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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 03-09-2011, 09:17 PM   #21
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Post some pictures of these mags...I haven't really taken a close look at the mags.

The VLTOR lower looks pretty good, like any other AR.

I just ordered my ELCAN SpecterDR and Doctor Optic. Gen 3 which is the latest version and will do a in-depth write-up to see if I can justify $2500 for an optic, however I owned a ATN MARS 4 at one time and that was $3600 but with NV I could justify it...well kinda.

As for the original topic I wouldn't skimp on an AR and I have heard nothing but bad things from several brands that I see people rushing to buy due to price. Don't skimp, regardless of budget IMO. If you can't afford it save. You will be happy in the long run. Just like optics.

I have owned 11 Trijicon Acogs over the past 24 months aside from the 6x ones and 4 Eotechs, and 2 Aimpoints, 1 Cmore....and now the top of the line Elcan SpecterDR on the way. I already know on quality alone I will not buy another Acog or Eotech again. Aimpoint and Cmore I would. But having the Elcan I won't need either... Love dual roll but we will see.

Don't get me wrong Acogs are nice optics if you are on a budget. Eotechs are pretty cheap and so is the Cmore. The Aimpoint Comp M4 is up there and is a great item IMO. But if your budget is under $1500 then by all means you can't beat the Acog or Aimpoint. But there are like 8 optics over $2000 I can think of that I want to try. To me its trial and error. lol So I am starting with the Elcan..Well I started with the ATN MARS 4...Then probably try the nightvision add on to the Elcan. They start at $5400...
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:21 PM   #22
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For under $1500 for a ranging optic for DMR/SDMR purpose (like what an ACOG is for), I think that the money is best spent on a US Optics scope. Instead of an ACOG, you could spend your money on an SN-12 4x with either the JPJ1 reticle, or the Circle Chevron. You don't have the BAC capability, but the optics are better and you have a focus, so the infinite focus of the ACOG that f*cks with your eyes doesn't exist.

JPJ1:





Circle Chevron







Otherwise, the SN-4S is the other option, and I think a better one. The 1-4x magnification with the better optics. Again, same reticle choices. The 5.5x and 6x ACOGs are expensive, but I don't think they provide a good enough price point to bypass the USO SN-4 1.5-6x for a proper DMR/SDMR and battle rifle optic.


The ARC mags are nice, but I'm going to have to get used to the rounds loading on opposite sides. On USGI and PMAGs, the first round is positioned on the left side. On the ARC, it's on the right. This might be confusing for when trying to determine if you loaded 28, 29, or 30 rounds, depending on whether you prefer to down-load your mags or not.
My camera sucks, but here are some internet pictures of the ARC mag:




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Old 03-10-2011, 12:15 AM   #23
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Yeah like I said there are some other (some US) optics I am looking at too but want to try the Elcan. I hear they hype and negativity on some forums so going to try it out. I liked the Acogs but the 4X's have their issues.

Those new mags look sweet. I am going to pick up a couple of them and try them out.

Thanks for the pics.
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Old 03-10-2011, 10:19 AM   #24
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What is a good online resource if I wanted to build a 12.5" AR? I'm assuming this would fall under SBR so that would require additional paperwork. It doesn't necessarily have to be that short, but I'm looking for a barrel length under 16".
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Old 03-10-2011, 11:02 AM   #25
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What is a good online resource if I wanted to build a 12.5" AR? I'm assuming this would fall under SBR so that would require additional paperwork. It doesn't necessarily have to be that short, but I'm looking for a barrel length under 16".
Anything under 16" is an SBR and will require a stamp if it's even allowed in your area.
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:55 PM   #26
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Building a Short Barrel Rifle (SBR) requires completing an ATF Form 1, which is the Application to Make and Register a Firearm.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-1.pdf


If you want to buy one pre-made, then you fill out the ATF Form 4, the Application for Tax Paid Transfer and Registration of Firearm.
http://www.atf.gov/forms/download/atf-f-5320-4.pdf


With either of these, there is a section where you will need the authorization of your local chief of police or county sheriff to sign off giving you the OK to buy or make the weapon. This is all supposing an SBR is legal in your state. If you have a CLEO (chief law enforcement officer) that will sign off, then you have to follow the directions on the forms, which includes the need for two finger print cards. If you are going to build the rifle yourself, you will need to buy the lower receiver before any of this, so that you can include the serial number on the form. If you want to buy a rifle that's already been built, you have to have the rifle transferred into a dealer that will work with you and hold it for you. Once the rifle arrives, get the S/N and put it on the appropriate form. Then, you send in the appropriate paperwork along with your $200 check and within 4-8 months, you should get a response back which will include you NFA tax stamp. If you are registering the firearm, you bring the paperwork to the gun store and they send it in, and then call you when they get it back from the BATFE. The rifle is registered in your name at that point.

