E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rating: Thread Rating: 1 votes, 5.00 average. Display Modes
Old 05-15-2014, 09:43 PM   #1
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Need help diagnosing misfire

I need some help here guys, when all this started I had a misfire in cylinders 3, 4, and 5. I changed the all the plugs, and the ignition coils in 3, 4, and 5, took out the idler control valve and cleaned it, and found a vacuum leak and fixed that.
I'm still getting a misfire in cylinder 5, code says it's running too lean, so I swapped the fuel injectors in cylinder 5 and 6. Car threw a code today, and again it's running too lean in cylinder 5, and also the o2 sensor in bank 2 before the cat, and o2 sensor in bank 2 after the cat are showing faults.

Are the o2 sensors my problem? I'm thinking not, but I'm sure one of you can give me a 100% yes or no.

Little bit about the misfire, it's only on start up, the car will run fine for the first five or so seconds, then I can feel it misfire a few times over the coarse of about five seconds and then it's back to running normal.



Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 05-16-2014, 02:43 PM   #2
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Need help diagnosing misfire

Any input please!! Ha

Could a catalytic that is going bad possibly cause these codes AND the misfire? Before I changes the ignition coils/plugs/fixed the leak and cleaned the ICV the car smokes heavy on start up, the cat doesn't get red hot, car doesn't smoke now, but maybe it's starting to go bad from the hand full of times I started the car and dumped smoke through the exhaust? I've really got no effing clue what else can be causing this.
I'm going to recheck for more vacuum leaks on Wednesday when I replace the radiator, but ANY input on ANYTHING else I can look for while it will be easily viewable will help.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app

Last edited by DNTHATE; 05-16-2014 at 02:47 PM.
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 09:28 AM   #3
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,325
My Ride: 328i Sport
How are all your gaskets on the engine and engine parts?

Intake manifold
Throttle body
CCV kit
DISA o-ring
Valve cover gasket

Something is letting unmetered air in the engine, a common problem for your symptoms. Computer maxed out the fuel delivery and it still cannot make up for the lean mix so its throwing a code.
__________________
New Genuine Parts FS
328i DISA
E46 CCV

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 09:30 AM   #4
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,325
My Ride: 328i Sport
Cleaning coils/plugs will only band-aid the problem, not solve it.
__________________
New Genuine Parts FS
328i DISA
E46 CCV

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-19-2014, 08:52 PM   #5
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Sooo I yanked the radiator out today since I was off all day and then started to look around while I was under the hood. Did a smoke test with a cigar XD and found nothing, so I started to take the intake system off and noticed that I didn't tighten up a hose clam when I put the ICV back in, oops, haven't started the car yet, but I'm looking forward to Wednesday when I get my new radiator and drop it in. Hopefully that was the problem. Fingers crossed!


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 11:00 PM   #6
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartenderPlease View Post
How are all your gaskets on the engine and engine parts?



Intake manifold

Throttle body

CCV kit

DISA o-ring

Valve cover gasket



Something is letting unmetered air in the engine, a common problem for your symptoms. Computer maxed out the fuel delivery and it still cannot make up for the lean mix so its throwing a code.

Gaskets look fine, I did replace the intake manifold gasket and the vacuum lines on the back under side of the intake manifold. My car now only misfires on start occasionally and for a couple of seconds rather than for minutes.

Today I did unplug all the vacuum hoses and blow/suck through them, and I can suck and blow through the top bigger hose on the F connecter of the air intake. The hose is fine, but something after it is not. What system does this go to? And what part of the system is the most likely cause?
Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByBimmerApp1402372749.414657.jpg
Views:	27
Size:	65.2 KB
ID:	561378



Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 06:16 PM   #7
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
I unplugged the hose circled in green and was able to blow and suck air through it. I couldn't find anything wrong with the plastic tube or hose, so I pinched off the hose where the red line is and was not able to suck or blow. When I pinched the hose where the blue line is I was able to suck and blow.



