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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 05-08-2012, 04:06 AM   #581
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Thanks for your opinion and yes the m&p sport was in my radar and definitely I'm my price range at $699 but decided to go with delton instead as for my first I didn't want to get anything too high as I've done some research on the other brands like colts,armalite, stag arms, HK and ect..maybe looking to get one of them near September or so and when I do which would you recommended? Considering there are so many ARs in the market and.different manufacturers. Also your thoughts on direct impingement opposed to gas piston?

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Old 05-08-2012, 09:38 AM   #582
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:14 AM   #583
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It's still open, that's for sure. Not sure when it closes, but not sure you'd really be interested. The lower is catered to FL folks. It's going to have a FL state outline on one side and the FL flag engraved on the other. If you do want to be in the buy, spikes can send the lower to your local FFL out of state as far as I know.


Is there a MN group buy? I'm at work right now and all that stuff is blocked, otherwise I can check from home. I'm not in the market to build one right now but I'd buy a lower just to keep on hand for when I do build.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:18 AM   #584
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Thanks for your opinion and yes the m&p sport was in my radar and definitely I'm my price range at $699 but decided to go with delton instead as for my first I didn't want to get anything too high as I've done some research on the other brands like colts,armalite, stag arms, HK and ect..maybe looking to get one of them near September or so and when I do which would you recommended? Considering there are so many ARs in the market and.different manufacturers. Also your thoughts on direct impingement opposed to gas piston?

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That's requires a pretty lengthy answer and lots of research on your end, but I'll summarize it like this.

1). High end AR, you want a Colt, LWRC, Daniel Defense, LMT, HK, Noveske (someone else can jump in with others if they want). Stick to one of those and you'll be in pretty damn good shape.

2). DI v. GP is an argument that has been waged for a few years now. Ultimately, I think both have their advantages and their disadvantages. My Colt is DI and I love it; it's based on a technology that, for the most part, has worked for the better part of 50 years. That's not to say that I won't be buying a GP setup in the future. It's the new thing, but there have been reliability and overheating issues with those as well. They're supposed to run cleaner, particularly when using a can, but I have no first-hand experience.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:03 PM   #585
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On another note, I kinda followed in your footsteps Reedo and finally put the Geissele trigger in my lower. You went with the SD-C; I went with the SD-3G. My GOD is this thing light; I still can't believe it and I've even shot one before. I just forgot.

The 3G is going in my SBR lower. When my stamp comes through and I transfer the 16inch upper to the Spikes lower I have coming (or the Seekins or Larue), I'll drop an SD-C or probably more likely, an SD-E in it for precision work.

I can't wait to try this 3G out again though; I just need to find a place that will let me go crazy with it.
I know, right? I was surprised at the feel. I'm fairly certain the SD trigger bow legitimately reduces the perceived trigger weight. Different fulcrum or something like maybe? It's interesting. My experience with the SSA was good, but the SD-C felt lighter, even though it's the same technical pull weight. Almost too light for my taste for a combat trigger.

I am putting an ALG Combat Trigger into my 11.5", so if that pans out I will put one in this gun too and then put the SD-C into a DMR build. Maybe. We'll see. Like I said, I want some time on this trigger.
Now if it will only stock frickin' raining here so I can get out the damn range.

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Originally Posted by lvlikeWho View Post
Thanks for your opinion and yes the m&p sport was in my radar and definitely I'm my price range at $699 but decided to go with delton instead as for my first I didn't want to get anything too high as I've done some research on the other brands like colts,armalite, stag arms, HK and ect..maybe looking to get one of them near September or so and when I do which would you recommended? Considering there are so many ARs in the market and.different manufacturers. Also your thoughts on direct impingement opposed to gas piston?
1. Brands like BCM, Colt, HK, Noveske, Knight Arms, Daniel Defense, LWRC, LaRue Tactical, VLTOR, LMT and the like are top tier rifles. They command the highest price, but you're getting the best product for your money with those companies.
Companies like Rock River, S&W, Stag, Armalite, Bushmaster and DPMS are middle tier companies that give you mostly what you want, but there are sacrifices to be made in regards to options or quality. In re DPMS and Shrubmaster, they're junk from my experience. So are Remingtons.
Brands like Del-Ton, Palmetto State Armory, DSA and the like are bottom tier, and have the lowest cost. They also tend to have the lowest quality.

