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Old 11-01-2011, 02:36 PM   #241
xixixi
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Originally Posted by gurov View Post
could you please find out shipping to 07728 ? i'd totally jump on that, gather up parts and swap the damn thing. i'm sick of dealing with buggy as hell auto trans control software.
Your PM box is full, delete some things.
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Old 11-01-2011, 02:36 PM   #242
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Your PM box is full, delete some things.
i did. go for it.
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:33 PM   #243
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Originally Posted by gurov View Post
the values in the file are temperatures. 0-1024 is assumed and that's 10 bit adc conversion coming straight off the NTC coupling with stock ecu present (and providing the bias resistor, whatever it is)

the bulge in the hood is fine for now.

i managed to piss the stock ecu off somehow even worse, i lost RPM signal when i was out and about, which shuts off the fuel pump, and unfortunately also shuts off the front fan, no matter how freaking hot the water temp says it is. i am VERY Disappointed in BMW programmers in this regard, it saw temperatures over 240F, and finished cracking my expansion tank, riiiiight around harlem, in manhattan. this basically made the car dump out all its coolant, overheating like a massive *****.

no damage though, i replaced the expansion tank in the parking lot, which was surprisingly easy to do, filled it back up, jumpered the negative terminal of the front fan to negative to get the car home.

i've been too lazy to hook up one of my readers to see what it's actually complaining about, but the standalone still works and can read the RPM perfectly fine.

i'm really wanting to swap to manual trans now, so i need to start looking for one of those and a way to get it into my garage.

car runs like a champ when it's not overheatnig, that's for sure, front fan at full blast keeps the temps at 196, that's also probably without the "performance mode" engaged on the main thermostat.

i'm going to hook the stock fuel pump relay to the standalone box, and hook up another relay for the fan. i will replace the crank angle sensor cause i ordered one.

other than that, i've been driving the car at around 7psi without an issue from the engine, other than the bit mentioned above.

any other questions ?
The front fan is PWM controlled , Dunno about how much Hz but i think i drive mine at 50Hz.
Then modulate speed with 0-94% Duty Cycle(95% to 100% = fan shuts off)

Just unhook the thermostat "characteristic cooling" function by removing the electrical contact from the thermostat
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Old 11-15-2011, 10:41 AM   #244
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Originally Posted by Pir4t View Post
The front fan is PWM controlled , Dunno about how much Hz but i think i drive mine at 50Hz.
Then modulate speed with 0-94% Duty Cycle(95% to 100% = fan shuts off)

Just unhook the thermostat "characteristic cooling" function by removing the electrical contact from the thermostat
that's the WORST advice you could possible give about characteristic cooling and is bound to destroy some ****.

characteristic cooling doesn't open until like 230F, which is the mechanical failsafe. pay attention, this is far too hot and edging into headwarping territory.

fan not running, (and e-thermostat not working, due to this) made me dump coolant all over the FDR, putting me into 240-ish degree territory right around harlem. so if you do ANYTHING at all to map cooling, short it out by taking the pin from the ecu harness and tying it to ground. this puts the thermostat at the coolest setting, preventing any kind of overheating.

you can extract/reinsert the pin without any special tools (nail, ballpoint pen, sharp knife will work), and tie the thing to ground with just a piece of wire. this is a rather simple way to limp home if things aren't going so well with temperature, not that you would know this, cause the stock temp gauge didn't move off the middle when the car was into 240 degrees, steaming from under the hood and dumping coolant all over the place, goooooood going bmw, that'll learn 'em to use gauges.

right now i have fan and characteristic cooling hooked up to the same relay. it has to run for only 30 seconds to drop temp 15-ish degrees, i have it come on at 198 degrees, and turn off at 197, by the time it hits 197, the temp goes waaaaay down, until the car has properly warmed up. i'm talking like 179-ish at the temp sensor (way in the back of the head).

