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Old 12-26-2010, 01:24 AM   #41
GoingNuts
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Originally Posted by NOVAbimmer View Post
wait... GN is saying that BMW didn't design something perfectly to last the life of the car straight from the factory
Don't put words in my mouth. I was voting for the OP to buy K&N. I never said I was buying. I am too much of a man to want to spend any time at all douching the filter every so often.

The point remains valid in that no one has seen a blown engine caused by K&N. So UOAs are essentially useless as proofs for anything.

Last edited by GoingNuts; 12-26-2010 at 01:26 AM.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:40 AM   #42
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Don't put words in my mouth. I was voting for the OP to buy K&N. I never said I was buying. I am too much of a man to want to spend any time at all douching the filter every so often.

The point remains valid in that no one has seen a blown engine caused by K&N. So UOAs are essentially useless as proofs for anything.
Epic.

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Old 12-26-2010, 09:27 AM   #43
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OP, what do you not like about the OE filter? That it filters particles as small as 10Nmm? That it costs about $15? That it provides adequate airflow for rapid cylinder filling (and then some)? That it has enough surface area to filter properly for 20-30K (as long as you don't drive in a dust storm everyday) with minimal drop in airflow? That when you're done with it, you can pitch it and not have to worry about wash/dry/oil care etc.?

You have to remember that to increase airflow, you must reduce resistance. Most filters that boast increased airflow do so by increasing spaces in the filtering media. If you want reduced restriction and don't care about filtering, just leave the filter out. As for dry media like the Afe with claims of increased flow, they also do it by the law of physics phenomenon just mentioned. And I will bet a box of doughnuts that none of us here can tell the flow difference between OE and any other panel filter. What most experience is the placebo effect that a slightly louder induction sound will generate. Also, for the cost of 1 Afe, I'd rather get 3 OE filters. Oh, and those that think a K&N filters well? Hold it up to the light and tell us what you see.
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Old 12-26-2010, 10:31 AM   #44
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Don't put words in my mouth. I was voting for the OP to buy K&N. I never said I was buying. I am too much of a man to want to spend any time at all douching the filter every so often.

The point remains valid in that no one has seen a blown engine caused by K&N. So UOAs are essentially useless as proofs for anything.
LMAO

Well said.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:26 PM   #45
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Do us a favor and post those numbers. And when you're done posting those numbers... find us the ones that show the levels needed to cause damage. Otherwise....
+1

I had a K&N box filter on my M3 and now I have an ECIS intake with a K&N cone filter and I have never had a problem. I have had my intake for about 4 years and never once had a problem with the MAF sensor. Over oiling does mess up your MAF just dont be stupid and put a lot of oil on your filter when cleaning.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:33 PM   #46
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It is proven in this thread, due to lack of evidence, that no K&N filter had ever blown up an engine.
He wasn't contending that a K&N (or any filter for that matter) would cause the engine to blow up. What he said was that used oil analysis have shown higher levels of silicon (ie; dirt) in general with those using K&N air filters. And that higher levels of dirt is not good for the engine.

Think of it this way, add 100ppm (not much really) of silicon in the particulate range of 10~25 Nmm (which a K&N filter WILL let in, BTW), and mix it with the oil film on the cylinder walls. Drive normally and let this abrasive paste work it's wonders on the cylinder walls and piston rings for awhile. I bet we see those same folks coming back in here whining about why their cars are now consuming large amounts of oil. Won't happen overnight like "blowing up the engine" () would, but given a short period of time like a couple oil change intervals and there will be measurable wear.
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Old 12-26-2010, 12:50 PM   #47
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He wasn't contending that a K&N (or any filter for that matter) would cause the engine to blow up. What he said was that used oil analysis have shown higher levels of silicon (ie; dirt) in general with those using K&N air filters. And that higher levels of dirt is not good for the engine.

Think of it this way, add 100ppm (not much really) of silicon in the particulate range of 10~25 Nmm (which a K&N filter WILL let in, BTW), and mix it with the oil film on the cylinder walls. Drive normally and let this abrasive paste work it's wonders on the cylinder walls and piston rings for awhile. I bet we see those same folks coming back in here whining about why their cars are now consuming large amounts of oil. Won't happen overnight like "blowing up the engine" () would, but given a short period of time like a couple oil change intervals and there will be measurable wear.
Given the persistent report of people using k&n for years and years, there hasn't been a single case of engine blowing up in the short term, or in the long term. All this dirt mongering is unjustified, and does nothing but serve to hype up business for little shops that like to say nice.

