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Old 12-08-2010, 04:12 AM   #1
cyberkaa
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Updated: Getrag Loose 5th Gear - Ideas on a fix [now with DIY]

There are plenty of threads on the shift pin service on ZF transmissions. After Googling it, I've only seen a handful of references to a similar problem on Getrag boxes where the shifter doesn't return to the neutral position between 3rd and 4th from the 5th gear gate.

UPDATE: DIY in post 20.

The transmission I'm working on in particular is a Getrag S5D 250G from a 2000 323ci. When moving the shift lever side to side, the reverse gate is nice and springy and even the 1-2 gate has resistance, but 5th gives me nothing. It's hard to tell it apart from 3-4 and that means potential mis-shifts into 5th when looking for 3rd (or the potentially disastrous opposite).

DISCLAIMER: I'm new to servicing transmissions, so I've had to make educated guesses about the functions of various parts.

I looked at the various springs I can access from the outside of the trans case and there are three springs (#19 in the picture) under the sealing cap that press down on three balls. It seems like there are detents in each of the three shift rods to accommodate them. I guess they're there to resist shift rod movement so as to hold the gear.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...29&hg=23&fg=15
It looks like the locking pin and spring (#3, #4) will fit against the detents in the selector shaft and provide the "in-gear" feel as the selector rod moves in and out. Seems somewhat redundant with the 3 springs+balls above, but I assume it's a lot better at keeping the gearshift in place.

I've deduced that #9 and #11 in the pic below are the reverse and 5th gear return springs, respectively, so I'm going to pull those out and replace them along with the caps and locking pins. The drawing is misleading, but it looks like the roll pin (#5) sits on the cam (#4), which moves between the two locking pins (hence the beveled edges on the pins).

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...28&hg=23&fg=15

Here's a much better picture from a post on m3forum where a member was converting the M3 Getrag transmission from SMG to manual 6spd. In that conversion, all of the springs and locking pins have to be added back. The cam is #1 as labeled in the pic and the wheel on the end of it is the roll pin, which is resting between the two locking pins.

Original post: http://m3forum.net/m3forum/showpost....0&postcount=15

Just in case, I'm going to service both the 5th and reverse gear pins. I will be reusing the washers and snap rings.
Parts list:
2x 23127527439 Sealing cover
1x 23311228393 Reverse gear compression spring
1x 23311228392 Reverse gear locking pin
1x 23311224215 5th gear compression spring
1x 23311224130 5th gear locking pin

DIY to follow. Any input would be greatly appreciated.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:34 AM   #2
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I have the same problem. This is what I've lifted from another site:

In short, there is a fifth gear pin which is supposed to move freely (back-n-forth) inside a bushing located in the transmission. This pin is spring-loaded, which returns your shift lever to center. What happens (and usually when the tranny is cold) is when the shift lever is moved to the right of the gate, the pin goes into the bushing and becomes lodged, making the shift lever stay right instead of returning center. BMW released a bushing repair-kit (#23-11-7-542-726) intending to fix this issue. FYI, members from the thread on Bimmerforums have had success with the repair-kit, resolving this "5th-gear-sticky" issue. BTW, when the shift lever finally returns center, that "click" sound you hear is the pin finally dislodging itself in the bushing (returning into its original position).

The catch for R&R of the bushing repair-kit: You are required to drop the transmission. The bushing/pin location is on the side of the tranny and you'll need all the room possible to remove the old bushing from (which is usually seized inside) the tranny.
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Old 12-08-2010, 04:48 AM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian328i View Post
The catch for R&R of the bushing repair-kit: You are required to drop the transmission. The bushing/pin location is on the side of the tranny and you'll need all the room possible to remove the old bushing from (which is usually seized inside) the tranny.


Nice catch Kalim.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:02 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian328i View Post
I have the same problem. This is what I've lifted from another site:

In short, there is a fifth gear pin which is supposed to move freely (back-n-forth) inside a bushing located in the transmission. This pin is spring-loaded, which returns your shift lever to center. What happens (and usually when the tranny is cold) is when the shift lever is moved to the right of the gate, the pin goes into the bushing and becomes lodged, making the shift lever stay right instead of returning center. BMW released a bushing repair-kit (#23-11-7-542-726) intending to fix this issue. FYI, members from the thread on Bimmerforums have had success with the repair-kit, resolving this "5th-gear-sticky" issue. BTW, when the shift lever finally returns center, that "click" sound you hear is the pin finally dislodging itself in the bushing (returning into its original position).

