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Old 04-13-2003, 06:20 PM   #1
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Lightweight Flywheel Chatter Issue Discussion:

I have read through tons of post on this issue and I am about to get my Fidenza 13lbs flywheel installed soon.

From Rob@UUC: he recommends REDLINE MT90 transmission oil change. While RE recommends to use their sprung hub design clutch to eliminate the chatter.

I was wondering who actually tried changing their transmission fluid to REDLINE MT90 or other fluids for that matter and noticed a decrease in chatter after they installed their ltw flywheel?

There is this other one that RE recommends: Royal Purple Sycromax Transmission Fluid.

Any feedback, greatly appreciated.
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Old 04-27-2003, 12:42 AM   #2
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:sad: no one changed their flywheel
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Old 04-27-2003, 12:46 AM   #3
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Old 04-27-2003, 03:13 AM   #4
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dude... i know how to use the search function...i surf this forum like couple of hours a day to know how to use that. AFTER reading all the posts:

I was just wondering if ppl that did change out their flywheel notice a decrease in chatter when they change out their tranny fluid / change their clutch to a sprung hub design one.
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Old 04-27-2003, 01:29 PM   #5
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I was talking with Marvelphx and I think he has the LTW Flywheel. After changing the fluid he said he had no chatter. Don't quote me though.
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Old 04-27-2003, 02:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by cheffy
dude... i know how to use the search function...i surf this forum like couple of hours a day to know how to use that. AFTER reading all the posts:

I was just wondering if ppl that did change out their flywheel notice a decrease in chatter when they change out their tranny fluid / change their clutch to a sprung hub design one.
When I get my car back, it will have some fresh Redline D4-ATF, so I'll let you know if it chatters or not
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Old 04-27-2003, 03:23 PM   #7
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BimmerJustin, Amir: thanks for the info ~~~
Can't wait to put my flywheel on !!!!
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Old 04-27-2003, 05:36 PM   #8
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Amir's new sig:

Quote:
Originally posted by Amir
sharmuta a la technik
That's really funny when you know what it means!

But on-topic: Redline MT-90 is the way to go.

- Rob
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Old 04-27-2003, 08:46 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks
Amir's new sig:



That's really funny when you know what it means!

But on-topic: Redline MT-90 is the way to go.

- Rob
Thank's Rob .


Anyway Rob, any reason why you recommend the MT-90 over the D4-ATF?
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Old 04-27-2003, 08:58 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amir


Thank's Rob .
I used to know a lot of Lebanese folks, taught me some wicked insults and curses. It's both art and science with them!


Quote:
Originally posted by Amir
Anyway Rob, any reason why you recommend the MT-90 over the D4-ATF?
D4-ATF is the first choice if you have no rattling/chatter, even for smoothing out a completely stock transmission setup. It is the same weight as the OE fluid, but the additive package works better. Best of all, it is still a "spec" fluid in that it is the same sort of synthetic ATF that BMW tells you to use.

The MT-90 is a heavier weight fluid, and the increased viscosity is the principal mechanism by which it damps vibrations, i.e. chatter. In extremely cold climates (such as a Minnesota winter), you may notice the trans will be stiff until it reaches full operating temperature. And finally, although we know by many years of trial-and-error as to what works well in various BMW gearboxes, technically the MT-90 is not the "spec" fluid if you are concerned about such things. It's not like anyone is ever going to perform a chemical analysis and cite you for use of a manual trans lubricant instead of the ATF, but nevertheless the point is there.

So the upgrade path in general is the D4-ATF, and if further improvement is required, then MT-90.

With one exception, I use Redline trans and diff lube in all of my current BMWs and recent past BMWs.

- Rob
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Old 04-27-2003, 09:12 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by Rob Levinson * UUC Motorwerks


I used to know a lot of Lebanese folks, taught me some wicked insults and curses. It's both art and science with them!




D4-ATF is the first choice if you have no rattling/chatter, even for smoothing out a completely stock transmission setup. It is the same weight as the OE fluid, but the additive package works better. Best of all, it is still a "spec" fluid in that it is the same sort of synthetic ATF that BMW tells you to use.

The MT-90 is a heavier weight fluid, and the increased viscosity is the principal mechanism by which it damps vibrations, i.e. chatter. In extremely cold climates (such as a Minnesota winter), you may notice the trans will be stiff until it reaches full operating temperature. And finally, although we know by many years of trial-and-error as to what works well in various BMW gearboxes, technically the MT-90 is not the "spec" fluid if you are concerned about such things. It's not like anyone is ever going to perform a chemical analysis and cite you for use of a manual trans lubricant instead of the ATF, but nevertheless the point is there.

