The General AR Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Locutus09

Reedo,

Any opinions on buying a .22LR AR? I'm not looking for any type of build.

I want to stay below or around $500, if possible. The reason I want to go .22 is because I can't shoot hi-powered at the local range (soft point or lead round nose). The cost of ammo is also a concern.

Thanks

I had one and sold it to my father. I picked up an 22 conversion kit for my AR, so I didn't really need the 22 AR anymore. He loves it. We put it through an Appleseed shoot which ended up being around 500 rounds in a weekend without one misfeed or hiccup of any kind. I would highly recommend it if you are looking for a dedicated 22 AR style rifle.

I should add, that accuracy isn't a problem (as long as you do your job) with it either. He was consitantly shooting 4MOA at 100 yards with Federal target ammunition, and sometimes better.

30% off at Troy today with code friday

Troy extended black Friday/cyber Monday 25% off with code "Turkey"

Just recently purchased some cheap parts for my cheap Fab-10...Here's how it looks before the parts come in...

Originally Posted by 04_e46

Troy extended black Friday/cyber Monday 25% off with code "Turkey"

I am trying to find a reason to buy something from Troy, but I have absolutely no need for anything right now....

Originally Posted by Reedo302

I am trying to find a reason to buy something from Troy, but I have absolutely no need for anything right now....

haha I was going through their site too...just trying to find something to buy. was thinking about picking up these for my M&P 15-22 to replace the crappy ladder rails...anybody like em?

http://troyind.com/%20/battlerails/2262

I actually do like those rail covers, I would have got some but I've got plenty of knights armament and ergo ladder covers.

Made a trip to rifle gear earlier today and was planing on spending around 175ish for a battle comp 1.0 and ergo sure grip but ended walking out of there spending 450ish...haha...total fail...but on the up side im bailing out a lower in 10 days and the cheap/FAB- 10...AR should be complete...

Anyone know how to install the surefire mb556k without using the chart that it comes with?I picked one up but it didn't have the instructions.

Ok, first post. Don't flame. (Everyone can chime in with what you have to offer)

Reedo, I am in the process of studying and learning about building an AR15 from scratch. I found a pretty decent deal on a RRA stripped lower ($90) that I might be getting for christmas from the wife. Along with that I found stripped M4 flat top uppers for $80, and I think this will be a great starting point. While doing my research, and looking through here I want to build a multipurpose rifle system. Here is what I am looking to do, and you can tell me if I am crazy.

I want two rifles in one, but not exactly. Basically, I want to build a super high quality lower (2 stage match trigger) with KNS Gen 2 non rotating pins, possibly adding some other candy, but I'll have two complete uppers, possibly in different calibers.

First upper: 16" total length barrel (possibly 14.5 with the muzzle comp you have on yours) chrome lined, with mil spec M4 bolt carrier. Flat top, quad rail, ACOG/Eotech, light, laser, fore grip and maybe an M203 37mm launcher, or 12 gauge 3 round attachment (not for all the time use, mostly flares, smoke and door busters. You can also find pepper spray and less than lethal rounds...). Basically, I want a flat top M4 (with M4 extended feed ramps) in 16" total size.

Second upper: This is the reach out and touch someone upper. I want long barrel (20-24"), flat top design with variable optics (at least 12 possibly higher top end), bi pod. I want this to be for long range target shooting up to 1000 yards. I want to learn long range shooting as well as close range (50 to 200). I think this would also be a fun rifle to use, but it is more on the back burner right now.

If money allows, i also want to get my hands on the 50 Beowulf upper just for sh!ts and giggles... And when the SHTF, I want that kind of power on my side.

My main question is... What are some of the better parts to buy/use/install to make your AR perform the best. I have heard great things on the RRA 2 stage match trigger, and some others as well. After finding the KNS non rotating pins, I wondered if there were other higher end parts out there to take over the duties of the standard parts. I hear great things about the M16 Mil spec bolt carriers, and will probably get one of them too. The short rifle will be for target, plinking and home defense. The second will be to learn long distance and needs to be pin point accurate to around 800, but that is again, for a later date.

What parts would you suggest if building from scratch (no kits will be purchased). All parts will be individual purchases, and hand assembled by myself. For the record, I am really good at mechanical work and have done a complete rework of my Glock 19 firing mechanism, full trigger job and am up with maintenance on it. Time to get a Black Rifle. Let me know what you think.

