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Motorsports & Track Forum
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast

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Old 11-28-2010, 01:29 AM   #21
Andy2108
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Nope, tagged at 85 but he told us he'd ticket for like 74 in a 65.

Ive done the whole "snow thing" and really anything more than 1/2" on my summer tires would be nearly impossible to get home. Ill be running snows this year so Ill get some more low traction experience in.

I agree, gotta learn the eazy setup before moving on to a more aggressive suspension. I do want to upgrade though - but to nothing more serious than some lowering springs (-1") and HD sports shocks in the beginning. the only drawback I see is the handling characteristics changing enough to throw me off a bit.
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:37 AM   #22
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Quote:
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Nope, tagged at 85 but he told us he'd ticket for like 74 in a 65.

Ive done the whole "snow thing" and really anything more than 1/2" on my summer tires would be nearly impossible to get home. Ill be running snows this year so Ill get some more low traction experience in.

I agree, gotta learn the eazy setup before moving on to a more aggressive suspension. I do want to upgrade though - but to nothing more serious than some lowering springs (-1") and HD sports shocks in the beginning. the only drawback I see is the handling characteristics changing enough to throw me off a bit.
You guys got pretty lucky in that case, and I guess the cop was dumb enough to not notice he lost serious distance on you guys! lol

oh, and don't run summer tires in snow for any reason..
You wont learn jack sh!t because all they do is slide.
They are a completely different compound which doesnt grip at all in snow so you can end up hitting a curb because it takes forever to stop and you destroying your suspension or your car if you hit someone on your way home.. Not saying that will happen, but it could, and if it does, it wont be pretty.
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:49 AM   #23
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oh, I know! My drive home is like 2.5 miles and has two turns, not counting parking lots or my driveway, so I was pretty lucky there. I knew I had 0 traction so I was braking miles ahead and all that fun stuff. I did have a friend in a H2 following me... so that was nice

Ya, um, my summer stickies turn to like a hard plastic like density in the cold. I've had to drive them in like 35-40*f and a bit drizzly this year and that sucks too. The strange thing is is my dad's porsche was doing fine - I was following him. I had like 1/3 the traction he had

I have Goodyear Eagle F1 Asymetrics, he has Perrelli p-zero's, both High performance Summer.
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Old 01-01-2011, 11:02 PM   #24
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I might go to Mazda Raceway Laguna Seca for Skip Barber over spring break this year
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Old 01-02-2011, 07:29 AM   #25
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Also this might sound dumb, but I learned a lot of my cars weight transfer capabilities on snow/ice.:
No you didn't. "Sliding" is snow has no correlation to the way a car behaves on a summer street, much less the track.
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Old 01-04-2011, 07:01 PM   #26
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I have also have been very interested in cars/racing since I was very young. Hence, why I bought and rebuilt my car. Anyway, I also have spent countless hours on racing games (GTR 2/Evo with a Logitech G25), but as you said, they're just games. I've been driving my car for 8 months now, and so far I've done two auto-x's, one auto-x school, and one safety school. This upcoming year I'm planning on doing all 8 of the auto-x's with the CCA and also a 3-day track event at Limerock in July.

I started off with the Safety Class here: http://www.streetsurvival.org/ and honestly that was a lot of fun and I had a really good instructor with me teaching me a lot. It was good bang for the buck. After that I did one Auto-X which I did fine in (6-8 in my class) and had a ton of fun. Next, I did the Auto-X school and that was great in that I had a TON of seat time and learned a lot. I did the last Auto-X of the year with the CCA in October and came in 7-10 in my class. Autocross is one of the best ways to start off learning and they're cheap and a ton of fun. The people there are great and with 100+ cars running (at least here in MA) it's just really cool to be at. The instructors are always willing to help you learn and the best part is you really can't do any damage to yourself or others and it's legal! The tracks around here also require you're 18 so I'll finally be eligible to do those in April. I've had little time in Karts (4 times?) because many of the Kart tracks around here also require you're 18 but I plan on doing that as well this year.

So, overall, I'd say sign up with the local CCA (if you want other clubs too) and do some Autocross events. Continue with the Karting and even the video games and you can move on to the track itself when you're old enough. Even just Autocross is a ton of fun, I can't wait to get on the track for real!
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Old 01-04-2011, 08:51 PM   #27
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Like I said, I might get to do some skip barber stuff over spring break. Im also going to see what I can do about auto x events this next season. Im already a member of the PCA (porche club of america) Cobra club of america, and BMWCCA. Between those there will be a bunch of events, but also around here you dont need to be a club member to participate. The Audi club puts on alot of events that alot of non-audi cars participate in. I just learned today that the local track out here requires you to be 18 so that is out for sure. Even alot of the parking-lot-based events require 18 years old.

