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General BMW Model Discussion
All non E46 BMW model questions in here. Look below for E36, E90 and F30 specific forum. For additional model specific forums check out bimmerfest.com!

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Old 10-04-2010, 03:05 PM   #81
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so what happened and who the hell are they actually designing for if all the enthusiasts find the cars so damn fugly??
The public, which actually buys cars, compared to the enthusiasts, who drive the old models and just kvetch about the new ones. There's a word for car companies that cater solely to enthusiasts - "bankrupt."
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:52 PM   #82
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I can see how people at BMW see the need for a 1-series with this kind of performance - they're obviously market experts and have determined that the market demands this sort of vehicle. Fine. What I don't understand, however, is what sort of psychotic and backwards market has a "need" for a 400hp econobox - much less for a turbo charged one which can get another 100hp (maybe?) with a simple software reflash. Are you fuckin' kidding me?

At this rate of power increases, the next generation M3 is slated to have almost 500hp - that's Ferrari F430 power for 1/3 the price. If it's FI, which I'm sure it will be, a chip will surely push it WAAAAY past 500hp...in an "off the shelf" 3 series. I realize the several aftermarket FI tuners are making these sort of power figures in the current M3 and that's fine. The difference is that those companies cater to a very small amount of enthusiasts - indeed, most people who buy M3s are not modding them at all (in my opinion, most "enthusiasts" that have FI cars shouldn't even have them, but that's a whole other rant...).

With this new generation of cars any joe-shmoe can go out and get behind the wheel of some seriously powerful and dangerous machinery...including kids. I dunno about any of you, but that kinda shit scares me. Just think about it, "off the shelf," this new 1-Series has more power than a Ferrari F355. What would you think about a bunch of inexperienced drivers and some teenagers and early 20s kids (who think they are competent drivers) racing around in F355s? It's funny how the "danger" of the car gets lost behind the badge.

I shudder at the site of a neighbor's 16 year-old son in his "murdered out" and "chipped" 335. But a 1-Series M? Gimme a fuckin' break.

Oh, as for the "responsible" adults buying this pocket rocket up...they're still going to look like a bunch of Nancys "cruising" in a 1-Series
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Old 10-04-2010, 03:54 PM   #83
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1 series an econobox?
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he's just the resident off-topic ball breaker. Dont take it personally.
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Old 10-04-2010, 04:06 PM   #84
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1 series an econobox?
If we're talking about physical size, yes.
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:29 PM   #85
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Old 10-04-2010, 06:37 PM   #86
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I can see how people at BMW see the need for a 1-series with this kind of performance - they're obviously market experts and have determined that the market demands this sort of vehicle. Fine. What I don't understand, however, is what sort of psychotic and backwards market has a "need" for a 400hp econobox - much less for a turbo charged one which can get another 100hp (maybe?) with a simple software reflash. Are you fuckin' kidding me?

At this rate of power increases, the next generation M3 is slated to have almost 500hp - that's Ferrari F430 power for 1/3 the price. If it's FI, which I'm sure it will be, a chip will surely push it WAAAAY past 500hp...in an "off the shelf" 3 series. I realize the several aftermarket FI tuners are making these sort of power figures in the current M3 and that's fine. The difference is that those companies cater to a very small amount of enthusiasts - indeed, most people who buy M3s are not modding them at all (in my opinion, most "enthusiasts" that have FI cars shouldn't even have them, but that's a whole other rant...).

With this new generation of cars any joe-shmoe can go out and get behind the wheel of some seriously powerful and dangerous machinery...including kids. I dunno about any of you, but that kinda shit scares me. Just think about it, "off the shelf," this new 1-Series has more power than a Ferrari F355. What would you think about a bunch of inexperienced drivers and some teenagers and early 20s kids (who think they are competent drivers) racing around in F355s? It's funny how the "danger" of the car gets lost behind the badge.

I shudder at the site of a neighbor's 16 year-old son in his "murdered out" and "chipped" 335. But a 1-Series M? Gimme a fuckin' break.

Oh, as for the "responsible" adults buying this pocket rocket up...they're still going to look like a bunch of Nancys "cruising" in a 1-Series
when will the insurance companies catch wind and decide anything turbo is bad?
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Old 10-04-2010, 07:05 PM   #87
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Originally Posted by FTWeisse View Post
I can see how people at BMW see the need for a 1-series with this kind of performance - they're obviously market experts and have determined that the market demands this sort of vehicle. Fine. What I don't understand, however, is what sort of psychotic and backwards market has a "need" for a 400hp econobox - much less for a turbo charged one which can get another 100hp (maybe?) with a simple software reflash. Are you fuckin' kidding me?

At this rate of power increases, the next generation M3 is slated to have almost 500hp - that's Ferrari F430 power for 1/3 the price. If it's FI, which I'm sure it will be, a chip will surely push it WAAAAY past 500hp...in an "off the shelf" 3 series. I realize the several aftermarket FI tuners are making these sort of power figures in the current M3 and that's fine. The difference is that those companies cater to a very small amount of enthusiasts - indeed, most people who buy M3s are not modding them at all (in my opinion, most "enthusiasts" that have FI cars shouldn't even have them, but that's a whole other rant...).