Also, I understand the FFL transfer and legal aspects of smaller than 16" barrels, and overall length of 26" unless a stamp is paid for. I have a permit to carry a firearm in PA. I will be able to transfer to my FFL without an issue on the lower receiver. I am not a noob, just a noob to AR15s...

Originally Posted by kaput

Ok, first post. Don't flame. (Everyone can chime in with what you have to offer)

Reedo, I am in the process of studying and learning about building an AR15 from scratch. I found a pretty decent deal on a RRA stripped lower ($90) that I might be getting for christmas from the wife. Along with that I found stripped M4 flat top uppers for $80, and I think this will be a great starting point. While doing my research, and looking through here I want to build a multipurpose rifle system. Here is what I am looking to do, and you can tell me if I am crazy.

I want two rifles in one, but not exactly. Basically, I want to build a super high quality lower (2 stage match trigger) with KNS Gen 2 non rotating pins, possibly adding some other candy, but I'll have two complete uppers, possibly in different calibers.

First upper: 16" total length barrel (possibly 14.5 with the muzzle comp you have on yours) chrome lined, with mil spec M4 bolt carrier. Flat top, quad rail, ACOG/Eotech, light, laser, fore grip and maybe an M203 37mm launcher, or 12 gauge 3 round attachment (not for all the time use, mostly flares, smoke and door busters. You can also find pepper spray and less than lethal rounds...). Basically, I want a flat top M4 (with M4 extended feed ramps) in 16" total size.

Second upper: This is the reach out and touch someone upper. I want long barrel (20-24"), flat top design with variable optics (at least 12 possibly higher top end), bi pod. I want this to be for long range target shooting up to 1000 yards. I want to learn long range shooting as well as close range (50 to 200). I think this would also be a fun rifle to use, but it is more on the back burner right now.

If money allows, i also want to get my hands on the 50 Beowulf upper just for sh!ts and giggles... And when the SHTF, I want that kind of power on my side.

My main question is... What are some of the better parts to buy/use/install to make your AR perform the best. I have heard great things on the RRA 2 stage match trigger, and some others as well. After finding the KNS non rotating pins, I wondered if there were other higher end parts out there to take over the duties of the standard parts. I hear great things about the M16 Mil spec bolt carriers, and will probably get one of them too. The short rifle will be for target, plinking and home defense. The second will be to learn long distance and needs to be pin point accurate to around 800, but that is again, for a later date.

What parts would you suggest if building from scratch (no kits will be purchased). All parts will be individual purchases, and hand assembled by myself. For the record, I am really good at mechanical work and have done a complete rework of my Glock 19 firing mechanism, full trigger job and am up with maintenance on it. Time to get a Black Rifle. Let me know what you think.

Also, I understand the FFL transfer and legal aspects of smaller than 16" barrels, and overall length of 26" unless a stamp is paid for. I have a permit to carry a firearm in PA. I will be able to transfer to my FFL without an issue on the lower receiver. I am not a noob, just a noob to AR15s...

Good Lord! I hope you have some serious cash money because that won't be cheap! I mean each upper will probably cost you 500+, the lower another 200+. Optics for the first 500-1500, for second 1000-2000. Accessories for first another 400, 200 for the second. M203??! Haha, 200 for the stamp plus another 2000-5000 ish for a colt, 1500-2000 for an lmt (think thats the other manufacturer).

So, upper 1: $3000-$6000 depending on how it's configured.

Upper 2: $2000-4000


Very rough estimates, might not be quite close. But a general idea; hope you've got some dough.

Originally Posted by 04_e46

Anyone know how to install the surefire mb556k without using the chart that it comes with?I picked one up but it didn't have the instructions.

If it didn't come with a set of shims, pick up a set at:
http://www.advanced-armament.com/product.aspx?pid=719

Basically, you take everything off the muzzle, then screw on the brake until it's on as far as it can go. Then, back it off until it's timed properly, meaning that the top is on top, bottom is on bottom, etc. That gap at the back is the thickness you need to take up with shims. Select the shims you need to fill that gap, plus a hair extra for the added torque value compressing the shims. You may have to do some hit-or-miss experimentation with shims until you get it right.

Originally Posted by kaput

Ok, first post. Don't flame. (Everyone can chime in with what you have to offer)

Reedo, I am in the process of studying and learning about building an AR15 from scratch. I found a pretty decent deal on a RRA stripped lower ($90) that I might be getting for christmas from the wife. Along with that I found stripped M4 flat top uppers for $80, and I think this will be a great starting point. While doing my research, and looking through here I want to build a multipurpose rifle system. Here is what I am looking to do, and you can tell me if I am crazy.