Anyway my question is, is there a relay for this electric valve somewhere that may be bad that is causing this to stay open? Or does the fact that when I pinch off the hose where the blue line is dismiss the question above and tell us the electric valve is cracked or broke or something and that's what needs to be replaced.



I'm thinking the answer is the second half, but I just want to hear others opinions before I go out and buy this part.


Click image for larger version

Name:	ImageUploadedByBimmerApp1402442177.480654.jpg
Views:	33
Size:	130.7 KB
ID:	561548




Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 09:33 PM   #8
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,325
My Ride: 328i Sport
If that e-valve between the red and blue line is bad, you would get an insufficient flow codes from a CEL, this is a check valve for your secondary air pump.
__________________
New Genuine Parts FS
328i DISA
E46 CCV

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |



Last edited by BartenderPlease; 06-10-2014 at 09:33 PM.
BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 09:34 PM   #9
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,325
My Ride: 328i Sport
Do you misfire during low RPM, normal acceleration?
__________________
New Genuine Parts FS
328i DISA
E46 CCV

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 09:36 PM   #10
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartenderPlease View Post
Do you misfire during low RPM, normal acceleration?

Only on cold starts, never after the engine has warmed up.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 09:43 PM   #11
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,325
My Ride: 328i Sport
When did this start? I'm wondering about it being the progressive failure of VANOS piston seals, I should've put in the list way above.
__________________
New Genuine Parts FS
328i DISA
E46 CCV

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 09:45 PM   #12
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartenderPlease View Post
When did this start? I'm wondering about it being the progressive failure of VANOS piston seals, I should've put in the list way above.

A little over a month ago, the car was misfiring in 3 cylinders for minutes at a time on every start, all the leaks I've found have made it much much better, but it still happens

Current codes are too lean bank 2, pre and post cat O2 sensors bank two, misfire cylinder 5.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-10-2014, 11:42 PM   #13
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Well shit, I found this in another thread
"Note the vacuum line from the SAP vacuum control solenoid to the SAP air control valve only has vacuum applied for the first 30-120 seconds (typically around 90 seconds) on cold start up. So if you car runs fine from 90-120 seconds and beyond, I would think this is a likely source of your problem.Also keep in mind the SAP vacuum control solenoid vents to atmosphere when de-energized (engine off or SAP not running) , so you blow backwards from the SAP air control valve or use a smoke tester you will have leakage on the SAP vacuum control solenoid at the air vent, this is normal."

So what I experienced must be completely normal. Damn


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 05:40 AM   #14
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,482
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNTHATE View Post
I unplugged the hose circled in green and was able to blow and suck air through it. I couldn't find anything wrong with the plastic tube or hose, so I pinched off the hose where the red line is and was not able to suck or blow. When I pinched the hose where the blue line is I was able to suck and blow.

Attachment 561548
Normal, I commented more in my Misfire/Cold start thread.

Forget the VANOS seals for this issue, not likely the cause.

Do not change O2 sensors as this point.

Need to see Fuel Trims at Warm Idle and this might give more insight.

Would HIGHLY suggest that the DISA be removed and inspected, the DISA O-ring be replaced and check the CCV hoses carefully, the CCV lower oil return line that connects to the dipstick is a very common failure point, however, the CCV and hoses likely needs to be replaced at this age anyway.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 06:01 AM   #15
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,482
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Quote:
Originally Posted by DNTHATE View Post
I unplugged the hose circled in green and was able to blow and suck air through it. I couldn't find anything wrong with the plastic tube or hose, so I pinched off the hose where the red line is and was not able to suck or blow. When I pinched the hose where the blue line is I was able to suck and blow.

Attachment 561548
The SAP test above indicate a normal condition, I commented more on your post in my Misfire/Cold start thread.

Forget the VANOS seals for this issue, not likely the cause.

Do not change O2 sensors as this point.

