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Old 06-04-2013, 07:39 AM   #1
bimmerican21
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Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

I have an 02 325ci auto. The problem I'm having begins usually when I sit at light for a while. When I first start the car it's fine. But after it warms up then I stop at a light and sit at light, for about 20 seconds or longer, I feel it misfire then I get a check engine light. And when I take off it runs very sluggish and sounds like it's running on 4 or 5 cylinders. And it sounds like a chopper. What I usually do when this happens is I turn the car off then back on and it runs normal again. Until I sit at a light again. What could it be?! I have already replaced the whole crank case ventilation system, spark plugs, switched to Bosch coils, cleaned disa valve. Before I did all this it was worse, it would shut off on me sometimes. I'm thinking my o2 sensors are what causing my problems. Just hit 160,000 miles and I'm sure they've never been replaced.

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Old 06-04-2013, 07:45 AM   #2
harrykman90
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have you changed your intake camshaft sensor?
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:45 AM   #3
tcphoto
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A code reader is invaluable and it will help diagnose the issue. I just went through something similar and have multiple items on your list plus all four O2 sensors. Get the codes read and post the result.
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:45 AM   #4
jfoj
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Get codes read. Post results back for comment.

Get the Freeze Frame data as well, this is very helpful in these situations.

Likely what is happening it you are suffering from misfire(s) with fuel cut off, turning the engine off and restarting will clear the fuel cut off situation. But I would rule out other simpler and cheaper items first.

Depending on what cylinders you are having issues with, it could be a fuel delivery issue as well? How old is your fuel filter? Change it if you do not know how long it has been on the car.

You also need to purchase a scan tool or software than can read and display real time data if you plan on keeping your car and DIYing. It will pay for itself the first time you use it. http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=967204

Check first 3 links below in my signature.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-04-2013, 07:48 AM   #5
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

I have not changed the intake cam sensor, just the exhaust. If it was that wouldn't I get a code saying something about that sensor? Before I replaced my exhaust cam sensor I had a code for it. I will post my codes when I get out of class at 11. Thanks for the fast responses guys.

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Old 06-04-2013, 07:59 AM   #6
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

I was considering the fuel filter also bc I'm sure that hasn't been replaced either.

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Old 06-04-2013, 10:18 AM   #7
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

The codes I get when it begins to misfire and run like **** are p1349 1351 and 1353. They are all misfire codes.

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Old 06-04-2013, 11:34 AM   #8
jfoj
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Need Freeze Frame data and fuel trims at idle.

Most misfires at idle are vacuum leak related.

You seem to have misfires for cylinder 4, 5 & 6, which are on the fuel inlet side of the fuel rail, so doubtful you have a fuel related issue.

There are a number of vacuum lines that connect under the intake between runner 5 & 6 for the SAP which your car should have a vacuum controlled SAP Combi valve. I would check this closely as well check the DISA O-ring. Read about the DISA O-ring in the first link below in my signature. You cannot see signatures using the Bimmer App, best to get on a computer and log in.

You may have a combination of vacuum leaks, but fuel trim values will give you a much better idea of how the fuel mixture is running.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299

Last edited by jfoj; 06-04-2013 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 06-04-2013, 11:40 AM   #9
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

My scanner isn't that cool so I gotta go to autoparts store and use their scanner for that :/ but when I do I'll post the results.

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Old 06-04-2013, 11:43 AM   #10
jfoj
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Parts store scanner may not even display real time data if it is a cheaper version.

You have an Android phone, buy the Torque Pro app for $5 and then go to Amazon and buy the ELM327 Bluetooth OBD adapter for $15 and for $20 you have a pretty good tool that can read and display real time data, log data, clear codes, and do a lot of other things.
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Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:09 PM   #11
willsbma
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Smoke test for vac leaks
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Old 06-04-2013, 12:11 PM   #12
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

Oh ok cool. When I get paid I'll have to invest in that. Thanks.

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Old 06-04-2013, 01:59 PM   #13
engineear
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I've got the same 3 codes...I guess I'll be getting a decent scanner.
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Old 06-04-2013, 03:24 PM   #14
jfoj
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Start here for scanner and software info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=967204

Then read the first 3 links below in my signature.