So the upgrade path in general is the D4-ATF, and if further improvement is required, then MT-90.

With one exception, I use Redline trans and diff lube in all of my current BMWs and recent past BMWs.

- Rob
Thanks for the information Rob. In that case, it seems like I might as well just go straight to the MT-90, since smootheness and the elimination of as much chatter as possible is what I'm looking for.

Rob,

I was also curious to know if your 8 lbs flywheel made for the e36 m3 will work on an e46 provided the e34 m5 clutch is used?
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Old 04-27-2003, 09:37 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Amir
I was also curious to know if your 8 lbs flywheel made for the e36 m3 will work on an e46 provided the e34 m5 clutch is used?
Nope. Totally different.

- Rob
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Old 05-19-2003, 11:36 AM   #13
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Old 01-05-2004, 06:50 PM   #14
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Just noticed on UUC's site that they are starting to use Redline's ShockProof oil for the transmission when changing out to the UUC flywheel.

Anyone have experience with the Redline ShockProof oil? and how it compares to the previously recommended MT90?

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Old 01-05-2004, 07:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by cheffy
[B]Just noticed on UUC's site that they are starting to use Redline's ShockProof oil for the transmission when changing out to the UUC flywheel.

Anyone have experience with the Redline ShockProof oil? and how it compares to the previously recommended MT90?
FYI - Shockproof comes in three different grades (see http://www.redlineoil.com/redlineoil/spgoti.htm for more details). You don't really look at them as one single product, but three different products that share a single characteristic.

The Redline MT-90 is simply a heavy manual transmission fluid, which helps damp the transmission rattle simply due to the thicker viscosity.

The Shockproof line contains a specific additivie package that gives it better resistance to shear and throw-off... that second part is the important thing in that the fluid, regardless of which of the three weights (Superlightweight, Lightweight, or Heavy), it does not get "spun off" by the rotating gears, so it remains in place as a cushioning agent through the gears' couple/de-couple process (that's where the neutral rattle comes from).

This stickiness is something you can actually see, it's hard to get off anything! I saw a gearset that had been removed from a diff housing, sitting in a storage cabinet for about a year. It was still covered in the stuff, where regular fluid would have run off and left the gearset dry. That sold me right away, there was more to Redline's marketing claims than just smoke and mirrors. It really works as advertised.

This additive also gives the fluid different shear properties, effectively increasing the protection to the next heavier fluid range while maintaining the lower viscosity fluid friction rating.

Pretty trick stuff.

The viscosity ratings still work like they do with conventional MT fluid, the Heavyweight Shockproof still damps best simply due to being heavier... but it does have the same small drawback that MT-90 does, in that the transmission can be a little stiff first thing on a cold winter morning.

We've done a lot of experimenting with these fluids and have come up with our own "blend" that we include with the E46 M3 6-speed complete flywheel/clutch kits. Works really well in cutting down the minor residual tranny rattle, and maintains excellent cold-use characteristics. We can also supply it to anyone who wants to use it.

At this point, I run the various Shockproof fluids in my M5 and 750 - both transmissions and differentials.

- Rob
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:20 PM   #16
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NICE ! Thanks for the detailed explanation. So I guess the next best thing to MT90 would be the Redline Shockproof oil -> Superlightweight (75w90)?
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Old 01-05-2004, 08:32 PM   #17
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I have the UUC Gen II Flywheel with a sprung hub clutch from SPEC. At times I have to remind myself that im not driving a diesel car and that its the flywheel making all that noise. I did not get a chance to change my fluids yet, but I dont see how thats going to reduce the chatter.

On the positive side, the rpms climb like a *****

The noise is well worth it


I have the redline 75w90 gear oil sitting right next to me just, what is this redline MT-90?

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Old 01-05-2004, 10:50 PM   #18
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Quote:
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NICE ! Thanks for the detailed explanation. So I guess the next best thing to MT90 would be the Redline Shockproof oil -> Superlightweight (75w90)?
No, not exactly. At the very least, use the Lightweight. Our best results in the rattle-prone 6-speeds is a mix of 1 part Lightweight and 1 part Heavyweight.

- Rob
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Old 01-06-2004, 01:44 AM   #19
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ok i'm gonna try to use lightweight first and then determine if i need to add some heavyweight to clear out more of the rattle.
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Old 01-06-2004, 03:05 PM   #20
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I am with CrispVX, his chatter is moderately loud.

However...


Rob:

I have an E34, '92 525i non-vanos.. i am under the impression that i should have a dual-mass flywheel, however, i have the exact same noise that CrispVX has (heard both in person). what gives? I really doubt the previous owner did a flywheel upgrade.
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