Need to see Fuel Trims at Warm Idle and this might give more insight.

Would HIGHLY suggest that the DISA be removed and inspected, the DISA O-ring be replaced and check the CCV hoses carefully, the CCV lower oil return line that connects to the dipstick is a very common failure point, however, the CCV and hoses likely needs to be replaced at this age anyway.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 10:41 AM   #16
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
I'll get some live data and post it up when I get home from work in a few hours. I did inspect the ccv hoses, but I missed a leak in the rubber hoses the first time I inspected them so I'll check again.


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 10:58 AM   #17
BartenderPlease
OEM ///Member
 
BartenderPlease's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: FL
Posts: 9,325
My Ride: 328i Sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
The SAP test above indicate a normal condition, I commented more on your post in my Misfire/Cold start thread.

Forget the VANOS seals for this issue, not likely the cause.

Do not change O2 sensors as this point.

Need to see Fuel Trims at Warm Idle and this might give more insight.

Would HIGHLY suggest that the DISA be removed and inspected, the DISA O-ring be replaced and check the CCV hoses carefully, the CCV lower oil return line that connects to the dipstick is a very common failure point, however, the CCV and hoses likely needs to be replaced at this age anyway.
Can't rule VANOS out completely, but it is less likely. I'm thinking it could be the culprit for my situation which is probably different from his.

I need to go check my fuel trims. Need to see what is causing my misfires at any operating temp, low RPM only when engine is trying to get the weight moving. happens much less and car is peppier when the A/C is turned on, as the DME enriches the mixture and advances the timing. Makes me wonder if it is my VANOS, since it retards timing as it wears. I have replaced every seal/gasket on and around my engine except for head gasket (which is fine) and VCG (which is OEM, 7 years old, have receipt from when I replaced it last).

I will buy a Hyundai MAF after I do VANOS seals, I currently have the parts for that one. The job is needed regardless if they are the problem, 177,000 miles, never been done. I can't rule that one out, which is why I didn't rule it out for the OP. I am going to open it up this week/weekend and work on these things, reset all adaptations, and see how it goes. Until then, I still get lean mix codes, 1250 code, and misfire codes.
__________________
New Genuine Parts FS
328i DISA
E46 CCV

image
AERA Hi-Perf Engine Builder
| BBS | FK | Rogue Eng | K&N | Exhaust | 330i Brakes |
| b30 manifold | ported head | FX-R/Orion V4 | LEDs |
| Alcantara | Khoalty Knob | JL Audio |


BartenderPlease is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 11:17 AM   #18
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Quote:
Originally Posted by BartenderPlease View Post
Can't rule VANOS out completely, but it is less likely. I'm thinking it could be the culprit for my situation which is probably different from his.



I need to go check my fuel trims. Need to see what is causing my misfires at any operating temp, low RPM only when engine is trying to get the weight moving. happens much less and car is peppier when the A/C is turned on, as the DME enriches the mixture and advances the timing. Makes me wonder if it is my VANOS, since it retards timing as it wears. I have replaced every seal/gasket on and around my engine except for head gasket (which is fine) and VCG (which is OEM, 7 years old, have receipt from when I replaced it last).



I will buy a Hyundai MAF after I do VANOS seals, I currently have the parts for that one. The job is needed regardless if they are the problem, 177,000 miles, never been done. I can't rule that one out, which is why I didn't rule it out for the OP. I am going to open it up this week/weekend and work on these things, reset all adaptations, and see how it goes. Until then, I still get lean mix codes, 1250 code, and misfire codes.


I have every service record from the first two owners, so I'll go digging through all of that later tonight after class to see what they've had done to it.

Are your misfire codes cylinder specific, or are they random? Just curious


Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 12:49 PM   #19
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 10,482
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Everyone makes these issues way harder than they need to be.

These engines need very tightly sealed intake and path and crankcases, otherwise there may be cold start issues, misfires and lean codes.

