E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Motorsports & Track Forum by BimmerWorld

Motorsports & Track Forum by BimmerWorld
From Auto-X to Trackday to Racing and Professional Motorsports this is the place to discuss making BMWs fast
Sponsored by BimmerWorld

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 02-02-2011, 12:47 PM   #41
Pierce1
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2010
Location: LaConner WA.
Posts: 283
My Ride: 03 330xi
A slippery slope indeed!
Pierce1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-02-2011, 01:52 PM   #42
vaio76109
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: Fort Worth, TX
Posts: 8,828
My Ride: Race Cars
Quote:
Originally Posted by mrshelley View Post
Also, I'd suggest getting a Spec Miata. Amazingly, many top notch drivers have one of these cars and use them to keep sharp when they are not running a real race.
Sir, I take offense.
vaio76109 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 12:16 AM   #43
Ceraq
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Hobe Sound, FL
Posts: 56
My Ride: '03 330i
Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time! Seat time!

There is absolutely no substitute... be it AutoX, DE, karting, gaming. some are better than others, but take everything you can get. Dont wait... go now! do it NOW!

BMW stock susp. is fine for DE or autoX. Its even better for beginners!!! with the stock susp. and street tires you have a nice large transition zone between control and not in control. Also, the street tires squeal loudly so you can tell when you are entering that transition zone. This is good if you have no idea where that zone is to begin with.

PCA, at least in FL, has no age restriction. A local kid drives the snot out of his 944 every time. He's 16 and he is running lap times close to the best spec 944 guys.

IMHO, a nice E46 (not M3) is almost too nice to track, but if its all ya got then its all ya got. If you have the $$ I would suggest a NA 944. Great handling car, no power, and cheap as all get out to run. You dad is already a PCA guy so piggy back on his membership and go driving.

Advice part 2: get some books! these are my two favorites:
Skip Barber: Going Faster (absolute BEST book Ihave ever read)
Ross Bently: Speed Secrets (the 1st one)

READ READ READ READ! I cant tell you how many students come out for their 1st (or even 5th) DE and still have no clue how they should approach a corner and why. If you read these books and understand the theory and idea behind cornering, learn some of the vocabulary, and begin practicing at the slower street speeds you will be a pleasure to instruct and learn more at each event. This will be because the instructor will spend less time helping you stay on the track and more time teaching you how to get the most out of what you are driving at the time.

This also applies to the professional schools like Skippy and Barber. If you hit a few DEs and get some basics out of the way (like how to brake in a straight line, heel and toe down shifting, learning the lingo, etc...) your time will be much better spent when you attend these schools and you will get more for your $.

A point of note: I said practice at slow street speeds. This doesn't mean go out and plow corners at max gs! This means practice looking ahead in the corner, driving a nice perfect line outside-inside-outside corner (even if its a few feet difference as you stay in your lane), practice making every movement smooth and precise (when you speed things up you get sloppy), practice picking a brake pressure so that you come to a stop exactly where you want with out changing the pressure, heel and toe down shift at every moment you can until its something you dont think about anymore, become more aware by observing the driver in front of you so well you can predict when they are going to change lanes... this is all simple stuff to practice on the street and will increase your skills on the track.

Enjoy and welcome to the addiction!

-Michael
__________________
'03 330i Black Sapphire Metalic/Black -- UUC Sways and a few other bits and pieces
'82 911 SC ROW Track Rat -- Full ER PB setup, 22F/29R Hollows, Tarret 22F, 8/9x16 BBS RS, Sparcos, 5 points, etc. etc. etc.
Mechanical and Tire man on the #22 Bullet Racing Porsche Cayman -- 2013 Rolex 24 Hours 2nd in Class!!

Ceraq is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 12:39 AM   #44
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
Thanks for the advice, I am deffiantly doing some autox's this summer and will hopefully get to participate in an instructed auto x event in the spring. Some quick class then out to the course untill you don't want to run it anymore lol.

The books are a good suggestion, ill look into those, thanks.

Thankfully I'm a pretty observant guy and I learn a lot that way. I like to think I'm pretty good at atleast the basics of like braking before the corner then accelerating through, hitting the apex for the best line and ect, but your right, seat time is what I need.