In the past month Ive been karting twice and I think Im going again this weekend. lol
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:28 PM   #28
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Good thread. I'm also 16 and would like to get some performance driving under my belt. In NJ, I'm only allowed to have a permit at 16 and must have a parent with me at all times, so it is a bit tedious dragging my parents around to do the already limited driving options. Over the summer, I did a 2-day teen driving school at the BMW Performance Center in SC and followed that up with a teen driving school with the Audi Club of NJ. I've carted once in my life with NJBMWCCA and did manage to squeeze into the fast run group albeit I was bringin' up the rear.

I really want to start autocross but NJBMWCCA requires drivers to be 18 or older, which is too late of an age in my opinion. PCA doesn't seem to have that requirement, so I may have to try that option. Alas, I drive my mother's X5 and that is one HUGE worry when passing tech. They almost didn't let me drive at the teen driving school with Audi Club since it was a truck. I'm expecting to do the Tire Rack Street Survival School this summer and get some manual transmission driving lessons; I may even boldly try to get a X5 in some autocrosses.
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Old 01-04-2011, 09:55 PM   #29
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Lol, If that X5 gets out on the track were gonna need pics. I'm hoping for ///tripod mode.

Up intill 2010, here in Kansas you could get your permit (parents only) at 14, restricted (school/work alone, otherwise parents present) at 15, and fully unrestricted at 16. Those laws changed now and their extremely stupid. Thankfully Im under the old laws, along with most of my friend, so Im fully unrestricted. My friends from Missouri, however, are under wierd semi-restricted driving laws with the main restriction being only 1 passanger at a time.

Just because of the way I am (observant), learning to drive was pretty uneventful. I got my permit back in 2008 and Ive now been driving for more than 2.5 years. About a month after my 15th birthday I had convinced my dad that I needed to get my car so I could learn stick to be able to drive my self to school for freshmen year. Im quite a bit older then most of the kids in my class so with that and my kansas laws I was able to drive my self to school all freshman year. Ive had my car for about 19 months now and I consider myself a pretty good driver. Not many other kids have a manual by choice. If you ever own a Manual BMW make sure to get the CDV (clutch delay valve) removed. With that still installed you will never be able to shift smoothly. It cost about $40 to have my indy take it out (it involves bleeding the clutch line - DIY no thanks) and it was very, very worth it.
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:28 PM   #30
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Lol, If that X5 gets out on the track were gonna need pics. I'm hoping for ///tripod mode.

Up intill 2010, here in Kansas you could get your permit (parents only) at 14, restricted (school/work alone, otherwise parents present) at 15, and fully unrestricted at 16. Those laws changed now and their extremely stupid. Thankfully Im under the old laws, along with most of my friend, so Im fully unrestricted. My friends from Missouri, however, are under wierd semi-restricted driving laws with the main restriction being only 1 passanger at a time.

Just because of the way I am (observant), learning to drive was pretty uneventful. I got my permit back in 2008 and Ive now been driving for more than 2.5 years. About a month after my 15th birthday I had convinced my dad that I needed to get my car so I could learn stick to be able to drive my self to school for freshmen year. Im quite a bit older then most of the kids in my class so with that and my kansas laws I was able to drive my self to school all freshman year. Ive had my car for about 19 months now and I consider myself a pretty good driver. Not many other kids have a manual by choice. If you ever own a Manual BMW make sure to get the CDV (clutch delay valve) removed. With that still installed you will never be able to shift smoothly. It cost about $40 to have my indy take it out (it involves bleeding the clutch line - DIY no thanks) and it was very, very worth it.
What you used to be able to get your permit at 14? Here in MA we get our permits at 16, licenses at 16.5... maybe that's why most people here suck at driving . I drove my car to school the last 2.5 months of Junior year.

By the way, make sure you turn off DSC when Autocrossing (I'm sure your instructor would tell you anyway) but you'll learn next to nothing with it on.

I need to do the CDV soon, just don't feel like bleeding the clutch in 20 degree weather. Good luck out there!
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Old 01-05-2011, 07:44 PM   #31
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Ya, I'm for sure a better driver because of the experiance I have. The kids who haven't had to take such a long wait don't seem as good I guess... but its pretty difficult for me to tell.