This will keep you busy for a while.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-05-2013, 01:43 AM   #15
engineear
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Thanks, I'm losing sleep. A quick recap of what I'm doing and what's coming up. Bought a 2001 325i with 120000 miles. This weekend my son and I will replace A-arms, struts/shocks with new perches, bump stops, end links, front sway bar bushings...
We determined this after putting it on a rack to get a close look. It all needs to be replaced. While there, it looks like the front main seal needs to be replaced, a lot of oil on the front of the engine...after reading a few things maybe it's
something else. But, the funny part is this. When we take it off the lift and I go to drive it away...THAT'S when the codes came up. A friend says the car knows when it's not on a BMW lift...funny. Someone had a scanner to bring up and clear the codes.
Haven't shown up since. But, she still runs a bit shaky in the morning for a bit, until it warms up then all is ok. I noticed today, sitting at a light, the car was at temperature, a slight buzz throughout the car. Stepped on the gas pulling away from the light and all is smooth again. So, after the ride is tamed, looks like I'll be hugging this motor, feeling and groping around, getting intimate so to speak, trying to locate said vacuum hoses.

While we're under the car is it easier to find some of these hoses, or it's mostly topside?

This is a great article, well thought out, all the input...very helpful to say the least. Thanks for everything guys!
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Old 06-05-2013, 05:22 AM   #16
jfoj
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engineear

Probably should start a thread specific to your issue rather than mix in this thread.

Your oil leak is not likely the front engine seal, there are a few very common problems that cause the front of the engine to be a mess.

The oil filter housing gaskets leak ALL the time in these cars, cheap and fairly easy to resolve. Search OFHG in the forum here, more than you care to read about.

Power steering hoses and power steering reservoir should be replaced. Drain fluid and replace with synthetic ATF, something like Mobil 1 or Valvoline synthetic ATF is fine. The hoses swell and leak, the reservoir has an O-ring on the cap that flattens out over time, there is a non serviceable filter in the reservoir.

The CCV will leak oil, the lower CCV hose that connects to the dipstick tube will likely be torn and leaking oil. Just step up and replace the CCV and all the associated hoses when you replace the OFHG, it will be easier to access when the OFHG is off. If you also do the PS reservior at the same time, then it will likely be even easier.

The upper VANOS hose can also leak oil, usually these are not too bad of an oil leaker, but they can leak. Again, search the forum, plenty of comments on this.

While you are under the car, replace the fuel filter, it will likely be original or VERY old. Do it now, it will need to be replaced. Also replace the vacuum hose to the fuel pressure regulator on the filter.

As for other things to consider, replace the lower intake boot, they all crack and leak at some point, just get is out of the way and inspect the DISA and replace the DISA O-ring. Search the classified section for MJLavelle and get an O-ring from him, they are about $2.50. This is not officially a serviceable part, but will need to be replaced.

This is a good starting point for your, the search Mango's cooling system info in the stickies in the first few posts in the general forum.

Good luck, enjoy and get yourself a decent scan tool as you WILL need it!

You can do this for under $30 to start with if you check this out - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=967204
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temps, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose fan switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:12 AM   #17
tcphoto
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If you look at some of my posts over the past month, you will find that I was having similar issues. I would inspect the vacuum hoses on the intake boot, SAP and vacuum control switch which is located on the back side of the intake. Follow the vacuum pipe down the exhaust manifold around the valve cover gasket, those hoses literally disintegrated between my fingers. My list included cleaning the ICV, replacing the intake boot, most vacuum hoses, all four O2 sensors, coils and plugs. The gasket for the Disa is on it's way and I'll be doing the VCG and OFHG in the next week to clean up the engine.
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Old 06-05-2013, 06:28 AM   #18
j2sound
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Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

First thing i would do is unplugg your maf sensor, leave it unplugged and go for a drive, (your eml light may come on but dont worry about it, will go out once plugged back in) if your problem goes away then its a vaccum leak for def as unplugging the maf cause the ecu to run the fuelling in an open loop on safe per-configured parameters


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Old 06-06-2013, 08:06 AM   #19
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

I'll drive with my maf unplugged on the way home and see what that does. Thanks guys.

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Old 06-06-2013, 10:57 AM   #20
bimmerican21
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Re: Runs like crap after sitting at idle for too long

I drove it with out the maf plugged in. At idle I still felt a little misfire but the check engine light didn't come on and it stayed running on all 6. When the maf is unplugged it runs in an open loop, but I highly doubt it's a vacuum leak bc I've checked all hose and the whole ccv system is new. And the codes that I get when my misfire and sluggishness (feels and sounds like 1 or 2 cylinders down) are p1349 1351 and 1353. So a vacuum leak isn't the main problem here. Could old o2 sensors and old fuel filter cause this? That's the only other thing I can think of that would cause it run like crap.

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