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Old 05-21-2015, 11:21 PM   #1
Top_Bunk
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I'm sorry, you don't have a license to repair your own car

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GM’s claim is all about copyright and software code, and it’s the same claim John Deere is making about their tractors. The TL;DR version of the argument goes something like this:
  • Cars work because software tells all the parts how to operate
  • The software that tells all the parts to operate is customized code
  • That code is subject to copyright
  • GM owns the copyright on that code and that software
  • A modern car cannot run without that software; it is integral to all systems
  • Therefore, the purchase or use of that car is a licensing agreement
  • And since it is subject to a licensing agreement, GM is the owner and can allow/disallow certain uses or access.
http://consumerist.com/2015/05/20/gm...es-who-own-it/



If I'm reading this right, the outcome of this case could either make things easier or make them even more difficult for indy shops and backyard mechanics. Want to reset your airbag light or CEL? Might need a software license to legally do that, which I'm sure only the dealers will have access to. And you can forget about custom ECU tunes from a local shop.

Thoughts?
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:25 PM   #2
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Old cars are about to become extremely popular.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:33 PM   #3
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i need a boxster.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Top_Bunk View Post
http://consumerist.com/2015/05/20/gm...es-who-own-it/



If I'm reading this right, the outcome of this case could either make things easier or make them even more difficult for indy shops and backyard mechanics. Want to reset your airbag light or CEL? Might need a software license to legally do that, which I'm sure only the dealers will have access to. And you can forget about custom ECU tunes from a local shop.

Thoughts?
This may be an area where more SWEs may want to exploit to provide a service such as resetting CELs and ECU tuning. Upon finding which version of Eclipse IDE I needed to download to practice Java with I found this Eclipse package that contains frameworks and tools for Automotive Developers: https://eclipse.org/downloads/packag...onents/junosr2

I may want to get into this to combine my love for cars and SW together and to help some fellow gearheads.

Last edited by nikkeiS2K; 05-21-2015 at 11:34 PM.
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Old 05-21-2015, 11:41 PM   #5
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This may be an area where more SWEs may want to exploit to provide a service such as resetting CELs and ECU tuning. Upon finding which version of Eclipse IDE I needed to download to practice Java with I found this Eclipse package that contains frameworks and tools for Automotive Developers: https://eclipse.org/downloads/packag...onents/junosr2

I may want to get into this to combine my love for cars and SW together and to help some fellow gearheads.
From the sounds of it there could be a huge market for this, if it could be done legally.

I never thought that the last 7 or so years of rooting/jailbreaking phones would be practice for future car repairs. I can see a similar community developing around it.
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Old 05-22-2015, 12:56 AM   #6
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If this argument they're making becomes more mainstream, I hope people vote with their wallets and cut GM's sales by 25% or more. Same thing for JD.

And that's coming from someone whose grandfather was a Chevrolet dealer. And from someone who used and swore by JD tractors and other products for years on his farm. And from someone who has recently been planning on spending over $100k on a Z07.

If their argument is that my purchase is a licensing agreement, they can pound sand. I'll buy a 911 and be happy about it.
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Old 05-22-2015, 06:28 AM   #7
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soooooooooo, an active autowerke tune, such as i have , is copyright infringement?


lol, i have the dreaded p2237 and p2240 o2 codes that need a reflash to fix , only reason i won't do it is i'll lose my active tune and have to get it done all over again


hey guys, here is a bag of sh!t , but don't open it, it's ours , just carry it around and deal with the smell

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Old 05-22-2015, 12:54 PM   #8
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So this is no different from the EULA you agree to when installing OS X, Windows, etc? Considering most new cars are rolling computers, this doesn't surprise me. Think of all the different things that software touches - throttle, stability control, airbags, electric power steering assist...just to name a few important ones. GM is basically saying "we highly advise you don't modify any part of our software because there is a high risk of fvcking up some other important part of the system."