Quite frankly, I see close circles like BITOG hold no credibility or currency. In any case, the B(ob) in BITOG is no longer there as springman can confirm. So who or where is the authority of their information coming from now ? There is no longer an oil guy at BITOG, while the original so called 'oil' guy was just a noob stealing my ideas.

Where is the evidence that says a particular numbers of particles per million part of oil is bad for the engine ? Those 'safe-limit' figures appearing on UOAs are nothing but arbitrary numbers made up to serve the purpose of the little shops. To be convincing, show us the recommendations by large oil companies or engine manufacturers.

Last edited by GoingNuts; 12-26-2010 at 01:02 PM.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:26 PM   #48
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Given the persistent report of people using k&n for years and years, there hasn't been a single case of engine blowing up in the short term, or in the long term. All this dirt mongering is unjustified, and does nothing but serve to hype up business for little shops that like to say nice.
You really need to present a better argument than an engine "blowing up". No one is saying that and frankly, the only way to do that to your standard would be with some sort of explosive . More dirt (and I just threw out that figure to show more than normal amounts) will indeed cause more wear. It does not "blow up" the engine as you would like to overdramatize, but will lead to other maladies such as increased oil consumption. Kinda like YOUR car does.

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Quite frankly, I see close circles like BITOG hold no credibility or currency. In any case, the B(ob) in BITOG is no longer there as springman can confirm. So who or where is the authority of their information coming from now ? There is no longer an oil guy at BITOG, while the original so called 'oil' guy was just a noob stealing my ideas.
Don't really feel the need to clarify this for you, but I will. The "Bob" in Bobistheoilguy is Bob Winters. He is a real person and started the site along with some other very educated tribologists and chemists. Bob suffered some medical problems for awhile and gave up the site to a new owner. Most of the "brains" are still there to some respect, so the level of knowledge there is pretty much intact (unlike your level of knowledge). Bob is back on BITOG and also belongs to other related sites.

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Where is the evidence that says a particular numbers of particles per million part of oil is bad for the engine ? Those 'safe-limit' figures appearing on UOAs are nothing but arbitrary numbers made up to serve the purpose of the little shops. To be convincing, show us the recommendations by large oil companies or engine manufacturers.
Sure, keep telling yourself that. It's a pretty basic theory really, one that even YOU can grasp. More wear inducing particles (dirt for example)= more wear. Simple. And is what most oil companies and engine designers try to fight against. There is no magical limit, ALL wear inducing compounds are considered bad.

Now show us proof, like receipts from your therapist, that you are not silly stupid crazy, or it is true.
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:44 PM   #49
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I need a new air filter, but I don't like the stock one. I like the idea of a k & n filter that I can clean an reuse. I searched a few forums and I didn't find much on k & n filters. If anyone is using k & n filters, what do you think of them? Is there a better aftermarket filter that I can easily gets hold of?

In my truck I used a k & n filter, but the oil from it caused my mass air sensor to malfunction and I had to replace it and ditch the k & n filter. Has anyone seen these problems in the BMW
Whenever I've run into friendly little debates like this, OP, I just go stock...and we have friendly debates like this on everything...wipers, every fluid anywhere near our car, color of every fn thing on car, even what metal you want your bolts made out of...every fn everything...just go stock and you'll eventually end up with as good a car as you bought.

First snow here...should be about a foot...nice!

Doug

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Old 12-26-2010, 01:51 PM   #50
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:55 PM   #51
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Doug, don't forget to read GN's thread about how to drive (and buy tires for) winter driving .
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Old 12-26-2010, 01:58 PM   #52
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You really need to present a better argument than an engine "blowing up". No one is saying that and frankly, the only way to do that to your standard would be with some sort of explosive . More dirt (and I just threw out that figure to show more than normal amounts) will indeed cause more wear. It does not "blow up" the engine as you would like to overdramatize, but will lead to other maladies such as increased oil consumption. Kinda like YOUR car does.
My oil consumption has nothing to do with k&n since the car never had such a filter installed. So your claim of connection between k&n and consumption is just a random shot in the dark. Regretably, you cannot expect people to be convinced.