the cooling capacity of this setup with characteristic cooling set to max is absolutely insane. fan on and e-thermostat at full blast, the car will keep idling at 140-150 degrees, and even when driving, won't get past much higher than that. this is stock thermostat housing, stock fans, stock radiator.

i've ordered a turner replacement plate to be able to use purely mechanical thermostats, cause the way i have it set up now (which is lazy way, but whatever) it overcools the engine, i want to be able to maintain a constant temperature.

theoretically, i COULD make map cooling be based off boost vs rpm using generic PWM outputs of my EMS, but that's more things to break. i think i'd much rather use a plain old analog (if you will) thermostat that will keep constant temp without tuning, or asking to have the megasquirt software modified.

in other news, i have an order for an 2012 x3 35i at the local bmw dealer that i'm to pick up sometime mid-december, so this car can be parked again and have its wiring gone through, certain things fixed properly and a 5 speed swapped in so i can have some real fun with it.
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Last edited by gurov; 11-15-2011 at 10:50 AM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 05:53 PM   #245
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Originally Posted by gurov View Post
that's the WORST advice you could possible give about characteristic cooling and is bound to destroy some ****.

characteristic cooling doesn't open until like 230F, which is the mechanical failsafe. pay attention, this is far too hot and edging into headwarping territory.

fan not running, (and e-thermostat not working, due to this) made me dump coolant all over the FDR, putting me into 240-ish degree territory right around harlem. so if you do ANYTHING at all to map cooling, short it out by taking the pin from the ecu harness and tying it to ground. this puts the thermostat at the coolest setting, preventing any kind of overheating.

you can extract/reinsert the pin without any special tools (nail, ballpoint pen, sharp knife will work), and tie the thing to ground with just a piece of wire. this is a rather simple way to limp home if things aren't going so well with temperature, not that you would know this, cause the stock temp gauge didn't move off the middle when the car was into 240 degrees, steaming from under the hood and dumping coolant all over the place, goooooood going bmw, that'll learn 'em to use gauges.

right now i have fan and characteristic cooling hooked up to the same relay. it has to run for only 30 seconds to drop temp 15-ish degrees, i have it come on at 198 degrees, and turn off at 197, by the time it hits 197, the temp goes waaaaay down, until the car has properly warmed up. i'm talking like 179-ish at the temp sensor (way in the back of the head).

the cooling capacity of this setup with characteristic cooling set to max is absolutely insane. fan on and e-thermostat at full blast, the car will keep idling at 140-150 degrees, and even when driving, won't get past much higher than that. this is stock thermostat housing, stock fans, stock radiator.

i've ordered a turner replacement plate to be able to use purely mechanical thermostats, cause the way i have it set up now (which is lazy way, but whatever) it overcools the engine, i want to be able to maintain a constant temperature.

theoretically, i COULD make map cooling be based off boost vs rpm using generic PWM outputs of my EMS, but that's more things to break. i think i'd much rather use a plain old analog (if you will) thermostat that will keep constant temp without tuning, or asking to have the megasquirt software modified.

in other news, i have an order for an 2012 x3 35i at the local bmw dealer that i'm to pick up sometime mid-december, so this car can be parked again and have its wiring gone through, certain things fixed properly and a 5 speed swapped in so i can have some real fun with it.
I agree , dunno what i wrote that for , though it isn't as serious as you said.

Stock DME mainly uses char cooling during WOT, at idle and part load it keeps it almost un-energized.

And OEM thermostat opens at 102C(without char intervention) , failsafe is at 113C(the dme activates char cooling at this point to help the thermostat open)
Temp gauge stays in center between 75 and 110 degrees due to the characteristic cooling

Function of the characteristic map thermostat
The characteristic map thermostat is designed such that it opens (engine inlet) at a coolant temperature at the thermostat of 103oC without intervention of the integrated heating system. Due to the coolant heating up in the engine, a temperature of approx. 110 o C is measured at the point the coolant flows out of the engine (installation location of coolant temperature sensor for DME and instrument cluster gauge). This is the operating temperature of the engine, at which the characteristic map thermostat begins to open without control intervention.
In the event of control intervention by the DME control module, power (12 V) is applied to the heating element integrated in the thermostat. Heating the expansion element means that the thermostat now opens at lower coolant temperatures than would be the case without the additional heating function (thermostat control range: approx. 80oC - 103oC).