Dtc will be off, but I don't know about disabling the virtual lsd. I spin that inside tire pretty easy =/

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Old 01-05-2011, 07:53 PM   #32
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Kansas sounds like heaven for young drivers; similar to the Dakotas allowing licenses as young as 15. Us permit drivers in NJ even need to get orange stickers to notify the police that we don't have a basic license due to Kyleigh's Law. I think we are the strictest state in regards to automobile licenses. 5+ months to go for me to get a restricted license.

Have fun driving guys. I know my X5, even 4 cylinder BMW's, has enough power to get me in more than enough trouble with the law and my life.
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Old 01-05-2011, 08:16 PM   #33
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If you own a 2+ acer peice of land you can get a "farmers permit" that basically let's you drive unlimited starting at 14

Atleast under my laws

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Old 02-01-2011, 10:36 PM   #34
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I tracked my 328 for two years on stock suspension. I had a list of mods I wanted to do just like you but my friends told me it would be me not the suspension that needed tuning, and they were right. My car has seen upwards of 125 on back straight of VIR with stock suspension and although it has body roll it is better for learning your slip angles and friction limits. I would have bought the suspension sooner but every time I had a few extra dollars I would spend it going to the track upgrading me not my car. Now I have ground control race suspension and it's a whole new animal with much better handling but i learned a lot from the stock setup and never felt unsafe after all it is the ultimate driving machine
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Old 02-01-2011, 11:18 PM   #35
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Every one here is giving you sound advise. Since you can't do any DE's until you're 18, get some auto-x time in. Then do some DE's. Start with a stock car. These cars are designed to go fast and hard right from the factory. They can take it! Try to get a ride at a DE! You'll wonder when the heck the driver is going to hit the brakes! The only mod I would recomenf for your first DE would be to change your brake fluid with Motul 600, or ATE blue. Start out slow. Meaning don't expect to be Racer-X right at the get go! I've been doing this for 13 years and now am an instructor with the CCA Puget Sound Region. Am I as fast as the more seasoned instructors? No. But being the fastest shouldn't be your goal. Being fast, smooth, and consistant should. Become a skilled high performance driver and have a BLAST!!!!!
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:52 AM   #36
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One of the local fanatics is an instructor at an event this spring that me and my friends want to be a part of. Its basically an autox clinic. Go in the morning and get some classroom and then go out and in the afternoon run the autox course untill you don't want to run it anymore lol. A pretty good way to get some good experiance for pretty cheap ($70ish)

Motol 600 is a good idea. I have a couple bottles of it somewhere that I could use. Unless the dealer changed the brake fluid durining my inspection II in '09 (doubt it) then its probably about time to change it anyway.

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Old 02-02-2011, 07:04 AM   #37
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Standard 485 DOT 4 brake fluid will be the first thing on the car you will start to over tax at a DE. I'm not so sure you would need higher temp brake fluid for an auto-x. Fresh yes, but higher temp?
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:04 PM   #38
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Thing is, you need plenty of quality track time. This means, long sessions and a car that does not have a bunch of power but can handle and stop. I'd run a bone stock e46 for DE days and invest in a second set of wheels (with track tires) and brakes (race rotors and pads). This way, you don't have to worry about the brakes and tires. Get as much time as you can on the track.

Also, I'd suggest getting a Spec Miata. Amazingly, many top notch drivers have one of these cars and use them to keep sharp when they are not running a real race. The cars fit into a bunch of different classes, they are underpowered, stop and brake decent. They are dirt cheap to operate (when you break it down to a $/hour). Plus you can then outfit it with data and then start to analyze your driving.

Like any sport, you need to practice, practice, practice. You don't want high horsepower, as that will slow down your learning curve.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:17 PM   #39
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I started driving in a 325ix. A little slower than the is but very forgiving. A lot of guys up here around Seattle drive E30's. In fact there is a specific racing class called Pro3. Check it out on Google.
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Old 02-02-2011, 12:28 PM   #40
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Thing is, you need plenty of quality track time. This means, long sessions and a car that does not have a bunch of power but can handle and stop. I'd run a bone stock e46 for DE days and invest in a second set of wheels (with track tires) and brakes (race rotors and pads). This way, you don't have to worry about the brakes and tires. Get as much time as you can on the track.

Also, I'd suggest getting a Spec Miata. Amazingly, many top notch drivers have one of these cars and use them to keep sharp when they are not running a real race. The cars fit into a bunch of different classes, they are underpowered, stop and brake decent. They are dirt cheap to operate (when you break it down to a $/hour). Plus you can then outfit it with data and then start to analyze your driving.

Like any sport, you need to practice, practice, practice. You don't want high horsepower, as that will slow down your learning curve.
Its only money

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