With this new generation of cars any joe-shmoe can go out and get behind the wheel of some seriously powerful and dangerous machinery...including kids. I dunno about any of you, but that kinda shit scares me. Just think about it, "off the shelf," this new 1-Series has more power than a Ferrari F355. What would you think about a bunch of inexperienced drivers and some teenagers and early 20s kids (who think they are competent drivers) racing around in F355s? It's funny how the "danger" of the car gets lost behind the badge.

I shudder at the site of a neighbor's 16 year-old son in his "murdered out" and "chipped" 335. But a 1-Series M? Gimme a fuckin' break.

Oh, as for the "responsible" adults buying this pocket rocket up...they're still going to look like a bunch of Nancys "cruising" in a 1-Series
Well said. I agree with you 100%!!
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Old 10-05-2010, 01:06 PM   #88
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If we're talking about physical size, yes.
thats not what determines an econobox?

and by that logic..e30, e36 are econobox's? as they share similar sized interiors?

I understand what you were trying to say, but 1 =\= econobox
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he's just the resident off-topic ball breaker. Dont take it personally.
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Old 10-05-2010, 02:42 PM   #89
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thats not what determines an econobox?

and by that logic..e30, e36 are econobox's? as they share similar sized interiors?

I understand what you were trying to say, but 1 =\= econobox
Cars are getting bigger - by today's standards, the real estate in an E30 coupe might be considered an econobox. However, I'm willing to bet the 1 Series is still smaller inside than an E30 coupe...especially the 1 Series hatch. In any event, E30s are from a different generation - the econoboxes of the E30 years would be the likes of the Geo Metro. Today, cars are much bigger so I don't think it's incorrect to classify a car the size of a 1 Series to be an econobox. Afterall, doesn't it appear that this Series is BMW's answer to an econobox? BMW did it with the E36ti and E46ti, too. Now it just has a 1 Series. They're all the german answer for luxury econoboxes.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't smaller cars. Of course, we have others like the Smart cars etc. etc. etc. Europe especially gets some tiny cars. However, as far as the American market is concerned, this car is among the smallest in the marketplace. Therefore, it is an Econobox.
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Old 10-05-2010, 10:30 PM   #90
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Originally Posted by FTWeisse View Post
I can see how people at BMW see the need for a 1-series with this kind of performance - they're obviously market experts and have determined that the market demands this sort of vehicle. Fine. What I don't understand, however, is what sort of psychotic and backwards market has a "need" for a 400hp econobox - much less for a turbo charged one which can get another 100hp (maybe?) with a simple software reflash. Are you fuckin' kidding me?

At this rate of power increases, the next generation M3 is slated to have almost 500hp - that's Ferrari F430 power for 1/3 the price. If it's FI, which I'm sure it will be, a chip will surely push it WAAAAY past 500hp...in an "off the shelf" 3 series. I realize the several aftermarket FI tuners are making these sort of power figures in the current M3 and that's fine. The difference is that those companies cater to a very small amount of enthusiasts - indeed, most people who buy M3s are not modding them at all (in my opinion, most "enthusiasts" that have FI cars shouldn't even have them, but that's a whole other rant...).

With this new generation of cars any joe-shmoe can go out and get behind the wheel of some seriously powerful and dangerous machinery...including kids. I dunno about any of you, but that kinda shit scares me. Just think about it, "off the shelf," this new 1-Series has more power than a Ferrari F355. What would you think about a bunch of inexperienced drivers and some teenagers and early 20s kids (who think they are competent drivers) racing around in F355s? It's funny how the "danger" of the car gets lost behind the badge.

I shudder at the site of a neighbor's 16 year-old son in his "murdered out" and "chipped" 335. But a 1-Series M? Gimme a fuckin' break.

Oh, as for the "responsible" adults buying this pocket rocket up...they're still going to look like a bunch of Nancys "cruising" in a 1-Series
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTWeisse View Post
If we're talking about physical size, yes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by FTWeisse View Post
Cars are getting bigger - by today's standards, the real estate in an E30 coupe might be considered an econobox. However, I'm willing to bet the 1 Series is still smaller inside than an E30 coupe...especially the 1 Series hatch. In any event, E30s are from a different generation - the econoboxes of the E30 years would be the likes of the Geo Metro. Today, cars are much bigger so I don't think it's incorrect to classify a car the size of a 1 Series to be an econobox. Afterall, doesn't it appear that this Series is BMW's answer to an econobox? BMW did it with the E36ti and E46ti, too. Now it just has a 1 Series. They're all the german answer for luxury econoboxes.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't smaller cars. Of course, we have others like the Smart cars etc. etc. etc. Europe especially gets some tiny cars. However, as far as the American market is concerned, this car is among the smallest in the marketplace. Therefore, it is an Econobox.
haters gonna hate. This car will be a track monster for true enthusiasts
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Old 10-05-2010, 11:48 PM   #91
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Depends on when you compare econoboxes.