If your CLEO won't sign off on it, you have two options. The first is to get an attorney who is familiar with NFA laws, and have them lobby your jurisdiction's law enforcement agency to give you the approval and sign-off. Some CLEOs may be against you owning one, but they will have a hard time saying "NO" if your attorney contacts the City Attorney or County Attorney and lays it down for them.
The other option is to start a revocable one party living trust, and assign the weapon to the trust. Then, apply for the NFA stamp on behalf of the trust. Again, you need to have the receiver for this. There is software available that helps you make a living trust, but be aware that some trusts may not be legal in your state, so you need to make sure it is legal. I know Quicken's trusts have been denied in several states, so do it wisely. LegalZoom.com stuff has been holding up nicely in courts nationwide, so consider looking at them for creating one.
A modified method is to get a trust done, and then have an attorney look it over to verify it's legitimate.
The safest method is to get an attorney to create one for you, because this way you know the trust will be legitimate.
Once you get all that taken care of, you submit your NFA paperwork with your trust documents and your $200 check. You don't need a CLEO to sign off, and you don't need fingerprint cards. The Trust route will take 4-6 months.


Here is a how-to of the trust method:
http://forums.officer.com/forums/sho...ht=nfa%20trust


I HIGHLY recommend that people attempt to register the firearm in their own name first. This eliminates any issues you could have with the legalities of a Trust. It's less to worry about when it comes to making things as legal as possible.

ALSO, you CANNOT assemble the weapon until you have the stamp in hand. If you do, you have just created an unregistered SBR.
Also, if you go Trust method, make sure you get the receiver engraved. If you want a good place for engraving, look around online for some places that do NFA engraving. I use Orion Arms here in Minnesota. They're inexpensive and relatively fast. They have an FFL, so it's completely legal. They do fantastic work.
http://www.orion-arms.com/gun-engrav...locations.html


*disclaimer* if you have any question about legality, contact an attorney. I am not one, so don't take anything I'm saying as the gospel.
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Old 04-20-2011, 08:14 AM   #27
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I've started to look at a new build, and I would like to do this one myself. Can anyone chime in on the difference between the different lower parts kits? They all include the same parts, but is there really a difference?

Daniel Defense
DPMS
RRA
Spikes Tactical

Regarding the trigger, I'm just looking for mil-spec.
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Old 04-20-2011, 10:35 AM   #28
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The only difference is the quality control that goes on in making sure the parts are in spec. That eliminates DPMS.
Everything else is fine. With the DD kit, you also get the Magpul trigger guard.
And good call on the mil spec trigger. Unless you're buying a trigger for a specific purpose like on an SPR or a target rifle, mil spec triggers are the best for durability.
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Old 04-24-2011, 02:46 PM   #29
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I've started to look at a new build, and I would like to do this one myself. Can anyone chime in on the difference between the different lower parts kits? They all include the same parts, but is there really a difference?

Daniel Defense
DPMS
RRA
Spikes Tactical

Regarding the trigger, I'm just looking for mil-spec.
For the most part LPKs are the same, but some have better rol pins than others. I'm a huge fan of Daniel Defense products and used one of their LPK on a build of mine and had some trouble with the bolt catch pin. Ended up using a RRA LPK for another build because I heard that their roll pins are a bit higher quality. It had a bit better fit to the pin and also it didn't deform like that of the DD. The RRA kit was much easier to use than the DD LPK in my opinion.

From now on RRA LPKs are all I will be using.
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Old 04-24-2011, 05:13 PM   #30
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Those bolt catch pins are always a bitch. I've had good experience with RRA kits too, but I put a DD kit on my brother's AR and that was a top notch kit.
Did you use a roll pin starter punch and a dimpled pin punch? What kind of lube?
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Old 04-25-2011, 07:38 AM   #31
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Thanks for the replies. I ended up ordering:

Daniel Defense LPK
Daniel Defense T2 Buffer
and then the standard stuff to finish it off (spring, mil-spec tube, ring, castle nut, wrench, etc.)