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Don't really feel the need to clarify this for you, but I will. The "Bob" in Bobistheoilguy is Bob Winters. He is a real person and started the site along with some other very educated tribologists and chemists. Bob suffered some medical problems for awhile and gave up the site to a new owner. Most of the "brains" are still there to some respect, so the level of knowledge there is pretty much intact (unlike your level of knowledge). Bob is back on BITOG and also belongs to other related sites.
So where did internet bob get his ideas from ? Which engine or oil company did he work for that gave him the semblence of authority on oil ?


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Sure, keep telling yourself that. It's a pretty basic theory really, one that even YOU can grasp. More wear inducing particles (dirt for example)= more wear. Simple. And is what most oil companies and engine designers try to fight against. There is no magical limit, ALL wear inducing compounds are considered bad.
Engine and oil companies have succeeded in their fight. This is why we are seeing ever increasing oil service intervals. Most k&n users more than likely change their oil significantly more frequently than manufactuer recommendations. Therefore, any increase in particle intake is tempered by more frequent removal. So the overal effect is neglegible. Further more, there's no evidence to show the size of particles allowed through by the filter is capable of wearing out the engine within its useful lifetime.

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Now show us proof, like receipts from your therapist, that you are not silly stupid crazy, or it is true.
I lack such receipts. That's more than the proof you seek.

Last edited by GoingNuts; 12-26-2010 at 02:03 PM.
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Old 12-26-2010, 02:04 PM   #53
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Whenever I've run into friendly little debates like this, OP, I just go stock...and we have friendly debates like this on everything...wipers, every fluid anywhere near our car, color of every fn thing on car, even what metal you want your bolts made out of...every fn everything...just go stock and you'll eventually end up with as good a car as you bought.

First snow here...should be about a foot...nice!


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Old 12-26-2010, 02:05 PM   #54
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Whenever I've run into friendly little debates like this, OP, I just go stock...and we have friendly debates like this on everything...wipers, every fluid anywhere near our car, color of every fn thing on car, even what metal you want your bolts made out of...every fn everything...just go stock and you'll eventually end up with as good a car as you bought.

First snow here...should be about a foot...nice!

Doug

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oem
If you're using the stock airbox, going aftermarket won't make your E46 noticeably faster; best option considering price/filtration/ease/MAF safe is to use the OEM filter brands like Mann. If you seek a perf boost, you will need a new intake design.

You can find a wealth of comparisons at the BITOG forums - all they discuss is differences in oil filters, air filters, and oils.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:19 PM   #55
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i run a k&n cone filter on my ecis intake. For people complaining about it "fucking up your maf"... That's what happens when you over oil your filter when you clean it. I've driven 7 years on the same filter cleaning it every 10,000 miles (recommended every 20,000) without a single problem.

An itg drop-in is probably the best aftermarket filter you can buy.
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:50 PM   #56
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ewes septic tanks, always takin the piss out of us poor Ozzies ( actually... I'm a KIWI, now you're confused eh? ) A quote " tis better to be thought of as a fool" etc etc. I have an 02 M3 & was going to use a K&N, but now will stay with the OEM, wasn't that the original question???? PS. love the good humor banter
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Old 12-26-2010, 04:50 PM   #57
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Doug, don't forget to read GN's thread about how to drive (and buy tires for) winter driving .
I think I contributed...unfortunately, part of what I said was serious and I even pretty much made it clear which part that was!

GN's having bought summer tires was a good example of thinking ahead.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:40 PM   #58
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He actually has proof
I have never seen any proof that k&n caused an engine to blow. This is the proof we are looking for. Any other proof is irrelevant. So what if there's more silicon in the oil ? If silcon doesn't blow up engines, we don't actually care.
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Old 12-26-2010, 05:58 PM   #59
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This thread, while highly amusing, does bring up an interesting point. No one seems to argue that K&N let in more particulate matter, but there seems to be no evidence that the increased dirt effects engine life. This is what I would be interested in knowing.
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Old 12-26-2010, 06:02 PM   #60
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Are you serious? If we follow your 'logic' then why use an air filter at all?
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