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E46 Xi Forum
The E46 XI was produced from 01-05 in sedan and touring body styles. Powered by either a 2.5L inline 6 in the 325xi or a 3.0L inline 6 330xi. Discuss all thing about BMW AWD E46 'Xi' here.

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Old 12-15-2010, 12:38 AM   #1
feddomw
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Wassenaar
Posts: 78
My Ride: 325xi Touring
325xi manual reverse "shudder" (not really a shudder)

Hi there, as you can see on the left, longtime lurker. Joined when I had a 330xi in 2007. Sold quickly due to a killer deal at the time: Golf GTI. I am now back with BMW.

Having a problem on my 2001 325xi manual which I can't seem to find here using the search function.

Symptoms: Going in reverse from standstill, steering wheel fully turned in one direction or the other, I feel that something is wrong.

First off, the steering pump makes WAY more noise when the steering is fully turned, if I release the wheel just a few inches, it quiets down immediately.

Second, it just feels like the wheels are being "blocked" or that there is way too much pressure somewhere in the front end. When reversing on a perfectly flat road, it almost feels as if I am trying to drive up a curb. I have to give way too much gas when letting the clutch come up to get the car in motion.

To my recollection, my 330xi AUTO I had a few years ago did not have this, but the auto transmission could just have overcome this or at least prevent me feeling it.

I have had 2 Audi Quattro's that also had slight "grinding" when the wheel is fully turned, but not this bad.

And I know that the "second diff" that distributes the 4WD adds a certain amount of "torque blockage" (I have no other way of saying this, I am not a native English speaker).

It is obviously mechanically very hard to distribute power to all 4wheels when the steering is fully turned. I get that.

That said, it just feels that something is not right with my car though.
Any thoughts/input are welcome.

Oh yeah: Driving forward and once rolling, all is 100% fine.

Last edited by feddomw; 12-15-2010 at 12:40 AM.
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:04 AM   #2
Capt1014
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feddomw View Post
First off, the steering pump makes WAY more noise when the steering is fully turned, if I release the wheel just a few inches, it quiets down immediately.
Does it make the same noise if you turn the wheel all the way to the left or right when NOT in reverse? or not moving? From your description sounds like a belt issue.
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:10 AM   #3
feddomw
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Yes, it makes the same noise. Which makes me think it is really two problems.

Something may be wrong with the power steering. Low fluid or something. Easy to diagnose and not a big deal.

But some sort of diff/torque issue (it seems to be binding up) is also definitetely there. I just drove again, and there really is way too much "resistance" to roll backwards with the wheels fully turned either direction.

No vibration or problems when standing still. No issues at all when driving forward.
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Old 12-15-2010, 08:36 AM   #4
LittleChrist12
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I've noticed a similar issue. It almost feels like the car is trying to trying to back over a curb, and it happens repeatedly. I've checked the power steering fluid level, andits consistently within the range, albeit a little low.

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Old 12-15-2010, 11:57 AM   #5
ChipDouglas27
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I have noticed the same issue. When going backwards and turning in a tight radius. The tighter the radius, the more intense the "grinding" I just had my CV joints checked/replaced so that should not be the issue. Will check the Power Steering fluid today.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:43 PM   #6
mujjuman
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everything you just said sounds normal to me.
just dont turn the steering wheel ALL the way into lock position. i always turn it just before it locks and i get zero noises and zero drivability problems. also make sure your power steering reservoir (filled with ATF) has enough fluid
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Old 01-26-2011, 08:50 AM   #7
feddomw
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BUMP for update: took the car to a Transmission specialist who is looking into this. He drove the car with me along for the ride and he concurs this is not normal. He owns an e30 and e36 BTW. This place comes highly recommended as being reliable and extremely professional.

He noticed (and I had too) that when going forward in 1st and letting the clutch come up (no throttle), right where the clutch starts to "grip" you get a slight shudder vibration that goes away when driving.

Also, my feeling of the general jerkiness of the clutch/gearbox/drivetrain is not normal. I am not a bad driver and am completely unable to drive the car somewhat smoothly through the gears.

In other words, to be continued but worth inspecting and he will be doing so soon to find out what the problem is. It could be any number of things (obviously)....
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Old 01-26-2011, 10:27 AM   #8
bpiecuch
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I have a similar problem when going in reverse, with anywhere between a mild and a tight turning radius. The car seems to "bind" and doesn't want to go without extra application of the throttle. I don't have a "shutter", but the CV joints do that pop thing once and a while. So, I'm assuming that it's all related to the CV joints... I'm on my 2nd set of axles (95k miles), but as the 2nd owner I don't know the brand of the replacements.

I, too, never had a problem with this on my Audi (165k miles). My old Jeep Cherokee, however, did this when new.

The chunkiness of the gearbox, especially when putting it into 1st gear, has always been a complaint. But based on what I've read on these forums, it's pretty standard (even on rwd only).