Enforcement will be difficult, though. People will always find a way to "jailbreak" new software.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:04 PM   #9
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So this is no different from the EULA you agree to when installing OS X, Windows, etc? Considering most new cars are rolling computers, this doesn't surprise me. Think of all the different things that software touches - throttle, stability control, airbags, electric power steering assist...just to name a few important ones. GM is basically saying "we highly advise you don't modify any part of our software because there is a high risk of fvcking up some other important part of the system."

Enforcement will be difficult, though. People will always find a way to "jailbreak" new software.
People don't have collisions with their devices that have been jailborken. Get into a collision and one of the first things first responders will do will pop something into the port and see if anything has been modified. They there may be liability for the collision along with the consequences for modifications.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:11 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by LeMansteve View Post
So this is no different from the EULA you agree to when installing OS X, Windows, etc? Considering most new cars are rolling computers, this doesn't surprise me. Think of all the different things that software touches - throttle, stability control, airbags, electric power steering assist...just to name a few important ones. GM is basically saying "we highly advise you don't modify any part of our software because there is a high risk of fvcking up some other important part of the system."

Enforcement will be difficult, though. People will always find a way to "jailbreak" new software.
They aren't doing this to prevent fvcking up other systems, they are doing it in an effort to pad their bank accounts.

Cars have been run entirely on computers for a decade now, the whole software thing isn't anything new, it's just a lawyer that got a huge bonus because he found this little loophole in getting people to go to the dealer and pay up.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:14 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by LeMansteve View Post
So this is no different from the EULA you agree to when installing OS X, Windows, etc? Considering most new cars are rolling computers, this doesn't surprise me. Think of all the different things that software touches - throttle, stability control, airbags, electric power steering assist...just to name a few important ones. GM is basically saying "we highly advise you don't modify any part of our software because there is a high risk of fvcking up some other important part of the system."

Enforcement will be difficult, though. People will always find a way to "jailbreak" new software.
That's the way I read it, you essentially agree to an EULA when purchasing a vehicle. I would have no problem with GM saying "we advise you to not screw with the software", in fact that would be a wise thing for them to do. My concern is that it could become illegal to touch the computer without GM's consent, leaving open the possibility of shutting out indy and DIY mechanics.

Depending how far they take it, this could make something as simple as an oil change impossible to DIY.
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Old 05-22-2015, 01:51 PM   #12
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I think it's a first step to black boxing cars, which they will need to do as we progress to autonomous cars. They won't want anyone accessing the software in one of these vehicles which might lead to erroneous performance. Hopefully, I'll be long dead before this is fully implemented.
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Old 05-22-2015, 02:27 PM   #13
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follow the money
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:21 AM   #14
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I think it's a first step to black boxing cars, which they will need to do as we progress to autonomous cars. They won't want anyone accessing the software in one of these vehicles which might lead to erroneous performance. Hopefully, I'll be long dead before this is fully implemented.

Exactly.
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:27 AM   #15
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I think it's a first step to black boxing cars, which they will need to do as we progress to autonomous cars. They won't want anyone accessing the software in one of these vehicles which might lead to erroneous performance. Hopefully, I'll be long dead before this is fully implemented.
Yup. OBD3.
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Old 05-23-2015, 08:51 AM   #16
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christ, **** this.

Let's all get E30's.
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Old 05-26-2015, 04:30 AM   #17
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people don't have collisions with their devices that have been jailborken. Get into a collision and one of the first things first responders will do will pop something into the port and see if anything has been modified. They there may be liability for the collision along with the consequences for modifications.
+1
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he's just the resident off-topic ball breaker. Dont take it personally.
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Old 05-26-2015, 08:14 AM   #18
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I doubt they will have much to say about it when they see me rolling in with my sweet new audio upgrade.

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Old 05-26-2015, 08:54 AM   #19
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Oh GM, you're just coming up with new ways to go out of business. How cute.
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