The catch for R&R of the bushing repair-kit: You are required to drop the transmission. The bushing/pin location is on the side of the tranny and you'll need all the room possible to remove the old bushing from (which is usually seized inside) the tranny.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but you have a ZF gearbox in your 328i, right? As far as I know, that repair kit and associated service bulletin is for the ZFs. I'd be very surprised (and pleased!) if the same kit fits the Getrags. Let me know if you've heard otherwise!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Devious21 View Post


Nice catch Kalim.
Thanks, Rick. Just trying to make sure you're satisfied with the swap the first time around.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:11 AM   #5
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I came across a link of a link of a link of a link once... could never find it again. It was a VERY detailed thread that showed the parts that where involved the tools need to do the job it was extremely long and detailed.

The new bushings from what I remember are now coated straight out of the dealer, so the inside walls now have a white coating as opposed to the ones we have, which are not! The getrag diagrams dont really show where you can access those springs and bushing but the parts seem to be fairly cheap. Hopefully you dont have to seperate the transmission housings :S

I'm going to be doing this in the summer and I always document everything and put it on YouTube and in the DIY section. So if you willing to wait till then you can get at least an idea of what to go, considering our transmission as somewhat different.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:24 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian328i View Post
I came across a link of a link of a link of a link once... could never find it again. It was a VERY detailed thread that showed the parts that where involved the tools need to do the job it was extremely long and detailed.

The new bushings from what I remember are now coated straight out of the dealer, so the inside walls now have a white coating as opposed to the ones we have, which are not! The getrag diagrams dont really show where you can access those springs and bushing but the parts seem to be fairly cheap. Hopefully you dont have to seperate the transmission housings :S

I'm going to be doing this in the summer and I always document everything and put it on YouTube and in the DIY section. So if you willing to wait till then you can get at least an idea of what to go, considering our transmission as somewhat different.
I've read several of the ZF DIYs. Here are a couple that might ring a bell:
http://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplass...hift_pins.html
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/phpBB/v...24b322759ff068

No, you don't need to pull the housing apart. They're easily serviced from the outside of the trans once it's removed from the car. The trans I'm working on is sitting on the floor of my garage anyway.

Parts have been ordered. I think I've got enough background on it to dive in head first as soon as they arrive.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:25 AM   #7
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Alright found a little more information, unfortunatly it doesnt say if it includes Getrag trans.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/docs/SIB230404.pdf
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:27 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cyberkaa View Post
I've read several of the ZF DIYs. Here are a couple that might ring a bell:
http://webspace.ringling.edu/~dplass...hift_pins.html
http://www.unofficialbmw.com/phpBB/v...24b322759ff068

No, you don't need to pull the housing apart. They're easily serviced from the outside of the trans once it's removed from the car. The trans I'm working on is sitting on the floor of my garage anyway.

Parts have been ordered. I think I've got enough background on it to dive in head first as soon as they arrive.
Wow I cant believe it, either I'm worse at googling things then I though or idk what... I've been looking for those threads for such a long time! I better be seeing a DIY and videos posted in the DIY section.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:28 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian328i View Post
Alright found a little more information, unfortunatly it doesnt say if it includes Getrag trans.

http://www.uucmotorwerks.com/docs/SIB230404.pdf
Yep, I've got a copy of that SIB as well. Transmissions ending in "Z" are ZF. There are no "G" (Getrag) transmissions mentioned, hence this thread.
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i'd rather be gapless with no bulge