I've been practicing my downshifts (3-2) because I have headers now and it makes an awesome sound lol , but now I just need to get quicker with the clutch and learn to apply the brakes with that downshift.

Dad is a pca member, I'm a bmwcca member. I've got lots of friends that are pretty aware of any upcomming events and I'm gonna try to make it to a bunch this summer.

I know my car will do fine with most corners up to about 30-35. (Not like at a small 4 way intersection, but you get the point) Beyond that and you better be paying attention. The only thing I'm not looking forward to is the understeer... maybe I should run a porsche stagger with my 255's up front and my 235's in the rear lol. Well, my 9.5" wide rims might not fit... we shall see. I have an impact wrentch and jacks so switching wheels isn't a big deal. (Yes I torque them down properly afterwards)

My car will do 120 with ease. It feels quite solid but turns are a bit sketchy... tracks dont have those so not a big deal. I may or may not of been in mexico with my 375 lb 6'8" friend (srs) with my general snow tires (rated 99mph) mounted when this was attempted

Brakes seemed fine but there was a bit of a pulse under braking. (Wasn't abs, I know what that feels like very well) I could bed the brakes to see if that helps, but its probably not a problem.

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Bimmerapp
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-09-2011, 06:23 AM   #45
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 914
My Ride: 2004 330i
I forgot about a 944. Those things are probably the mosr underrated car out there. Most of the weak points on those cars were figured out 25 years ago, they don't have an overabundance of power but can be made to handle real well. I used to race one back in the late 80's plus my dad and I built and ran 3 of them which we ended up winning the 1990 Firehawk championship in GS. Those cars were built like a tank and reliable as can be (we ran 3 to 24 hour races with them).

One thing I'd do, is stop dumping money into a street car. I'd sell your street BMW and get a pickup with an open trailer. Then get a Miata, 944 or e36 and start getting plenty of track time. I'd also invest in a decent data system with a camera (i.e. AIM). As you keep driving, you'll be able to see your progress and even compare data to others. Look at it as a valuable tool.

I only bring this up as I've been in this business for many years and watched people do it the right way and then the wrong way.
__________________

Last edited by mrshelley; 02-09-2011 at 06:26 AM.
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 05:08 PM   #46
rohde88
Registered User
 
rohde88's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 850
My Ride: S2000
Quote:
Originally Posted by Andy2108 View Post
...Im defiantly going to get more involved with that once I get to collage and going in with the most driving experience will be an awesome advantage over other willing drivers. If you dont know what Formula SAE is, its a program where engineering schools build an open wheeled car and go to competitions set on basically an auto-x course. The cars need drivers... being one would be pretty cool!
Are people discouraging from being more involved?

What collage are you going to? paper mache?

All joking aside, FSAE is more than "an auto-x course" there are much longer events, straight line accel. skidpad, and an entire business/presentation/design aspect of the competition. The dynamic component is only part of it.

Anyway, just do lots of auto-x and/or DE and you'll be fine.
__________________
-Ron
rohde88 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2011, 05:13 PM   #47
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
There is also an endurance run iirc

I'm a sophomore, I have no idea where I'm going to college

Sent from my T-Mobile G2 using Bimmerapp
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 12:34 PM   #48
CylonRed
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: SW Ohio
Posts: 784
My Ride: '01 E46 330i sport
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickTizzle View Post
Even if it is, I wouldnt want to hit 100+ on stock suspension.
I guess the stock sport package would give me some confidence, but I would really want a stiffer ride for the track, the car seems too soft at highspeeds, but thats just me.
I could do just a tic shy of 100 in a stock '89 Civic hatchback with over 100K miles on the original suspension at Mid-Ohio Race Course. Did Mid-Ohio about 4 times and Putnam Park 2 times.

BMW won't have any issues as plenty of folks in BMWs went faster.
CylonRed is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2011, 06:42 PM   #49
mrshelley
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Bethlehem, PA
Posts: 914
My Ride: 2004 330i
Just to give you an example of driver talent, at Miller my car was one of the slowest. At Daytona, I had one of the fastest and almost won the darn race. Same car, different drivers.
__________________
mrshelley is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2011, 04:30 PM   #50
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
Summer update.

