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Old 04-30-2017, 08:03 AM   #1
avantgarde
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Misfire: Forceful exhaust

I hate being this guy. Posting a very common thread, but I've done just about everything save for "random misfire" solutions.

I have a very steady, very annoying misfire on cylinder 2 (shadows of a misfire on Cylinder 4 as well, but I think that's because #2 is essentially a dead hole) of my 2001 auto 325xi.

Second curious thing is that the exhaust is extremely forceful from the tips at idle.

On my manual that runs fine, i can get my hand about 2 inches from the exhaust tip before it starts to push my fingers away. with the auto, it's smacking my hand, forcefully even 8 inches away from the tips. I'm really hoping it's not a burnt set of valves.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:11 AM   #2
aaronsgar5
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Can you list what tests you've ran and the results along with what parts have been replaced so far?

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Old 04-30-2017, 09:42 AM   #3
jfoj
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Firing order is 1-5-3-6-2-4

Coil, oil in #2 spark plug well, DME, burned valve, dead injector or rodent chewed wiring.

Perform a compression and cylinder leakage test on #2, pull the Bank #1 Pre-cat O2 sensor to listen for air leakage.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=889143

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=904997

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1124176

Pull the DME, check for coolant or oil ingress.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1052977

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...21#post9977321

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...1#post16833498

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=870338

Check for short coil driver chips in the DME

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...1#post17093725

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1114872

http://www.digikey.com/product-detai...LPBF-ND/812253

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1123787
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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 04-30-2017, 09:58 AM   #4
WDE46
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Swap the coil from 2 with one from 4, 5, or 6. See if the misfire follows.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:18 PM   #5
avantgarde
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So, what I've done so far is confirm there are no issues with the spark and mitigated blowby on the piston side with leaky oil rings.

Have done:
  • Cleaned out with Gunk Flush (missing really badly, originally presumably due to Dino/Syn mixed oil)
  • Swapped coils around and followed on two (Replaced bad coils made only moderate change)
  • Performed Lucas-In-Cylinder-Overnight treatment (made a marginal difference.)
  • BG EPR oil change (Revved at 1200rpm for 10 minutes, like direction said, then let sit for another 35 minutes like other users have done, oil came out runny and very dark. new oil looks great even days later-runs marginally better still violently missing on #2 reset codes to get fuel to go in, still missed badly)
  • Used ignition coil tester on Cylinder #2 (Confirmed Spark signal from ECU and good #2 coil)

What I have not done:
  • Swapped injectors (Very involved and haven't had time to tear it down to that extent.)
  • Compression test (Compression Tester took a crap a few weeks before i ended up with these cars. Need to get another one)
  • Leak Down (Do not have compressor so this is not something I can do right now)

The odd thing is I can hear a sort of "puffing" sound from the engine when #2 misses... You can hear it on the passenger/right side of the car while running.

Last edited by avantgarde; 07-25-2017 at 06:18 PM.
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Old 04-30-2017, 08:44 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by avantgarde View Post
I hate being this guy. Posting a very common thread, but I've done just about everything save for "random misfire" solutions.

I have a very steady, very annoying misfire on cylinder 2 (shadows of a misfire on Cylinder 4 as well, but I think that's because #2 is essentially a dead hole) of my 2001 auto 325xi.

Second curious thing is that the exhaust is extremely forceful from the tips at idle.

On my manual that runs fine, i can get my hand about 2 inches from the exhaust tip before it starts to push my fingers away. with the auto, it's smacking my hand, forcefully even 8 inches away from the tips. I'm really hoping it's not a burnt set of valves.
If you replaced or swapped the spark plugs and coils and still have the issue. Go ahead and see if the fuel is a problem, but I doubt it is. You can still use a fuel Guage to see if you have a normal fuel rail pressure . Again I doubt it is the issue.

Without additional info, I suspect you got a backpressure in the exhaust. A clogged muffler or a cat or two . It could be as simple as a stuck valve at the tip of the stock muffler you got. Check the muffler.

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Old 04-30-2017, 08:49 PM   #7
jfoj
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Do not worry about swapping injectors, they RARELY have problems.