Last edited by cyberkaa; 12-08-2010 at 05:33 AM.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:30 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by brian328i View Post
Wow I cant believe it, either I'm worse at googling things then I though or idk what... I've been looking for those threads for such a long time! I better be seeing a DIY and videos posted in the DIY section.
There's not much on the Getrags so I'll be documenting this procedure for sure.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:38 AM   #11
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I suppose your going to be changing your clutch while your there?
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:58 AM   #12
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Quote:
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I suppose your going to be changing your clutch while your there?
It's an auto to manual swap, so I removed the torque converter and installed a new clutch.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:38 AM   #13
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I think your best bet is to swap in a S5D 320z from a later model E46 or better yet the 2003 6-speed (but the 320zs are more plentiful and cheaper)
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:12 PM   #14
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I think your best bet is to swap in a S5D 320z from a later model E46 or better yet the 2003 6-speed (but the 320zs are more plentiful and cheaper)
Already have the transmission and it's too late in the project to make a drastic change unfortunately.
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:17 PM   #15
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How is a S5D 320z a drastic change??
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Old 12-08-2010, 12:25 PM   #16
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How is a S5D 320z a drastic change??
We are at the end of the project and we have days left not weeks. It's too late to track down and purchase a new trans.
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Old 12-08-2010, 05:47 PM   #17
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Exactly. Yes, it would fit in place, but we're on a tight schedule and don't have time to source another trans.
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:11 PM   #18
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gotcha.

is this in your area?

http://sfbay.craigslist.org/scz/pts/2097364692.html
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Old 12-08-2010, 06:37 PM   #19
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Sort of. It will still need to be shipped, though.

The other issue is the Shift Kit/DSSR I ordered is for our current transmission. So, it's not as simple as just picking up new hardware unless we scrap the project, return the parts, reorder and shoot for it again next year.

We are very close to being done. We are just trying to resolve this issue before the last part arrives early next week.
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Old 12-25-2010, 04:20 AM   #20
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5th and Reverse locking pin DIY

Once again, the problem is that the shifter does not return to the normal neutral position between 3rd and 4th. It flops back and forth between the 3-4 gate and the 5th gear gate.

Resting in neutral in the fifth gear gate:


Normal neutral position:


Locate the locking pin bores on the left side of the transmission:


Remove the 5th gear sealing cap. I didn't have a punch available so I used a tiny star bit on an extension. Punch into the middle and lever the cap out.

Shift into first or second gear and remove the snap ring using snap ring pliers. The spring and washer are still under compression and will smack you in the face if you're not careful. I held the assembly down with my thumb as I removed the snap ring with the pliers.


Snap ring and washer out.


Remove the 5th gear spring. The new spring felt a little stiffer than the old one.


At this point you can remove the locking pin. Shift the transmission into 5th gear. The roll pin will push the locking pin out to the farthest extent of its normal travel. It'll also prevent the pin from sliding back in as you try to remove it. This 5th gear pin on this transmission was completely jammed. I added some fresh ATF to try to get it to move, but it didn't help much. The pin doesn't come out far enough to get a good grip on it with pliers, either. Luckily, there's a hole in the center of the pin so it's possible to hook something into it. I used a long thin screw bent slightly at the end to yank it out (see last pic).

A view of the bore. There's a liner just as in the ZF transmissions. I couldn't find the part number so I couldn't replace it, but the procedure would be the same as in the ZF DIY threads. The roll pin is visible through the bore.


The liner:


Lube the locking pin with some ATF and put the transmission back into 5th if you moved the shifter. Install the locking pin with the beveled edge facing the roll pin, towards to middle of the two bores, i.e. facing down for 5th gear. Follow up with the new spring and the washer. I found it was easier to install the snap ring if the washer was first anchored in the snap ring groove.


Push the snap ring in until it is fully seated in the groove. You can test the shifter at this point. Work it back and forth between the gates and if all went well, you should have a nice springy feeling when moving the lever towards the 5th gear gate.


Once you're satisfied it's working, tap a new sealing cap in and repeat the above procedure for the reverse locking pin.


The reverse locking pin and spring are noticeably shorter. The spring is also much stiffer.

All sealed up.


Used parts. The screw I used to pull the pins out is to the right.



Result:
The lever now rests at neutral between 3rd and 4th as it should. 5th gear has just the right amount of resistance to let know you've found the gear. Reverse isn't nearly as notchy as it used to be either.
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Last edited by cyberkaa; 12-25-2010 at 04:44 AM.
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