This spring I did a Tire Rack street survival course. The just helped to get a taste of what an autox is like and what kind of capabilities my car has.

Then I did an autox. Was fine, but I don't think its really my thing. 3x 50-80 seconds isnt much time to really try different stuff.

I went to a track day with a bunch of BMW/E46F friends and there I learned that I could actually drive on the track. All you need is a valid drivers license.

Next track day, I signed up an went for it. I feel like Ive picked up a fair amount of (basic) knowledge just by being involved in the car world for so long and listening. I tried to apply what I knew about. I know my line sucked, but I also know that's where I have to work on next time I go out. I didn't have much trouble basically controlling the car. Due to my braking techniques, understeer wasn't really a problem and I was able to balance the car before, during, and after corners by using brake and throttle inputs. Basic stuff, but I didn't have any trouble with the basics. Going forward, I now know where I'm at and where I need to start focusing (sort of).

The number of track days remaining that I can attend this season are dwindling. I know I'm a beginner and that I have ALOT to learn, but I have to keep myself from becoming over confident.

Next summer I'm going to do the PCA HPDE at HPT... its my home track and where I'll be spending most of my time. Hallett isn't really important to me.

My end goal is not really to be the fastest, bestest driver out there... but I also don't want to look like a complete noob. I want to get to a good driver level, and then just have fun.

So, in conclusion... Just as long as you have a drivers license, you may be allowed out onto your local track for a track day.

PS: Oh, and I boiled my brake fluid on my first track day. Anybody know how much Motul RBF600 I should order?
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.

Last edited by Andy2108; 07-24-2011 at 04:33 PM.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2011, 06:30 AM   #51
MasterC17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 585
My Ride: hates A/C & Sunroofs
Glad you enjoyed it! I agree, the track is definitely better than autocross, although autocross is a good place to develop your skills (and cheaper). 1 litre of brake fluid is all you need (so buy two bottles of RBF). In MA you need to be 18 or older and have a valid drivers license, weird. Keep it up, good luck and have fun!
MasterC17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 01:23 PM   #52
sporty325i
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 26
My Ride: 2002 325i
KU has an autocross Team/club?! Thats awesome.

I heard there was a touring club event coming up in september at hearland park, Im thinking about going!
sporty325i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2011, 06:25 PM   #53
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
Quote:
Originally Posted by sporty325i View Post
KU has an autocross Team/club?! Thats awesome.

I heard there was a touring club event coming up in september at hearland park, Im thinking about going!
Not quiet. Its a FSAE team. They build formula cars and compete against other schools.

The next touring club at HPT is Wednesday, August 3rd. I'm going.
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 01:05 PM   #54
sporty325i
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Kansas
Posts: 26
My Ride: 2002 325i
Thats pretty cool, and maybe ill run into you out there (no pun intended ). I've never seen how the touring club works so it will be good experinece just to see how it goes down.

oh and... EVERY MAN A WILDCAT!!!
sporty325i is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2011, 01:47 PM   #55
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
Its pretty eazy and laid back. Feel free to come find me, You may have seen my car in the kansas thread. Imma try to be there at about 1130.
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 08:50 PM   #56
Bagels52
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: International
Posts: 30
My Ride: None.
One word of advice which you noted yourself. Forza is a game, its a realistic game based off a sim but its no sim. The nurburgring E90 M3 sim is better. But thats another story. Playing for might help you learn faster lines and **** but dont take what you learn in that game to the pavement. Just use it as an additional enhancement.