You could use a Noid light to make sure the DME is triggering the injector.

You could use a spark indicator to make sure the coil is actually firing.

You may want to pull the DME connectors to look for coolant or oil. You may want to open the DME and look for a blown coil driver chip.

A compression tester will give you a very quick indicator of the cylinder health, a leakdown test confirms the the percentage and where the leak is.

You could also use a borescope to inspect the exhaust valves, if the problem is as bad as you say one of the exhaust valves will be badly burned.
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Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:08 PM   #8
avantgarde
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Well, before my compression tester came in, I ended up just taking it to a BMW specialist......

ZERO compression on #2 *facepalm*

he did me a solid and gave me paperwork to get it through inspection, but I'm going to have to replace something in there. It's a major hard-part failure. I'm almost positive on it now. Got my AC Delco XP099jklmnop whatever Upper Engine/Cylinder cleaning stuff and I'm going to give it one more go and see if it's just a stuck ring. Doubt it, but may as well try one more time, before ripping the head off of the car.

It'll be a while before I can dismantle it, but for now, it's going to just exist around the house. It still "drives" with the fuel cut, but I'm SUPER leery about even driving it, not knowing if the ECU really is cutting fuel... don't want to overheat/melt the cats.

Here's an opportunity, I really need to avoid getting stupid... b30 engine from somewhere, swap that into my MT, and swap the good b25 into the auto... *starry eye'd* that MS43 tuning thread has me giddy with possibilities (I tuned my Turbocharged 3.5RL). LOL!
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:13 PM   #9
Dogthebountyhunter
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Damn that blows. What happened to the car that caused this? You might as well drive it around while trying to find a used engine.
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:15 PM   #10
GhostFlame
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If you have 0 compression, do NOT drive it unless you plan on swapping the entire engine.

Otherwise, drive it and make sure your AAA towing card is handy.
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:21 PM   #11
avantgarde
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Yeah. Realistically, All I'm likely to do is just buy a new head and replace the engine hoses while in there. It's a decent car, so no need messing with it too much. I've done a few things to spiffy it up since it's been around. Mostly deep cleaning and replacing really ratty looking parts... Deciding if it's worth the effort re-wrapping the B and A pillars. probably not.

I'm happy with it, just this was an unfortunate blow. Glad I still have my other e46 Super reliable daily driver.
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Old 05-05-2017, 03:26 PM   #12
jfoj
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Before you waste any more time, you want to read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1124176

With a cheap ($20?) borescope that connects to a table or phone, SeanH was able to put the borescope down the spark plug hole and actually get a picture of the burned exhaust valve!!

See pictures in the thread linked above.
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Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

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Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 05-05-2017, 04:08 PM   #13
avantgarde
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Before you waste any more time, you want to read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=1124176

With a cheap ($20?) borescope that connects to a table or phone, SeanH was able to put the borescope down the spark plug hole and actually get a picture of the burned exhaust valve!!

See pictures in the thread linked above.
Yeah, i was thumbing through the harbor freight email I had earlier this week, they still want 68 dollars for the endoscope thing-a-ma-bobbers.

I'm nearly certain, at this point, it's either a valve or a piston. Either way, it's probably advisable to drop the subframe, pull the engine completely and go through it. or at the very least repair and replace the offending valves.

I'm, halfway, wanting to just rip it apart and put M52 oil rings in it as well, but like I said, that's turning this car into a project and I just want it running well again. I have so many lofty goals, but that 4 hour per day commute really eats my time during the week.


Pulling the head will tell me one way or the other. spending another 20-70 bucks on an Borescope will just tell me what I kind of already know, honestly.

I read someone broke the plastic chain guide trying to put the head back on... I really need to research the steps on getting the head off with chains. It seems like there's plenty of room to work (My Acura Legend was a NIGHTMARE to replace the headgaskets on)

Last edited by avantgarde; 05-05-2017 at 04:09 PM.
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Old 05-05-2017, 05:11 PM   #14
avantgarde
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I should probably explain myself for my last post.