In terms of DI vs GP, it's like what david said. It's been discussed ad-nauseum. The DI system is ultra reliable in quality guns. The biggest beef people have is with the receiver and BCG getting dirty. Well, so be it. I don't clean my ARs to a squeaky finish, so it's not a huge deal. One of my rifles is sitting at 3k rounds since last cleaning, and it has had zero malfunctions because I use the proper lubricant every time.

If you go with a GP setup, you need to cough up the money for a quality rifle. There is a distinct advantage of the high end setups, since the GP technology is all proprietary and not milspec. The king of the GP rifles is the HK416/MR556A1. The LWRC M6 is another great purchase. POF-USA is a good company, but I'm on the fence about them since I saw one of their rifles go tits-up in training for no good reason.

Ultimately it comes down to this: buy quality, get quality.


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Is there a MN group buy? I'm at work right now and all that stuff is blocked, otherwise I can check from home. I'm not in the market to build one right now but I'd buy a lower just to keep on hand for when I do build.
If we had a group buy, I might buy one or two just to have on hand.
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Old 05-08-2012, 12:41 PM   #586
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Is there a MN group buy? I'm at work right now and all that stuff is blocked, otherwise I can check from home. I'm not in the market to build one right now but I'd buy a lower just to keep on hand for when I do build.
Didn't see one when I checked the Minnesota hometown forum. I think the only reason we are getting one, and that the prices are so great, is because Spikes is a FL company and was willing to help us out. So far, I think we have over 300 commitments for lowers and it keeps going up. I committed to 4 (2 for myself, 2 for a friend). That means I'll have those two and a Seekins/Larue/Noveske sometime this summer. No idea what I'm going to do with all of them yet though haha.

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I know, right? I was surprised at the feel. I'm fairly certain the SD trigger bow legitimately reduces the perceived trigger weight. Different fulcrum or something like maybe? It's interesting. My experience with the SSA was good, but the SD-C felt lighter, even though it's the same technical pull weight. Almost too light for my taste for a combat trigger.

I am putting an ALG Combat Trigger into my 11.5", so if that pans out I will put one in this gun too and then put the SD-C into a DMR build. Maybe. We'll see. Like I said, I want some time on this trigger.
Now if it will only stock frickin' raining here so I can get out the damn range.
I am absolutely convinced that the flat trigger design reduces perceived pull weight. It also doesn't seem to matter where on the trigger I am squeezing from, be it the bottom tip, the middle, or the top near the receiver entry point; they all feel really light and smooth.

I've been dry firing this thing a bit this morning. One thing I was a little worried about was that I wouldn't be able to make a precision shot with it because the pull and break are so light and quick. After playing around with it, I'm fairly convinced I can pull it off. I've had to completely adapt my finger to it though, willing myself to very very carefully and precisely squeeze it until break. Requires strict fundamentals as far as breathing, etc. are concerned. It actually might make me a better shot because it requires such attentiveness. I think I still prefer a 2-stage on a precision rifle though, or any one where I would be looking to make a precision shot.

Post up a mini-review of the ALG trigger when you throw it in the SBR. I'm always looking to be educated on what other products are out there and how they stack up against others.