VANOS seals rarely seem to be the solution for cold start problems from wht I have seen. I seem to find that replacing the valve cover gasket and/or CCV hoses had more to do with improving the cold star issues than VANOS seals.

Not saying you should not consider or replace them, but I find that to many people jump on the hard and expensive repairs first like MAF replacement and VANOS seals when there are PLENTY of cheaper and easier problems to resolve long before the MAF and VANOS seals are considered.

Also having a decent OBDII logging ability with a smart phone App or a Windows laptop goes very far to help identify the problem areas.

Cam timing plays less into low engine load performance issues then does ignition timing. You can easily feel 5 a degree change in ignition timing and not hardly notice 5 degrees of camshaft timing change. The butt dyno can easily detect ignition timing changes and the OBDII logging tools can easily display changes in ignition timing. Cam timing, not so with basic/generic OBDII tools.

I am a broken record about this, if the part is plastic or rubber under the hood of one of these E46 and it is 8+ years old, replace it. It is finished. The high under hood temps due to the large profile engine, lack of free air space and the fact the catalytic converters are integrated into the exhaust manifold on the side of the engine cause everything under the hood to be baked and deteriorated by the constant heat.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-11-2014, 04:42 PM   #20
DNTHATE
E46Fanatic
 
Join Date: Apr 2014
Posts: 79
Exciting things are happening, I cleared the codes last night knowing I was getting my new F connector and boot today(didn't clear them after the intake manifold gasket and vacuum tube because I broke the F and boot) anyway, the light came on on the way to work this morning, I just got home and it's just ONE lonely code! Code is (P2098) post cat fuel trim system too lean bank 2.

I've got the new boot and F connector on so let me give you some live data.

Ok I'm pretty sure SHRTFT and LONGFT are the fuel trim, and SHRTFT B1 S2 and SHRTFT B2 S2 look fvcked to me, both are reading 99.2% and not fluctuating one bit.

The rest read as follow

SHRTFT 1, between -0.8% and -4%
LONGFT 1, 3.9% doesn't move
SHRTFT 2, between 0.8% and -7%
LONGFT 2, 4.7% doesn't move

SHRTFT B1 S1, between -2.3% and -5%
SHRTFT B1 S2, 99.2%
SHRTFT B2 S1, between 2.3% and -3.7%
SHRTFT B2 S2, 99.2%

I just cleared that code, I went over to the other section of my scanner(above code was from module $18 in OBDII, below codes are in the full vehicle scan section)
And I have a ton of codes over here(I think these are all really old as I haven't had heavy misfires that feel like more than one cylinder in the last ten days(and I didn't clear this last night) but here they are.

DME: trimming, oxygen sensor behind cat bank 2

DME: misfire cyl 5

DME: misfire cyl 6

DME: misfire cyl 4

DME: flow rate secondary-air system too low bank 2

DME: plausibility, accelerator and brake pedals(WTF!?!?!?)

DME: trimming oxygen sensor before cat bank 2

DME: misfire cyl 3

DME: control frequency oxygen sensor bank 2 incorrect

DME: signal, engine-throttle sensor, potentiometer 1


Now like I said I think these are old as I usually do not go into this section of the scanner to read the codes or clear them. and maybe the pedal and throttle sensor codes could have been from me turning the key to the on position to put the can in neutral and push it when I had all the sensors and shit unplugged because I had the intake manifold out? I cleared them, I'm not thinking they'll come back.

I've got to go cram for a test now! The round trip drive to school and back is about 30 miles, so that should be plenty of data to throw a code, if It doesn't throw a code by the time I get home from that around 9 I'll shut the car off eat and drive for another 30 miles to see if it will. Then I'll post up that code(s) as well. But let me know what you think about what I just uploaded, I think you can disregard the full car scan but let me know what you think.








Sent from BimmerApp mobile app
DNTHATE is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 05:31 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use