Last edited by SweTurbo; 11-15-2011 at 06:36 PM.
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Old 11-15-2011, 08:41 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pir4t View Post
I agree , dunno what i wrote that for , though it isn't as serious as you said.

Stock DME mainly uses char cooling during WOT, at idle and part load it keeps it almost un-energized.

And OEM thermostat opens at 102C(without char intervention) , failsafe is at 113C(the dme activates char cooling at this point to help the thermostat open)
Temp gauge stays in center between 75 and 110 degrees due to the characteristic cooling

Function of the characteristic map thermostat
The characteristic map thermostat is designed such that it opens (engine inlet) at a coolant temperature at the thermostat of 103oC without intervention of the integrated heating system. Due to the coolant heating up in the engine, a temperature of approx. 110 o C is measured at the point the coolant flows out of the engine (installation location of coolant temperature sensor for DME and instrument cluster gauge). This is the operating temperature of the engine, at which the characteristic map thermostat begins to open without control intervention.
In the event of control intervention by the DME control module, power (12 V) is applied to the heating element integrated in the thermostat. Heating the expansion element means that the thermostat now opens at lower coolant temperatures than would be the case without the additional heating function (thermostat control range: approx. 80oC - 103oC).
heh, still unless that front fan is running, it WILL overheat without control.

with the fan going full blast and, what i'm assuming is zero control, of the the thermostat, the car will BARELY hold the 200 mark, that's fan going full blast all the time.
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Old 11-17-2011, 04:14 PM   #247
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gurov, great project ! I'm looking for a new project too (within budget) and i'm thinking of getting a N54B30 335xi Touring and upgrade it.

What numbers for torque and whp are you hitting ? Have you built the engine itself (pistons/rods) ? And are you spraying it with meth ?

greetings,
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Old 11-17-2011, 04:17 PM   #248
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Originally Posted by DubVersion View Post
gurov, great project ! I'm looking for a new project too (within budget) and i'm thinking of getting a N54B30 335xi Touring and upgrade it.

What numbers for torque and whp are you hitting ? Have you built the engine itself (pistons/rods) ? And are you spraying it with meth ?

greetings,
Jeroen
no meth
stock engine
no clue on numbers

this is still automatic trans, but i've got a 5 speed coming to swap into the car. it's kinda quick... i like driving it.

i don't need alky really, j&s takes care of the knock, and i have no reason to run it on the ragged edge.
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Old 11-17-2011, 04:33 PM   #249
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Interesting project, thanks for sharing. Does retaining the stock ECU alongside the Megasquirt mean that ABS works?
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Old 11-17-2011, 04:38 PM   #250
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Interesting project, thanks for sharing. Does retaining the stock ECU alongside the Megasquirt mean that ABS works?
no... i gave up on keeping that working because it depended on the maf.

abs does still work... but trac is busted, i.e. the whole awd system is now junk in snow unless i use brakes myself. getting rid of the maf, stock throttle body, and pissing off the transmission controller pissed the entire **** off enough to disable all the fancy computer things, would be kind of nice to have limited slip front and rear diffs, but that is rather pricy.
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Old 11-17-2011, 04:57 PM   #251
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heh, still unless that front fan is running, it WILL overheat without control.

with the fan going full blast and, what i'm assuming is zero control, of the the thermostat, the car will BARELY hold the 200 mark, that's fan going full blast all the time.
I was assuming the fan worked, if not then yeah you'll warp your engine standing still

EDIT : Oh yeah gurov what rpm do your DISA valva activate at ? No matter what i set mine at afr's always dip down to 11 a couple hundred rpms before it activates ... but once it activates the engine sounds and feels like it got a high lift cam in it
Have you done anything to the vanos (iirc ms3 has support for dual vvti?)