As far as range time goes, I'm hoping to get some of that later this week or this weekend. I would have made the trek to the range today because I'm so stoked to try this out, but I have an exam tomorrow night and somehow, I would feel negligent of my studies if I did
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Old 05-08-2012, 01:00 PM   #587
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Didn't see one when I checked the Minnesota hometown forum. I think the only reason we are getting one, and that the prices are so great, is because Spikes is a FL company and was willing to help us out. So far, I think we have over 300 commitments for lowers and it keeps going up. I committed to 4 (2 for myself, 2 for a friend). That means I'll have those two and a Seekins/Larue/Noveske sometime this summer. No idea what I'm going to do with all of them yet though haha.
Thanks for checking. I'll try to go in there tonight and see if they'll let me get one minus the engraving. Or if it's not too obnoxious, I'll deal with the FL thing. Gives me some motivation to GTFO of Minnesota...
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:00 PM   #588
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Originally Posted by Reedo302 View Post
I know, right? I was surprised at the feel. I'm fairly certain the SD trigger bow legitimately reduces the perceived trigger weight. Different fulcrum or something like maybe? It's interesting. My experience with the SSA was good, but the SD-C felt lighter, even though it's the same technical pull weight. Almost too light for my taste for a combat trigger.

I am putting an ALG Combat Trigger into my 11.5", so if that pans out I will put one in this gun too and then put the SD-C into a DMR build. Maybe. We'll see. Like I said, I want some time on this trigger.
Now if it will only stock frickin' raining here so I can get out the damn range.
Very interested in triggers right now as im trying to decide what to go with in my SBR. I was leaning towards a geissele just not sure which one yet. A couple people on the local forum tried the ALG combat trigger and came back with not so positive reviews...just nothing special. Looking forward to reading what you think about it. Also looking forward to your range review david on the sd3g. Could have bought my upper this week and a can if my bmw didn't decide to need $2500 worth of maintenance work .
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Old 05-08-2012, 02:57 PM   #589
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Thanks for checking. I'll try to go in there tonight and see if they'll let me get one minus the engraving. Or if it's not too obnoxious, I'll deal with the FL thing. Gives me some motivation to GTFO of Minnesota...
Paradise here man :thumbs:

The FL logo won't be too obnoxious I don't think, especially if they get rid of the "FHTF" bs. I think they're doing away with the engraving on the right side as well so the only thing that would be on it would be the FL logo and a Spikes Tactical rollmark/engraving
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:49 PM   #590
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Paradise here man :thumbs:

The FL logo won't be too obnoxious I don't think, especially if they get rid of the "FHTF" bs. I think they're doing away with the engraving on the right side as well so the only thing that would be on it would be the FL logo and a Spikes Tactical rollmark/engraving
I thought that they were not using the Spikes logo at all? That group buy is confusing the hell out of me.
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Old 05-08-2012, 07:58 PM   #591
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I thought that they were not using the Spikes logo at all? That group buy is confusing the hell out of me.
What I mean is that its going to have to have "Spikes Tactical, Apopka, FL" on it, that's all.
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:56 PM   #592
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Very interested in triggers right now as im trying to decide what to go with in my SBR. I was leaning towards a geissele just not sure which one yet. A couple people on the local forum tried the ALG combat trigger and came back with not so positive reviews...just nothing special. Looking forward to reading what you think about it. Also looking forward to your range review david on the sd3g. Could have bought my upper this week and a can if my bmw didn't decide to need $2500 worth of maintenance work .
I think that peoples' expectations of the ALG triggers are not realistic, or at least not over-hyped.

I should probably preface this for those who aren't familiar with ALG triggers. ALG stands for Amy Lynn Geissele, who is Bill Geissele's wife. Bill Geissele being the owner of Geissele triggers. The triggers are made in the same shop in Pennsylvania as the Geissele triggers, and the triggers are tuned by Geissele.

The concept behind the ALG triggers is that they're like refined milspec triggers. They are meant to be used to replace milspec fire controls when you still want milspec type setup and quality, but just better feel. The best example I heard was with LE agency rifles.
It's my understanding that they have the same geometry, same take-up and travel and same reset. The difference is that it's a smoother pull and sear break, with slightly less pull weight. Milspec triggers break between 5-9lbs. The average pull from the triggers I've tested is around 7.5lbs for milspec. The ALG is designed to have 5.5lbs but still have a milspec feel.
What I think happened is that people got caught up with the Geissele name and thought they were getting a budget-priced SSA, and that's likely why they're not as impressed with it.