I want two rifles in one, but not exactly. Basically, I want to build a super high quality lower (2 stage match trigger) with KNS Gen 2 non rotating pins, possibly adding some other candy, but I'll have two complete uppers, possibly in different calibers.

I have a couple thoughts here-
Two-Stage Trigger- Most two-stage triggers have a weak point in the "foot" of the hammer that gets manipulated by the disconnectors/sears. The only two-stage triggers that have consistently proven to be reliable and durable are the Geissele triggers. If you want a high quality trigger, you really do need to go with a Geissele. There is a trigger for every application. I would recommend the SSA-E or the SD-E for precision applications.

KNS pins- These are sort of unnecessary. They reduce wear to the lower receiver, but you can get anywhere from ~50,000-75,000rds out of a lower receiver before you have wear issues appear in the pin holes on a lower receiver. If I were running a registered A1 or A2 pre-86 lower, I'd definitely use a set of KNS pins to protect the receiver for as long as possible, since that lower is basically irreplaceable. Otherwise, it's basically $30 you don't NEED to spend. It doesn't hurt anything, so have at it if you want them on your gun. It's only $30, so not a huge deal.

Originally Posted by kaput

First upper: 16" total length barrel (possibly 14.5 with the muzzle comp you have on yours) chrome lined, with mil spec M4 bolt carrier. Flat top, quad rail, ACOG/Eotech, light, laser, fore grip and maybe an M203 37mm launcher, or 12 gauge 3 round attachment (not for all the time use, mostly flares, smoke and door busters. You can also find pepper spray and less than lethal rounds...). Basically, I want a flat top M4 (with M4 extended feed ramps) in 16" total size.

In general, I discourage buying pinned 14.5" barrels. Once it's pinned, that muzzle device is on there and not coming off without basically being drilled and cut off. Technically by NFA/BATFE regs, it's supposed to be pinned AND welded. This is a problem because you take a pretty big chance at ruining a barrel and muzzle device if you need to take these parts off. Additionally, the barrel cannot really be altered. Since you need to install the gas block before installing the muzzle device, if you have a problem with the gas block or you just want to change to a different one, you need to remove the muzzle device. Now you have a problem because it's pinned and welded on there. The smaller muzzle devices like the BattleComp 1.0 and 2.0 are as short as 1" past the crown, so you're basically talking about a 16" length (14.5" barrel & 1.5+" device), or 17" (16" barrel) length. That's 1"... not much at all. Add to it that you get an additional 50-75fps of muzzle velocity, and the ability to remove the muzzle device easily, and it's a much better option.

I'm a big fan of CHF barrels. CHF barrels have double the service life of a button swaged barrel, and much more heat resistance. There are several good kinds out there, but the best three in my opinion are the Noveske, Daniel Defense and BCM barrels. You will need a Government contour barrel to accommodate a grenade launcher or shotgun (MasterKey).
If you want the secondary weapon attachment ability, you need a rail that can accommodate it. The best one for this is the Daniel Defense RIS-II rail. The bottom detaches for that purpose. Otherwise, you need either a VLTOR CAS or VLTOR VIS setup.
If you can locate a KAC RAS, that will work too, but not as good. I personally prefer a free-float rail like the DD or VLTORs.

Originally Posted by kaput

Second upper: This is the reach out and touch someone upper. I want long barrel (20-24"), flat top design with variable optics (at least 12 possibly higher top end), bi pod. I want this to be for long range target shooting up to 1000 yards. I want to learn long range shooting as well as close range (50 to 200). I think this would also be a fun rifle to use, but it is more on the back burner right now.

If you're going for a cartridge like the 6.5 Grendel or 6mm CM, you are in the right range for barrel length. However, if you want to stick with 5.56mm, I would suggest going with either 18" or 20" barrels. For the most part, most companies are not producing anything longer than 18", with a some making a 20", and only a select few making longer. The reason is because it's been shown that the heavier bullets that can hit out to 1000yds, which are the 75gr, 77gr, 80gr and 82gr bullets, will all reach max velocity in the 18" barrels. The heavier bullets have less space in the case, so there's less powder to burn than with a shorter bullet like a 40gr. Anything over 20" is basically a varmint hunting barrel. Army Rangers and Navy SEALs are making documented confirmed kills beyond 900m with Mk12 rifles, which have 18" barrels.

