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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 06-13-2010, 09:48 PM   #1
6appeal
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LSD's on an E46 ZHP

Looking at my options when it comes to putting a Limited Slip Diff. I would prefer to use an OEM diff so I want to know what is available to me. I know Quaife makes good aftermarket diffs but their website doesn't show a price. So here is my question(s):

1) Can I use an OEM E46 M3 diff?

2) Can I use an OEM E36 M3 diff?

3) Quaife?

4) Other?

I realize using the OEMs may require additional modification like a custom driveshaft, etc.. What exactly need to be modified? Without being a hater, give me your opinion on this.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:27 PM   #2
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1) - Yes and no. Yes you can use it but you will also need to use the entire M3 rear subframe assembly including rear brakes and suspension components. Could probably be found for ~$1000 to $1500, not including labor. You would also need a custom driveshaft unless you get the M3 transmission (add another $2000).

2) - Not without heavy modification to the rear subframe. The mounting locations are completely different between the two. That being said the lsd pack has been retrofitted into the e46 housing, but those that have successfully done so have kept hush hush about it, so there is very little info on how to do it. Look for the other thread in this sub-forum about Differential housings, that's what it's focused on.

3) - I imagine they make a plug and play lsd pack that you would attach your ring gear to and then put inside your diff housing. I don't really have any experience with them sorry..

4) Check out Diffsoline.com. There are many people that have gone that route and been very happy.

Hope that helps.
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Old 06-13-2010, 10:34 PM   #3
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dont do m3 oem lsd god damn horrible I know someone who did it and you may think it wont spin out but he peels like crazy and has no traction what so ever
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Old 06-13-2010, 11:54 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tinkwithanr View Post
1) - Yes and no. Yes you can use it but you will also need to use the entire M3 rear subframe assembly including rear brakes and suspension components. Could probably be found for ~$1000 to $1500, not including labor. You would also need a custom driveshaft unless you get the M3 transmission (add another $2000).
This is somewhat right and wrong.

Since, he have a 330i. He will not need the Rear Brakes. Just Subframe, Rear Diff, and HalfShafts. Depends if he have an Auto or Manual (6 Speed). If he have an Auto he will have to Shorten his DriveShaft.

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Old 06-14-2010, 08:16 AM   #5
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i have a quaife in my zhp, its about the cheapest drop in lsd you can do (shimming still required) i paid 1250 + 100 in parts needed to get it in the car, harold at hpautowerks has them in stock for 3.07 e46's

definately a great mod, no more traction control freaking out in the rain
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Old 06-14-2010, 03:55 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by Anthony@BimmerBrakes View Post
This is somewhat right and wrong.

Since, he have a 330i. He will not need the Rear Brakes. Just Subframe, Rear Diff, and HalfShafts. Depends if he have an Auto or Manual (6 Speed). If he have an Auto he will have to Shorten his DriveShaft.

-Anthony@BimmerBrakes
Really, I didn't know that. Thanks for the correction!
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Old 06-14-2010, 04:58 PM   #7
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I've heard some people complain that the Quaifes are noisy. Otherwise, I've seen nothing but good reviews.

I have a Metric Mechanic 3.15 3 disc LSD. I've been pretty happy with it, DSC comes on a lot less often. It does make my rear end a little more "lively".
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:18 PM   #8
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I've heard some people complain that the Quaifes are noisy. Otherwise, I've seen nothing but good reviews.

I have a Metric Mechanic 3.15 3 disc LSD. I've been pretty happy with it, DSC comes on a lot less often. It does make my rear end a little more "lively".
about what did it run, if u dont mind.
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:27 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by bigjae1976 View Post
I've heard some people complain that the Quaifes are noisy. Otherwise, I've seen nothing but good reviews.

I have a Metric Mechanic 3.15 3 disc LSD. I've been pretty happy with it, DSC comes on a lot less often. It does make my rear end a little more "lively".
my quaife is dead silent, i've never heard it engage, i've always heard the kaaz's were the loud ones though
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:29 PM   #10
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i want a LSD too
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Old 06-14-2010, 05:42 PM   #11
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this looks like a winner right here... i dont know how dude got the Quaife for so cheap, i just checked, and theyre hella expensive.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...CT_ID=BM235-HA
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:25 PM   #12
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this looks like a winner right here... i dont know how dude got the Quaife for so cheap, i just checked, and theyre hella expensive.

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html...CT_ID=BM235-HA
I paid $1,300 for my Quaife, plus $300 for professional installation by rear end experts. I R&R my pumkin myself.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:47 PM   #13
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I've been talking to VAC Motorsport in South Philly and they recommended the Quaife diff. It's suppose to be quite and resemble the way the M3 diff works. I really want the OS Giken unit though, seems better, but a few hundred bucks more.
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Old 06-14-2010, 07:58 PM   #14
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I paid $1,300 for my Quaife, plus $300 for professional installation by rear end experts. I R&R my pumkin myself.
really. hmm.. i must be looking at the wrong places online.
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Old 06-14-2010, 08:03 PM   #15
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really. hmm.. i must be looking at the wrong places online.
I bought mine from this place: http://hpashop.com/main.sc They had a special though.
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Old 06-14-2010, 09:02 PM   #16
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Don't forget about these excellent options:

http://www.koalamotorsport.com/produ...2006+330i%2FCi
and
http://www.performancegearing.com/pricing.php

Had mine for over 2.5 years now (well over 40k miles) and I've been nothing but pleased with my LSD from KMS.
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Old 06-14-2010, 11:57 PM   #17
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What percentage lockup are u guys running. What's the stock M3 diff capable of?
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Old 06-15-2010, 12:13 AM   #18
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I got my quaife conversion kit from http://www.birdsauto.com/ in the UK. Their site showed prices.

