E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > E46 Convertible

E46 Convertible
The E46 vert forum. Talk about dropping your E46 top here.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 09-05-2010, 01:26 PM   #1
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Attention vert gurus! top lid not latching

My lid on the storage compartment for the top is not latching when putting the top down. All seems to be working properly, but the lid does not latch all the way down, and will bounce up when driving.

No lights are on, the top operates properly other than this issue. It just started doing this yesterday after I put the top down.

When the top is up, it seems to latch properly. The drive unit under the rear seat seems to be working properly, it pulls the cables in and out.

Any ideas?
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 09-05-2010, 02:24 PM   #2
Zyaltr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Long Island
Posts: 341
My Ride: 01-325cic,08-750Li
Hope this helps
Attached Files
File Type: pdf BMW convertible top info.pdf (750.2 KB, 731 views)
Zyaltr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 02:39 PM   #3
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Thanks for the pdf of the manual. Found that earlier on a search. Everything seems to be functioning fine, according to the manual. All functions seem to work properly, its just the last step of the top lowering process that seems to latch, but does not.
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 02:40 PM   #4
i_ween
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tar Valon
Posts: 646
My Ride: '02 330Ci Vert
In for info. One side of my top compartment doesn't close tight. Fortunately, one side is tight, so it doesn't raise up while driving. I have been meaning to replace the latch on that side, though it does seem to tighten with the top up. Not sure if maybe a sensor is out somewhere...

btw: the manual is not helpful to me. Though, maybe to someone with a deeper working knowledge of sensors...
__________________
-Derek



check out my astrophotography:
www.gil-galad.com
i_ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 03:37 PM   #5
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
I can see that there is an adjustment on the cables in the unit under the seat. I wonder if they need to be adjusted tighter? 9 years of the top going up and down could stretch these out to where they would barely grab, or not at all.
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 05:54 PM   #6
i_ween
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tar Valon
Posts: 646
My Ride: '02 330Ci Vert
^^ I noticed that, too. I wonder if maybe a little tightening on those lines might help.
__________________
-Derek



check out my astrophotography:
www.gil-galad.com
i_ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 07:50 PM   #7
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Tried tighten some slack out of these, but nothing changed. I just returned them to the previous setting they were on.
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 08:03 PM   #8
iansanderson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 2,778
My Ride: 2001 330CiC
sounds like the latching unit is not working properly. best thing you can do is remove the rear seat bottom and check to see if it is releasing/latching when you raise and lower the top. it's the first and last thing to operate during the raise/lowering sequence as it relates to the rear compartment cover. if it's not moving, some people have been able to fix it by manually latching it using the supplied allen wrench. somehow it "reinitialized" the system in their case.

if it is functioning, check the cables and possibly lube the latches on both sides of the top cover.

if all else fails, it will probably need replaced as one of the gears is broken internally or the motor is bad.
__________________



Cheat Sheet:

GT1/ISIS/MoDiC = Factory authorized diagnostic system used by BMW dealerships across the world.

NCS Expert = BMW Factory R&D programming tool available on the internet (not intended for the public and not available to the dealership network)

OEM = Genuine BMW part only available from a franchised BMW dealership.

DME = Engine Management Computer
iansanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 08:24 PM   #9
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 9,604
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Search on the forums and see if you can find more info on the motor under the rear arm rest. As I recall, there is a gear in the top of the motor that a plastic gear that can break that then will render the rear top storage cover latch inoperable.

If my memory is correct, the top is hydraulic, but the rear cover is operated with the motor and cables that are under the rear center armrest area??

There was a Fanatic that had a broken gear and he rigged something up to make it work. The problem is this motor and gears are only available as a single, expensive unit as I recall?

Good luck and let us know if this info is helpful.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-05-2010, 08:43 PM   #10
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 9,604
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
Found the post I was thinking about***********:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...t=plastic+gear

Hope this is helpful.
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 07:53 PM   #11
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansanderson View Post
sounds like the latching unit is not working properly. best thing you can do is remove the rear seat bottom and check to see if it is releasing/latching when you raise and lower the top. it's the first and last thing to operate during the raise/lowering sequence as it relates to the rear compartment cover. if it's not moving, some people have been able to fix it by manually latching it using the supplied allen wrench. somehow it "reinitialized" the system in their case.

if it is functioning, check the cables and possibly lube the latches on both sides of the top cover.

if all else fails, it will probably need replaced as one of the gears is broken internally or the motor is bad.

I removed the rear seat cushion, and checked the gears. They are turning and moving the cables in and out properly. It only turns the gears one direction.

To me it seems like the latches are working, but only half the time. It secures the lid whenever the top is closing. It just does not grab when the lid shuts on the end of the opening sequence.

I am going to try to lube the latches, what kind of lube should I use? I have white lithium grease, would that be appropriate?
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 07:55 PM   #12
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Found the post I was thinking about***********:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...t=plastic+gear

Hope this is helpful.
This was helpful, my plastic looks to be in good shape. It looks to be in good condition. It does not look like any of the pics in the thread you provided.

I fear I may be on my way to the dealer soon.
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 08:47 PM   #13
iansanderson
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Northeast Ohio
Posts: 2,778
My Ride: 2001 330CiC
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooredhots View Post
I removed the rear seat cushion, and checked the gears. They are turning and moving the cables in and out properly. It only turns the gears one direction.

To me it seems like the latches are working, but only half the time. It secures the lid whenever the top is closing. It just does not grab when the lid shuts on the end of the opening sequence.