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Old 11-18-2011, 02:38 AM   #252
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Hi gurov,

I was hoping during your tune you made some graphs, but i understand where you coming from. Enjoy your unique ride !!!
greetings,
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Old 11-18-2011, 02:39 AM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pir4t View Post
I was assuming the fan worked, if not then yeah you'll warp your engine standing still

EDIT : Oh yeah gurov what rpm do your DISA valva activate at ? No matter what i set mine at afr's always dip down to 11 a couple hundred rpms before it activates ... but once it activates the engine sounds and feels like it got a high lift cam in it
Have you done anything to the vanos (iirc ms3 has support for dual vvti?)
don't have disa valve. i removed that thing because it couldn't take the boost and was literally creating a giant hole in the manifold. i removed the valve assembly and replaced it with a hand-made aluminum plug that my blowoff valve gets the vac from now.

i have only intake vanos taken over for now, but i just advance the intake cam below boost, once boost hits, i return the cam back to base setting.

i don't really have the patience to tune the cam.
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Last edited by gurov; 11-18-2011 at 02:40 AM.
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Old 11-21-2011, 11:40 PM   #254
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its a good idea to remove the DISA valve, just potential leaks. BMW got rid of that valve years later for a reason, not a significant gain, as gurov said, just tune the intake cam to compensate in + out of boost
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Old 11-22-2011, 01:58 AM   #255
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Small update

Upgraded both controllers for engine and trans, car starts better now on alpha15 of ms3 1.1
Trans shifts smoother, but shift retard is not working right, I am hoping that once it does work, I will get some fireballs out the exhaust pipe.
I have zion thermostat adapter that I need to install instead of char cooling rig, although chat cooling is very attractive as I know there is no way to overheat with it, no matter what I throw at the car.

I need to track down why I lost rpm after the car sat for an hour randomly after working fine. Any no-start problems that you guys are aware of on e46 with 100k-ish miles related to crank angle sensor ?
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:25 AM   #256
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Hi gurov, i don't. Perhaps your question deserves a thread on its own (perhaps at driveline, engine forum ...)
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Old 11-22-2011, 02:27 AM   #257
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Hi gurov, i don't. Perhaps your question deserves a thread on its own (perhaps at driveline, engine forum ...)
eh, i don't care that much. just kind of annoying cause it would be nice to see RPM without glancing at laptop or listening to the engine.

i've got a crank angle sensor replacement hanging out in the door pocket that i need to crawl under the car to install one of these days.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:13 PM   #258
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eh, i don't care that much. just kind of annoying cause it would be nice to see RPM without glancing at laptop or listening to the engine.

i've got a crank angle sensor replacement hanging out in the door pocket that i need to crawl under the car to install one of these days.
Are you running the MS of another trigger than the stock CPS ?

I am running my link on the stock sensor and thgen outputting a tacho signal to the dme's camshaft sensor(as i can't emulate a 60-2 trigger , a 1-1 is fine)

Souds wierd if you get trigger to the MS but not the stock dme
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:14 PM   #259
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Quote:
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Are you running the MS of another trigger than the stock CPS ?

I am running my link on the stock sensor and thgen outputting a tacho signal to the dme's camshaft sensor(as i can't emulate a 60-2 trigger , a 1-1 is fine)

Souds wierd if you get trigger to the MS but not the stock dme
the VR decoding mechanism can cope with some pretty badass failures in ms, which the stock dme might see as bogus data.

i am using stock sensors, MS works perfectly fine,, stock ecu doesn't see rpm.
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Old 11-22-2011, 03:33 PM   #260
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the VR decoding mechanism can cope with some pretty badass failures in ms, which the stock dme might see as bogus data.

i am using stock sensors, MS works perfectly fine,, stock ecu doesn't see rpm.
Didn't know that about MS

With a good sensor i assume you dont have any rpm indicator in the cabin then ?(or do MS and stock DME share the same trigger ?)
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