000's, so there are tons of them out there.

Is is a great race engine, not really. But it's not bad if you understand its limitations and stay within them.
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