Pros:
zero-maintenance
lifetime warranty
silent operation
smooth operation - no jerky clutch engagement to create snap oversteer

Cons:
if one wheel is in the air (or on black ice) it acts just like an open diff - that one wheel will spin (this applies to any torque sensing diff - quaife, torsen, ATB - all the same thing)

Editorial:
Clutch type diffs can really lock the wheels even if one is in the air but the clutch plates can create a lot of heat and wear out every X miles. OS Giken's version uses lots of tiny clutch plates with the goal of making a very cool clutch type diff whose clutch plates last a long time. If I were competing on on a track I'd get the OS Giken but the Quaife rules the road.
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Old 06-15-2010, 08:46 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by snikwad View Post
What percentage lockup are u guys running. What's the stock M3 diff capable of?
I'm running 40% static, I believe the stock e36 M3 diff was 25%. KMS, PG, and diffsonline build units similar in design to the stock e36 M3 diff. These beefed up units have been used in World Challenge and Grand Am racing with years of success. The e46 M3 LSD has no static lockup per se. I wouldn't recommend any more than 40% static lock for street driven cars.

Here's an insightful quote from another forum regarding the e46 M3 diff:
Quote:
The E46 M3 diff is a strange beast. Still a clutch pack, but no ramps or static pre-load. The force pushing the clutch packs together is produced by an internal viscous hydraulic pump. Thus the E46 M3 diff is purely driven by rear wheel speed differential, not by rear wheel torque differential. At the track it seems ok but I do not like it on the auto-x course. There is a noticeable lag time when the rear wheel is spinning until the fluid thickens up and starts to lock the rear wheels. And then it is sort of grabby.
Here's some info directly from Brett Anderson regarding the LSD I had built by Koala Motorsport. This is pieced together from several different emails we exchanged.
General info:
Quote:
The LSD we sell is designed and built for us. It is a 3 clutch unit
with 30/90 asymmetrical ramps and 40% static lock.

The 30/90 describes the angle of the ramps that the cross shafts have to
climb in order to achieve dynamic lock. The shallower the ramp, the
quicker the dynamic lock is applied. (30 degrees in this case). The 90
degree ramp is on the back side, meaning no dynamic lock is applied
during deceleration. This helps ensure that the limited slip does not
force the car to understeer through turns (no more than it currently
does, anyway).

40% is the static lock. This means that 40% of the engine torque would be required to break one wheel loose if the other one was stuck solid to the ground. Basically, this is the amount of allowed slip between the wheels.

With 3 clutches, it has 50% more surface area than an E36 M3 LSD (which it's modeled after), so would last longer, even if we used stock BMW clutches. The clutches we do use are proprietary units with a special coating devised for our application. It is stronger and longer lasting than the original coating on the ZF manufactured units that BMW put in earlier cars.
Regarding warranty:
Quote:
3 year unlimited mile warranty
Regarding durability and rebuilds:
Quote:
Our LSD should run a street car for 150K miles or so before needing freshening. The internal parts are available from us, so anyone who's ever been inside a diff before can go through it. We also offer a $500 freshening service for the original owner.
Like I said, I've had my unit for over 40k miles with no problems and no signs of wear. No noises and no "jerky clutch engagement to create snap oversteer". You can change the "balance" of the car between oversteer and understeer via the throttle but I find this to be smooth and controllable... and a good thing. Only time you might run into problems is if you abruptly lift throttle mid corner (which is rarely a good idea anyway).
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Old 06-15-2010, 09:23 AM   #20
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Originally Posted by TxZHP04 View Post
Like I said, I've had my unit for over 40k miles with no problems and no signs of wear. No noises and no "jerky clutch engagement to create snap oversteer". You can change the "balance" of the car between oversteer and understeer via the throttle but I find this to be smooth and controllable... and a good thing. Only time you might run into problems is if you abruptly lift throttle mid corner (which is rarely a good idea anyway).
Yours sounds totally sweet^
I should point out that my info came from my research a year ago and I didn't find much feedback on the custom clutch-type diffs perhaps because, well....they're custom - but clearly there are great options to consider. Also, at the time mine was installed, the shop owner doing the install, who raced E46's, was pretty excited about the OS Giken he was getting for his car and explained track situations where it would give him an edge*. And when I was shopping, the price seemed a lot higher for the custom clutch type units vs. the quaife conversion kit. This was mainly because, with those, you were sent the whole pumpkin ready to swap in - not just the internals. This is a huge convenience factor that keeps the job simple and predictable. The shop that did my install sent my stock pumpkin out to a specialist to have the conversion kit installed and, in terms of time and cost, things added up.

*plus - let's be honest - who doesn't like to say OS Giken?
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