Quote:
Originally Posted by TrickTizzle View Post
Auto-X comes before Track!!!
You learn the limits of your car at auto-x so you dont get destroyed on the track. I just turned 18 and I'm planning on doing alot of Autox next spring!
What suspension do you have on your car?
I don't think it would be a good idea/safe to track a stock suspension BMW...
AutoX's are iffy, its hit or miss. Some are a money making operation and you can tell right away by the course layout being very conservative. You usually dont go over 40 mph, so as for car control it doesn't teach you ****. You should know the limits of the car under highway speeds and how it handles. The instructors will tell you otherwise but thats like arguing with mel gibson that his acting sucks. Ive been to some autoXs where the guys who run it are junkies and you can hit 70+ mph on the straights. Mostly near big citys. And no the speed is not what makes it good or not. But certainly higher speeds make things more interesting. If you really want to learn how to drive your car find a parking lot you can use (which means check wit the owner or get arrested at your own risk) and make your own AutoX course, nothing beats seat time. That said each autoX is what you make of it.


As for the above statement what is wrong with the stock suspension, unless its 15 years old and the last four POs never heard of bushings. Where talking about tracking here not racing. Any bloke can get on the track, you just need the $$$, that said itll be more fun seeing some guy in his 997 C2 in your rearview with stock e46 non-m suspension. When that happens you know your on the right track, or he was off the gas. But either way you go home with a smile.


Good luck and do some BMWCCA or some ****. Aim for club racing if you wanna get competitive or something like that.

Last edited by Bagels52; 09-20-2011 at 08:51 PM.
Bagels52 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-20-2011, 09:16 PM   #57
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
Thanks for the advice Bagles.

When it comes down to it, I almost never revert to my gaming experience in the real world. Maybe finding the best line... but other than that not much.

Auto-x was fun, but stupid imho. 50-70 seconds is so short, you only get 3 runs (SCCA), and I didnt feel like I was driving the car right. The courses are just so tight that I felt it was hard to find a good line and stick with it.

I've done a few track days, one or two in the 330 and one in the M3. I only learned they would let me out there late this season. I'm perfectly comfortable on the track at speed, and comfortable with making changes. I overheated tires.... and brakes

I'm really at the point where I need to start seriously learning. Practice doesn't make perfect, perfect practice makes perfect. I have Ross Bently's Speed Secrets #1 and I've skimmed over it, but I need to read it. I think my dad stole it, I'm making him read it too . I need to do DE's now, and I've line up an instructor friend to get me out there.

As far as hardware goes, I've actually moved up in the world. I know, not the best from a tracking(learning) standpoint, but this car is going to be my car from here on out, and I plan to show it alot of track time. Ill just go over the basics.

lots of visual stuff
recaro front and rear seats
4.10's
aFe stage 2 dry intake, TMS power pullies, agency power headers, magnaflow catback
UUC SSK
UUC Swaybarbarians
KW V2 coils
Powerflex throught
Enkei RPF-1 lightweight wheels, staggered (cant go square on these wheels)
I'm switch from a CF CSL bumper to a OEM bumper. This will give me proper brake ducts on both sides.

and I either have these parts already (just not installed yet), or they will be ordered and on the car once spring rolls around:

Bridgestone Potenza RE-11's
TMS rear camber arms
GC front camber plates
PFC-05 brake pads
Motul 600
wheel studs

Needless to say, this car's limits are going to be way over my head. I guess its safer that way

At the end of the day, I'm out there to have fun and not look like a complete noob while doing it.
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.

Last edited by Andy2108; 09-20-2011 at 09:22 PM.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:17 AM   #58
MasterC17
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Massachusetts
Posts: 585
My Ride: hates A/C & Sunroofs
Pictures of the M3?
MasterC17 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-21-2011, 05:00 PM   #59
Andy2108
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: U.S.A.
Posts: 8,035
My Ride: E46 M3, '67 Cobra
okaaay







This car used be be Kerry Getz's in 2005ish. It was a Europrojektz Show car



It doesnt have this any more, but the BSW 210's more than get the job done



I need to clean the car up and then get get some good photos before the weather turns nasty. Most of what I have is just snapshots with my phone.
__________________


De gustibus non est disputandum.

Last edited by Andy2108; 09-21-2011 at 05:04 PM.
Andy2108 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-23-2011, 02:49 PM   #60
southpaw
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Sun Diego
Posts: 15,282
My Ride: E36 M3 and E36 318ti
__________________
-Brandon

239whp/227wtq @2700lbs
southpaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 01:55 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use