I have a 96 3.5RL a 2004 3.5RL, Saab 9-7X, and the Manual e46 (in addition to the automatic transmission e46 that's misfiring... My 96 Acura is like the emergency car, stupid reliable, but not a car you want to drive everyday and not in the most wonderful of cosmetic conditions.

My 2004 Acura 3.5RL is sitting right now until I can get the AP1 S2000 Electric Power Steering Rack put in. Also, in the meantime, I am currently getting the wiring and solenoids done for the on-the-fly height and damping adjustable suspension, so I can "stance" it when I want, and still have fun driving it. I still have to get a new set of wheels made and some aero imported for it. I want to do some interior lighting upgrades, etc. Not withstanding, I'm upgrading the turbo and installing 2200cc injectors, and fuel pump, to convert it to E85 (shooting for well over 700hp to start, it's at an estimated 320 right now)

My 04 RL is my project car, lol! I am stuck at the S2000 steering rack because I need to get some tie-rod ends figured out before I can proceed. I don't like the idea of welding two S2000 ends together with a car making enough power, and with enough top gear, to go over 200mph on a runway.

Here it is in piss poor shape, LOL! sad, but it will come back to life, one of these days. Going for a completely different look and far more power

don't laugh at her, she's self-conscious

Another half-ass "project" is the 9-7X 5.3i... I, stupidly, blew up the fan on the 9-7X on my commute to work (that 4 hour round trip one). Trying to merge onto the highway, I HEARD the roaring of the fan randomly as I merged, but just kind hoped that I could make it up to speed before it shattered... NOPE...

So, I am also in the middle of removing and replacing the Radiator, waterpump, hoses, accessories, plugs, and all other little bits and bobs underhood that got damaged or destroyed when the fan and waterpump exploded.

I'm converting it to electric fans so it never happens again; I just have to install the ECU patch with my HPTuners flash module. While in the process of doing that, I plan to install (and have already purchased) a 272 cam (Actual specs 212@ fifty-thousandths on the intake 222 exhaust, LSA 115), and doing the Displace-on-Demand delete. I would love to have VVT with a limiter, but cams are kind of limited with that setup. VVT swaps onto most LS-based engines. Anyway, getting that thumper back on the road is also a big bite of Shadetree I bit off, and am still chewing, LOL!

"are you hard on cars?" yes... yes I am. I just do so much driving that they sometimes disintegrate under me. My Acuras have been super reliable (other than my Acura Legend)

The 1985 Peugeot 505 Turbo 5spd I had is another story completely...

The 1993 Volvo 940tic was probably the most robust of all of them. It was a friggin tank. Same family ran it with no coolant for weeks, I put some in, and it was like it never happened... No headgasket failure, no engine block cracks, no head cracks. upgraded boost controller over boosted one time while I was driving... likely 25 psi before I realized... head pinging. Let off frightened... NOTHING... it ate the pings like that's what was always supposed to happen.

The timing belt slipped off, since it's not an interference engine, I just slipped it back on, and kept it moving. I loved that car. I didn't realize the regulator was bad in the driver's window when I parked it... Put some stabil in it, and left it for a year... came back and the driver's window was completely down and the car, filled with mold... I cried, LOL!

Wow, this post probably should have been in the introduction forum... sorry...


BUT to the point... Yeah, I've never had an exhaust valve go on me. On any car, so this is uncharted territory I really appreciate you guy's help in figuring this one out.
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Old 05-05-2017, 05:54 PM   #15
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I bent valves, with a money shift some years ago...!

New valves all round with headgasket set and all ok 6 years on now.
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Old 05-05-2017, 06:24 PM   #16
jfoj
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Most likely a burned exhaust valve.

Not sure what the ultimate cause of this happening really is.

Vacuum leaks not addressed, Lean condition causing the combustion chamber temps to get too high?

Restricted exhaust due to a partially plugged catalytic converter??

Worn valve guides?

Something else?

Unfortunately we are seeing more burned exhaust valves lately in the higher mileage cars and there seems to be no obvious reason we have been able to put our finger on yet.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

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Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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