I ordered them from Palmetto State Armory. They had everything in stock and it was less expensive than Ranier.

I also went over to Harbor Freight and picked up these to aid the assembly. I probably didn't need them, but since it's my first build I figured that I may as well make my job easier, and I can certainly use them for future maintenance or builds. Plus I got to buy someself some new tools.

http://www.harborfreight.com/soft-fa...let-39528.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/spring-...punch-621.html
http://www.harborfreight.com/5-piece...set-93111.html
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Old 04-29-2011, 05:55 PM   #32
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Okay, I'll offer up another question for the masses that has been discussed at length on other forums: Mid-Length vs. Carbine for a non-SBR application.

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In all seriousness, I cannot find a compelling reason to choose one over the other for the average shooter.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:24 PM   #33
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From a technical standpoint, midlength is more reliable and the recoil is smoother. The recoil pulse is "longer" due to the longer distance the gas has to travel. This slows down the recoil giving better control. The difference is barely noticeable, but some people have reported that they can tell the difference. My PDW with the pistol gas system pops quickly. In contrast, my SPR with the rifle gas system has very little recoil in comparison.
Where the real benefit is with a midlength is with that longer gas travel. It is more in-sync with the timing that an AR was designed to have with a rifle length system. As a result, the midlength gas system is more reliable than a carbine or pistol length system. The timing of the bolt isn't thrown off as much by the increased bolt speeds (which are less than those speeds of the shorter systems).
For the typical shooter, which is someone that shoots maybe 250-500rds per year, they won't know the difference. The midlength is an advantage to the dedicated shooter, IMO.

Midlengths really shouldn't be used for SBRs below 14.5" barrels (which are pointless SBRs anyways). Just my thoughts.
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Old 04-29-2011, 10:59 PM   #34
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Okay, I'll offer up another question for the masses that has been discussed at length on other forums: Mid-Length vs. Carbine for a non-SBR application.

Go!



In all seriousness, I cannot find a compelling reason to choose one over the other for the average shooter.
I agree with Reedo for the most part on this one. An average shooter won't notice any disadvantage with a carbine.

I do notice that my midlengths do cycle smoother than my carbines.
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Old 05-06-2011, 08:07 AM   #35
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Thanks guys! I was going to build an upper to go with my new lower, but I think I'm just going to swap over to the new lower. The upper that I have really is perfect for me and has everything that I want.
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Old 05-06-2011, 11:47 AM   #36
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What would you guys recommend for a complete ar noob. Itll be used for fun at the range. Trying to keep it cheap as possible but still reliable and accurate...so if I would have to spend 1200 to get that much better of a rifle then for 800 I would. Hopefully will be able to purchase in the next few months to end of year (buying a pistol and really want a new trap shotgun)
Thanks for any help.

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Old 05-06-2011, 02:44 PM   #37
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For a basic setup under $1k, look into Del-Ton. They have good rifles. For a bit more, look into a BCM. However, there's a huge lead time right now with BCM rifles.
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Old 05-06-2011, 06:54 PM   #38
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What would you guys recommend for a complete ar noob. Itll be used for fun at the range. Trying to keep it cheap as possible but still reliable and accurate...so if I would have to spend 1200 to get that much better of a rifle then for 800 I would. Hopefully will be able to purchase in the next few months to end of year (buying a pistol and really want a new trap shotgun)
Thanks for any help.

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Daniel Defense XV
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Old 06-12-2011, 11:14 PM   #39
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I have some Lancer L5 Advanced WarFighter Mags (AWMs) on the way, and am also planning on getting a Troy BattleMag or two. I'm gonna do a polymer AR magazine comparison between the Pmag, TangoDown ARC, Lancer L5 AWM and Troy BattleMag.

Edit: I think I'll pick up a Tapco polymer mag too.
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Old 06-15-2011, 01:17 PM   #40
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Finally got it. One of the things I really like about this billet lower is that they tapped the hole for the bolt catch and replaced the roll pin with a threaded allen pin.
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