I would really push for an 18" SPR barrel. Your best options:
Noveske 18" SPR
Noveske 18" Lightweight SPR
RainierArms Match (Wilson blank, WOA cut)
RainierArms UltraMatch (Shilen blank, WOA cut)
WOA SS Match Grade
BCM SS410 18" SPR
Daniel Defense 18" S2W CHF

If you NEED a 20", you're basically looking at a DMR contour configuration, which is a heavy barrel style. Your best options:
BCM SAM-R 20"
WOA Squad Designated Marksman
RainierArms UltraMatch 20SDM

For a rail, you have several options. I like the VLTOR VIS, or some other kind of polylithic upper rail system like a POF P415 upper assembly, or the new Seekins Precision one that's coming out soon.
Otherwise, any free float rail system that creates an uninterrupted top rail connection with the upper receiver.

For scope, you would need something with enough elevation travel to hit out to 1000yds. If you are shooting something like the 77gr SMKs that are popular with long range, you will need approximately 13mils or 44.5MOA of elevation up-travel fro after you zero. You need to have a scope capable of that much elevation. The question is how much you're willing to spend on optics. What is your max budget for a scope?

Also, you may need to supplement the scope with a canted mount. The LaRue SPR-S LT158 has 10MOA cant, and the LaRue PSR LT-112 has 20MOA cant. Both are excellent options for your scope to ensure it gets to 1000yds.

Originally Posted by kaput

If money allows, i also want to get my hands on the 50 Beowulf upper just for sh!ts and giggles... And when the SHTF, I want that kind of power on my side.

My main question is... What are some of the better parts to buy/use/install to make your AR perform the best. I have heard great things on the RRA 2 stage match trigger, and some others as well. After finding the KNS non rotating pins, I wondered if there were other higher end parts out there to take over the duties of the standard parts. I hear great things about the M16 Mil spec bolt carriers, and will probably get one of them too. The short rifle will be for target, plinking and home defense. The second will be to learn long distance and needs to be pin point accurate to around 800, but that is again, for a later date.

If you got to RainierArms.com, basically anything sold there is good quality (sans the DPMS junk). Those, and then the stuff on BravoCompanyUSA.com. The list of quality components is pretty exhaustive, but anything from the bigger names is typically good quality. RainierArms and BCM are good about selling only good products. If you can find stuff on there, it's likely a good option. It's stuff from DD, BCM, VLTOR, Armalite, LMT, RainierArms (the ThunderBolt BCG is a great deal), Samson, Harris, LaRue, Noveske, etc.

Originally Posted by kaput

What parts would you suggest if building from scratch (no kits will be purchased). All parts will be individual purchases, and hand assembled by myself. For the record, I am really good at mechanical work and have done a complete rework of my Glock 19 firing mechanism, full trigger job and am up with maintenance on it. Time to get a Black Rifle. Let me know what you think.

Also, I understand the FFL transfer and legal aspects of smaller than 16" barrels, and overall length of 26" unless a stamp is paid for. I have a permit to carry a firearm in PA. I will be able to transfer to my FFL without an issue on the lower receiver. I am not a noob, just a noob to AR15s...

Again, I would select components from RainierArms or BCM (minus the DPMS components). Companies like Brownells and MidwayUSA sell a lot of crap. I get my small parts like pins, springs and gas rings from Brownells, but that's about it. Like I said, the list is pretty exhaustive of the good brands. You're really have to break it down on a part-by-part basis.

Originally Posted by david05111

Good Lord! I hope you have some serious cash money because that won't be cheap! I mean each upper will probably cost you 500+, the lower another 200+. Optics for the first 500-1500, for second 1000-2000. Accessories for first another 400, 200 for the second. M203??! Haha, 200 for the stamp plus another 2000-5000 ish for a colt, 1500-2000 for an lmt (think thats the other manufacturer).

So, upper 1: $3000-$6000 depending on how it's configured.

Upper 2: $2000-4000


Very rough estimates, might not be quite close. But a general idea; hope you've got some dough.

Just from the checking I have done, you are looking at top notch components, and are way ahead of the curve. The M203 can be had for $299 plus a stamp if required, but for flares and smoke I am not sure. The largest expense in most of these builds will be the optics. My first gun (the 16") will have quality upper parts, and be the main service gun, and be completed first. I am focusing on this one first, and will have the build completed before any other parts (unless I find a deal I cannot pass up) are bought for the second upper.