I dont think we can call cars econoboxes based solely on size. The matrials and engineering that goes into bmw's and other high end german cars is much to respectable to bring it down to the level of a geo metro.

Small cars, yes. econoboxes, no.

By this logic, a lotus exige would be an econobox

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haters gonna hate. This car will be a track monster for true enthusiasts
more ppl will buy it because its cute and the most expensive version ("nicest BMW")
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Old 10-06-2010, 02:02 AM   #92
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The public, which actually buys cars, compared to the enthusiasts, who drive the old models and just kvetch about the new ones. There's a word for car companies that cater solely to enthusiasts - "bankrupt."
Well said... but the word isn't "bankrupt" it's "British"
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:18 AM   #93
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With this new generation of cars any joe-shmoe can go out and get behind the wheel of some seriously powerful and dangerous machinery...including kids. I dunno about any of you, but that kinda shit scares me. Just think about it, "off the shelf," this new 1-Series has more power than a Ferrari F355. What would you think about a bunch of inexperienced drivers and some teenagers and early 20s kids (who think they are competent drivers) racing around in F355s? It's funny how the "danger" of the car gets lost behind the badge.

I shudder at the site of a neighbor's 16 year-old son in his "murdered out" and "chipped" 335. But a 1-Series M? Gimme a fuckin' break.

Oh, as for the "responsible" adults buying this pocket rocket up...they're still going to look like a bunch of Nancys "cruising" in a 1-Series
uh. there's already tons of fast cars that are affordable to young, stupid people. evo? sti? when's the last time you saw someone over the age of 25 driving one of them responsibly? and we can probably agree there's few things douchier/more dangerous than a high school kid in a mustang. the world isn't going to end because there's a $45,000 M.

besides, in terms of price and power, the 1 series M is roughly what the M3 was just a couple generations ago, and that's sort of the point.

u mad?
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Old 10-06-2010, 08:24 AM   #94
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Agreed

Also... fast and dangerous cars are a very important part of Darwinism - we no longer have natural predators so the prevalence of cheap fast dangerous cars is an excellent way to cull the stupid members of the herd before they are old enough to breed and ruin the breed with their seed - ROFL!
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Old 10-06-2010, 11:56 AM   #95
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It's just my opinion
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Old 10-06-2010, 03:57 PM   #96
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It's just my opinion
and everyones entitled to one
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Old 10-06-2010, 04:41 PM   #97
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Cars are getting bigger - by today's standards, the real estate in an E30 coupe might be considered an econobox. However, I'm willing to bet the 1 Series is still smaller inside than an E30 coupe...especially the 1 Series hatch. In any event, E30s are from a different generation - the econoboxes of the E30 years would be the likes of the Geo Metro. Today, cars are much bigger so I don't think it's incorrect to classify a car the size of a 1 Series to be an econobox. Afterall, doesn't it appear that this Series is BMW's answer to an econobox? BMW did it with the E36ti and E46ti, too. Now it just has a 1 Series. They're all the german answer for luxury econoboxes.

Now, that's not to say that there aren't smaller cars. Of course, we have others like the Smart cars etc. etc. etc. Europe especially gets some tiny cars. However, as far as the American market is concerned, this car is among the smallest in the marketplace. Therefore, it is an Econobox.
i say provide proof and numbers for your claim


I think you are using the term incorrectly, as econobox car isnt based solely on size like you are using it as, even tho i understand what you mean by "econobox in terms of size"......the term econo box is termed such because the car provides an economical car for someone to own. there is nothing econobox about the 1series or any luxury car at all.



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Depends on when you compare econoboxes.

I dont think we can call cars econoboxes based solely on size. The matrials and engineering that goes into bmw's and other high end german cars is much to respectable to bring it down to the level of a geo metro.

Small cars, yes. econoboxes, no.

By this logic, a lotus exige would be an econobox....
+1
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he's just the resident off-topic ball breaker. Dont take it personally.

Last edited by coco savage; 10-06-2010 at 04:45 PM.
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Old 10-06-2010, 09:31 PM   #98
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By this logic, a lotus exige would be an econobox
Don't be so dramatic. A lotus exige is not an econobox by any logic whatsoever. It's a go-cart with two chairs in it. There's nothing economical about it...
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Old 10-07-2010, 11:23 AM   #99
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I'm excited about this car. I think it will have some kind of m3 csl feeling
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Old 10-07-2010, 12:42 PM   #100
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this car is gonna be perfect for a performance minded enthusiast, its gonna have a combination of looks, performance, weight, size, and handles. not to mention factory turbos which can be tuned to make this into a monster. who wants a big ass boat to throw on the street taking up all the room not me, i would rather have a pocket rocket half the size and weight of your v10 and smash on you and look good doin it.
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