I am going to try to lube the latches, what kind of lube should I use? I have white lithium grease, would that be appropriate?

how are you sure it's latching the top cover if the convertible top is pressing on it? do you stop the top and check it before the rear part is lowered?

Did you try pressing the emergency release button on the motor?
__________________



Cheat Sheet:

GT1/ISIS/MoDiC = Factory authorized diagnostic system used by BMW dealerships across the world.

NCS Expert = BMW Factory R&D programming tool available on the internet (not intended for the public and not available to the dealership network)

OEM = Genuine BMW part only available from a franchised BMW dealership.

DME = Engine Management Computer
iansanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 09:29 PM   #14
i_ween
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tar Valon
Posts: 646
My Ride: '02 330Ci Vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooredhots View Post
I removed the rear seat cushion, and checked the gears. They are turning and moving the cables in and out properly. It only turns the gears one direction.

To me it seems like the latches are working, but only half the time. It secures the lid whenever the top is closing. It just does not grab when the lid shuts on the end of the opening sequence.

I am going to try to lube the latches, what kind of lube should I use? I have white lithium grease, would that be appropriate?
This is exactly what is happening to my passenger side latch. Mine are pretty well lubed. I didn't lube them; they were lubed when I got the car. I think the issue was noticed before I got the car, and someone tried to fix it. I came to the conclusion that I should replace the latch itself, about $50USD used. It is called the "top lid latch."
__________________
-Derek



check out my astrophotography:
www.gil-galad.com
i_ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 10:04 PM   #15
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by iansanderson View Post
how are you sure it's latching the top cover if the convertible top is pressing on it? do you stop the top and check it before the rear part is lowered?

Did you try pressing the emergency release button on the motor?

I did press on the emergency release button, then released and cycled the top to try to latch, no success.

I found out this evening, that you are correct. The top is pressing down on the lid, it is not latching. I stopped the top operation at various times. The motor under the seat is operating, but the latches are not working at any point in time during the operation.

I wonder if 2 $50 latches will fix my issue, or if a microswitch is keeping them from latching.

Does anyone know how to troubleshoot the microswitches?
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 10:38 PM   #16
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 9,604
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
But it is possible that the motor under the armrest is working, but the gear is popped like the link I posted or maybe the cable(s) may not be attached??

What you may want to try is open the top, push the emergency release and use the hex wrench to cycle the motor to see if the latches work?? Not sure, but you should be able to do this??

If the latches do not work when manually operating the system, then the cable(s) or gears must have a problem?

This is just a guess, but it is probably worth a try?
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-06-2010, 10:44 PM   #17
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 9,604
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
From page 28 of the manual supplied in the first link:

Emergency Operation
Emergency locking/unlocking of the top storage
cover is carried out at the motor assembly.
The motor assembly is accessed by removing
the center arm rest and lifting the seat upholstery
below the ski bag.
Pressing the button on the motor assembly will
release the motor from the gear linkage.
The linkage assembly can then be turned,
through the access hole in the motor assembly
cover, using the hand crank stored on the
assembly cover. This will unlock/lock the storage
cover locks for manually raising the top
.

Sounds like you should be able to manually lock or unlock the storage compartment lid manually. If this works, then you have a gear or sensor issue?
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 04:25 PM   #18
tooredhots
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: new mexico
Posts: 110
My Ride: '01 325ci vert
Fixed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
But it is possible that the motor under the armrest is working, but the gear is popped like the link I posted or maybe the cable(s) may not be attached??

What you may want to try is open the top, push the emergency release and use the hex wrench to cycle the motor to see if the latches work?? Not sure, but you should be able to do this??

If the latches do not work when manually operating the system, then the cable(s) or gears must have a problem?

This is just a guess, but it is probably worth a try?
Fixed! Your post made me really look at the link with pictures and compare in detail how the gears and cabling should look. I head back out one last time to see if I could do anything before taking it in to the dealership.

Turns out the crimped connector was catching on the arm that draws the cables into the motor unit under the seat cushion.

The picture shows the right cable how it should be, and the left is how they both were incorrectly routed.

I thought everything was ok, because they were both caught on the arm in the same way. I did not notice that they were curved to hinge on the arm.
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	IMG_2903.JPG
Views:	451
Size:	185.8 KB
ID:	374787  
__________________

Bone stock, style 68s FTW!

Last edited by tooredhots; 09-08-2010 at 04:26 PM.
tooredhots is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 06:15 PM   #19
i_ween
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Tar Valon
Posts: 646
My Ride: '02 330Ci Vert
Quote:
Originally Posted by tooredhots View Post
Fixed!

The picture shows the right cable how it should be, and the left is how they both were incorrectly routed.
Is that inside the box under the back seat? If so, I want to check mine...
__________________
-Derek



check out my astrophotography:
www.gil-galad.com
i_ween is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-08-2010, 07:42 PM   #20
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 9,604
My Ride: '06 330CiC, '03 M5
So the question is did something come loose, break or just get out of alignment?

In your picture, it looks like there may be a nut in the inside of the box that was removed and the cable entry nut may be backed out on one side?

Do you think the cable entry nuts are for cable length/latch adjustment.

Glad you found the issue. I think all us Vert owners need to share our issues as I really do not think the dealers understand these cars at all. I had to go round and round with my dealer to reset the window pinch senors, after the dealer changed the battery. I was told I needed both window motors replaced, I said hell no!! Adjust the window pinch sensors. In the long run the car did not need parts or taken apart!
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:02 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use