My idea is rather than build multiple guns, I want to use the same tactics by the military in conjunction with the M4/Beowulf deployment. If I keep the same caliber, but have the ability to use one for long and one for short, it'll keep costs down.

Here is the M203 page: http://www.firequest.com/37mm-accessories.html

It might not be a Colt, and might not be super reliable, but it is more for show, and maybe smoke/flare. It is really a last option I would add when the rifles are done. More conversation piece than anything.

I will get 5.56 chambering for the first, and as reedo put it, I can use that for both. The idea of using the same lower for both will keep costs down. If I spend $1500 on the basics for both uppers and one lower, I feel I am in the the green, as I will technically have 2 rifles to play with, depending on the situation. 3 if I go beowulf as well.

Optics are the big ones. An Eotech with a 3x magnifier is almost essential. I hate iron sights on AR15s. I dislike the look and feel the Holo will be better for fast sighting. The long range rifle will probably be next years project, as I plan to have this one done by this time next year, depending on funds and interest.

I plan on adding this to the fun as well: http://www.caatactical.com/viewProdu...=267&catID=376

I figure, you can never have to little in your arsenal. I already have happy sticks for the glock, so a 33 round carbine will be awesome.

I will say this. I was planning on buying an H&K PSG-1 last year to start learning long distance shooting with a gun that is IMHO just freaking awesome, but the $15,000 price of getting one is a little too much. I would like a Rem. 700 Target Tactical, but again, $1500 for a bolt action rifle, when I can spend half that and change my AR to a long range Semi auto weapon is more appealing.

I think I'll get about $4K deep into this, including optics... $5K if I get really good optics. I am still up in the air on the range I need. I want to learn to shoot to 1000 yards, but cost and range availability will prohibit that most likely.

Thanks Reedo for all the advice, but I will ask one more thing...

Along the same lines as the question I asked before, are there specific parts that are a must have in an Ar15 build? I know it is personal preference, but so far, your opinions seem to line up with my research, and it'll take years to know what you know now. If it were you, what would you use to take the RRA lower and the M4 upper and make a super solid, ultra reliable and excessively accurate rifle?

Originally Posted by kaput

I will say this. I was planning on buying an H&K PSG-1 last year to start learning long distance shooting with a gun that is IMHO just freaking awesome, but the $15,000 price of getting one is a little too much. I would like a Rem. 700 Target Tactical, but again, $1500 for a bolt action rifle, when I can spend half that and change my AR to a long range Semi auto weapon is more appealing.

You can spend $2700 on a GA Precision GAP-10 or $3000 on a LaRue OBR and get a more accurate rifle than the PSG-1.
The M700 Tactical Target is a nice rifle, but again, it's unnecesary. You'd do better to buy an M700 SPS Tactical or M700 SPS Tactical AAC-SD for $600 and change the stock and do other minor custom work and you'll get to $1500-2k with a far superior bolt gun.

$700 goes a long way:
http://shortactioncustoms.com/?p=636

Originally Posted by kaput

I think I'll get about $4K deep into this, including optics... $5K if I get really good optics. I am still up in the air on the range I need. I want to learn to shoot to 1000 yards, but cost and range availability will prohibit that most likely.

If you are looking to save some money, but still want decent optics, here are a couple options to start with:
Weaver Tactical 3-15x50 FFP EMDR $699
Vortex Viper PST 4-16x50 FFP EBR1 $849
Bushnell Elite Tactical 3-12x44 FFP $898

There are other great ones at higher price points, but given what you want for magnification, this gives you a starting point.

Originally Posted by kaput

Thanks Reedo for all the advice, but I will ask one more thing...

Along the same lines as the question I asked before, are there specific parts that are a must have in an Ar15 build? I know it is personal preference, but so far, your opinions seem to line up with my research, and it'll take years to know what you know now. If it were you, what would you use to take the RRA lower and the M4 upper and make a super solid, ultra reliable and excessively accurate rifle?

There are parts you want like an upgraded 5-coil extractor spring, and then it's basically all about the trigger. If you are looking at receiver extensions, make sure to get the mil-spec one. I would recommend getting two stocks to change out- one for tactical and one for precision. For tactical, use whatever you want. For precision, use the LaRue RISR/CTR setup so that you can utilize the charging handle.