I have a slight leak on my PS reservoir, but don't have any PS issues in general. Any more updates would be greatly appreciated!
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Old 01-27-2011, 07:36 AM   #9
feddomw
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"binding" is the right word. I am waiting on a call back, but I know they are busy.

The gearbox: it's not the jerkiness of the gearbox that bugs me, it's the whole car going "clunk" when the clutch grips the gear (if you get my drift) while upshifting. The car is smooth when downshifting, but when shifting up, when the clutch pedal is fully released and the throttle is applied again, you can just feel and hear that through the whole car.

The guy at the transmission place did not look under the car (yet), but mentioned that he came across BMW gearboxes once in a while that did not have a drain plug. They are not BMW specialist, just transmission specialists. We'll figure it out, but it was worth noting. The gearbox may have to come off anyway to do the fix of the stick staying in front of fifth gear when in neutral. I got that write up off the 'fest I think, it's a BMW Service bulletin where two small bushes in the gearbox are switched out.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:32 AM   #10
infinite012
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In the Subaru community, it's normal to hear a clunk from the rear differential (bushings are weak) when making upshifts. It's usually caused by a heavy right foot when shifting. However, some tuners came up with a solution called the Klunk Killer produced by Turn In Concepts.

http://turninconcepts.com/product_in...roducts_id=187

Perhaps you could look into the bushings of the vehicle to control the clunk noise when shifting.

As for your problem in reverse, I have a similar issue, but with the added bonus of a clunking noise.
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Old 02-02-2011, 10:10 AM   #11
SamDoe1
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Originally Posted by feddomw View Post
"binding" is the right word. I am waiting on a call back, but I know they are busy.

The gearbox: it's not the jerkiness of the gearbox that bugs me, it's the whole car going "clunk" when the clutch grips the gear (if you get my drift) while upshifting. The car is smooth when downshifting, but when shifting up, when the clutch pedal is fully released and the throttle is applied again, you can just feel and hear that through the whole car.

The guy at the transmission place did not look under the car (yet), but mentioned that he came across BMW gearboxes once in a while that did not have a drain plug. They are not BMW specialist, just transmission specialists. We'll figure it out, but it was worth noting. The gearbox may have to come off anyway to do the fix of the stick staying in front of fifth gear when in neutral. I got that write up off the 'fest I think, it's a BMW Service bulletin where two small bushes in the gearbox are switched out.
I have the clunk issue as well. Give the car some gas and change gears. If you baby it, it will clunk. Shift at 2-3k and you will be fine. Shifting at higher revs in these cars gives you much smoother shifts especially from 1-2.
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Old 02-02-2011, 08:00 PM   #12
lotar_6
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the clunk "felt" when up shifting could be bad trans or motor mounts. I had this issue on my audi and found that the motor mounts were destroyed, so the engine just rocked and slammed around w/ torque changes. yes, it may be worse and turn out to be a trans issue... but check the easy stuff first.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:13 AM   #13
jcarpfishman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by feddomw View Post
"binding" is the right word. I am waiting on a call back, but I know they are busy.

The gearbox: it's not the jerkiness of the gearbox that bugs me, it's the whole car going "clunk" when the clutch grips the gear (if you get my drift) while upshifting. The car is smooth when downshifting, but when shifting up, when the clutch pedal is fully released and the throttle is applied again, you can just feel and hear that through the whole car.

The guy at the transmission place did not look under the car (yet), but mentioned that he came across BMW gearboxes once in a while that did not have a drain plug. They are not BMW specialist, just transmission specialists. We'll figure it out, but it was worth noting. The gearbox may have to come off anyway to do the fix of the stick staying in front of fifth gear when in neutral. I got that write up off the 'fest I think, it's a BMW Service bulletin where two small bushes in the gearbox are switched out.
IMO, I think the clunk can be related in part to the Clutch Delay Valve. When I first got my '01 330xi, it was still installed. For the first few weeks that I drove the car I was constantly clunking when shifting gears, and it annoyed the heck out of me that I couldn't make it go away no matter how much I adjusted my shifting technique. As soon as I removed the valve, I felt like my shifts were immediately better. Basically, it allows you to have constant control the of the clutch engagement rate, instead of the delay valve maintaining a slower engagement rate if you try to drop the clutch quickly. It may not provide a 100% cure to the clunking, as I can still get a clunk if I'm being lazy with my shifts, but it may help more than you'd think.

This is of course all assuming that the CDV is still in place and that the previous owner didn't take it out. If that's the case... nothing comes to mind at the moment.
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Old 02-03-2011, 10:18 AM   #14
jcarpfishman
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And I figured I'd chime in: my car has the same loud squealing power steering pump when going full wheel lock in reverse. I've never really paid much attention to see if there's a lot of extra resistance, but I'll check later. If so, I'm in the same boat. FYI, I'm sitting at 108k miles right now.
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