Trigger is a big one. As I stated above, Geissele is the best, hands down.
After that, invest in a muzzle brake that cuts recoil. The AAC Shorty Brake, SPR-M4, 51T or Brakeout 51T work well. The SureFire MB556K is also good quality and cuts recoil. The PWS FSC556 brake gets a lot of hype. The Ops Inc brake also works great. The RainierArms XTC or RMC work exceptionally well for a budget cost.
The barrel is important, and if I wanted absolute extreme accuracy with no expense spared, I'd fork up for the Noveske. The polygonal rifling helps to create a better seal and give higher pressure and velocity. You'll pay to play, but Noveske barrels are 0.5MOA or better consistently.
Accuracy with an AR is a quirky thing. The AR platform has a unique characteristic, but all of the mechanical accuracy is in the trigger, barrel and muzzle device. If you get these components, you'll do well.
Then, invest in some 20rd PMAGs. 30rounders won't let you get low enough to the ground/bench.
The glass is also extremely important. When it comes time to glass, don't skimp. Some people think that spending $700-900 for a scope is insane, but in the tactical world, that's the middle-low end for pricing. There are guys with $3000 scopes on SPRs. If you can't see it clearly, you can't hit it.

I would recommend that you also start to look into handloading. I do occasionally buy Hornady 75gr BTHP match and Black Hills 77gr SMK match loads, but it does get expensive. I reload using Lake City brass and Sierra 77gr SMK (cannelured), and with reloads I'm getting .460MOA. It's easier to tailor a load to your needs and gun. I tweaked my loads until I found something that had good accuracy.

If you want a consistent 1000yd round, the 5.56 is able to get there, but not consistently if there are outside elements like wind or moisture. If you want a more true 1000yd round, I would consider going to a 7.62 at some point. It's more realistic to look at the 5.56 as being an 800yd round, with capability to push it out to 1000yds when the conditions allow.
The type of upper and lower don't matter, so long as they're inside proper spec. I used an older DPMS upper/lower for my SPR for crying out loud, and that's not exactly high quality.

Thanks. Exactly what I was looking for.

Reedo has pretty much covered it, but I will point out that the launcher you were looking at (the link) is NOT an M203. That is a 37mm launcher, not a 40mm like the M203. You can find the 37mm launchers fairly cheap, but you won't find an M203 under $1200 methinks. Still, you can use the 37mm launcher to shoot a variety of projectiles.

Also, yes, my estimates were for fairly high-quality, upper end parts. That's probably just my own bias going into it though; if I'm building a primary rifle system, I put the best parts I can into it. It just makes me feel better. But I mean, a quality laser with pressure switch will probably cost you $100+, $150-$200 for a light, eotech/aimpoint + magnifyer $800-$1000, bipod $100-$150. That's not counting the second optic, mags, etc.

Listen to Reedo, he knows his stuff.

And more to the point, I'd rather have the cheap smoke launcher than waste the money on a real one that I cannot buy real grenades for. Just saying.

Originally Posted by kaput

And more to the point, I'd rather have the cheap smoke launcher than waste the money on a real one that I cannot buy real grenades for. Just saying.

Makes sense. Pretty sure you CAN get the actual grenades for it though, as a destructive device. Of course, each one would cost a ton and require a tax stamp.

Reedo: it came with shims and some rocksett.

Anyone have a double rifle soft case, if so what brand? Just ordered 42" from sportsman guide, supposedly it's made by "voodoo tactical" but the site itself does not say so...but I got 2 others from another forum to vouch that it is a legit voodoo tactical case.

Originally Posted by 04_e46

Reedo: it came with shims and some rocksett.

Anyone have a double rifle soft case, if so what brand? Just ordered 42" from sportsman guide, supposedly it's made by "voodoo tactical" but the site itself does not say so...but I got 2 others from another forum to vouch that it is a legit voodoo tactical case.

It's legit voodoo. I love mine. I also ordered one for mpoweredm and his says voodoo too. IMO they're super nice bags for the money. Fits 2 rifle and has 2 padded pockets for handguns. And I had a bipod and about 12 mags in the pouches last week.

Yup mine says voodoo on it as well. I love it. Plenty of space for extra stuff to go in aside from the two rifles. Camo looks sick too.

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec

It's legit voodoo. I love mine. I also ordered one for mpoweredm and his says voodoo too. IMO they're super nice bags for the money. Fits 2 rifle and has 2 padded pockets for handguns. And I had a bipod and about 12 mags in the pouches last week.