I think that it's probably the same situation as with the Haley Skimmer trigger, which wound up not being what people thought it was. It was "like a 1911" in that the trigger reset and overtravel was minimal, and it was distinctive sear break. People were instead expecting to actually have a 1911 trigger in their Glock, which is mechanically impossible. People just expected more than they should have.

Now, given that I haven't gotten my hands on one yet, this is obviously all supposition on my part. However, when talking to people online this seems like it may the case. Hopefully I'll know in the coming weeks.
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:15 PM   #593
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The couple reviews I saw on the local forum was more comparing it to the spikes battle trigger and was more disappointed in the fit and finish of the trigger too. Could have just gotten a crappy one that slipped through qc. Looking forward to your review though as I was thinking of grabbing one
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Old 05-08-2012, 09:28 PM   #594
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Could be, but I have a hard time believing that anything would leave the Geissele shop in poor condition. It's important to note that we're dealing with $45 and $65 triggers as opposed to $200-$240 triggers. There's bound to be some differences in quality of construction.
Were they commenting on the QMS or the ACT?
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Old 05-12-2012, 10:34 PM   #595
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So I grabbed one of those BCM Gunfighters; it's aweome, should have done it years ago.
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Old 05-13-2012, 12:30 AM   #596
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Yeah it is. Such a simple upgrade, but a big difference.
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Old 05-16-2012, 02:02 AM   #597
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Any opinions on Primary Weapons Systems? I'm thinking about getting something for recreational purpose, and a friend mentioned this brand.
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Old 05-16-2012, 03:59 AM   #598
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Any opinions on Primary Weapons Systems? I'm thinking about getting something for recreational purpose, and a friend mentioned this brand.
PWS makes excellent accessories, and their muzzle brakes work very well. When it comes to their rifles, the jury is out. I don't have any experience with them, but I have reservations about their long-stroke gas piston system. They tout it as being very reliable, like an AK, since AKs have long-stroke gas piston operating systems. However, the elimination of carrier tilt is due to the bolt carrier design at the rear, as well as the design of the buffer tube.

For those not aware of the difference, a long-stroke gas piston system is where the operating rod is connected to the bolt/bolt carrier group. When the weapon fires, the gas pushes against the op rod, which acts as a large piston. A short-stroke system is where the op rod is independent of the bolt carrier. Gas pushes a piston into the operating rod, which in turn pushes against the bolt carrier.
Long stroke systems are more simple, and easier to service and maintain. These are the kinds of systems you find in AKs, the M249 SAW and M240B machine guns. It's very reliable in those weapons, but those weapons have different receivers with different bolt designs. The receiver features a dedicated raceway with tracks to stabilize and guide the bolt carrier. With ARs, the carrier rides along the inside of the actual upper receiver, and is not stabilized by a track. Short stroke systems are much more similar to the dynamics of a direct impingement system, and therefore have more similar handling characteristics.

PWS also makes claims that they don't have any carrier bounce. Any quality GP rifle will have an auto-regulating gas block to prevent overpressure. LWRC, HK, Barrett and POF all have them, among others. Part of this is also due to the fact that the PWS bolt carrier is significantly heavier than a conventional bolt, since the op rod is attached.

If you're looking for a basic starter rifle, I would suggest starting with something more conventional. The PWS Mk1 series rifles are good quality, but they're a different dynamic than most ARs. I think your $1500 would be much better spent on basic DI rifle, like a Colt 6920 or 6940, or a BCM carbine. Start out with something more simple.

The so-called "benefits" of a gas piston system are trivial. The only real difference is when running suppressed, running a very short SBR, or for the ease of cleaning. If a GP system was desired, I would be more apt to choose LWRC, though HK would likely be my first choice for a GP rifle if they didn't cost so damn much.

Just my own opinion, though. YMMV
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:02 AM   #599
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I think I'm going to sell my Smith and Wesson M&P 15T. It's the 15T with the 10" Troy rail and front and rear Troy BUIS. I've added a Magpul MOE grip and Magpul MOE stock. There are about 2,000 rounds through it and it's exceptionally clean. I wouldn't sell it with an optic. Thoughts on the value?
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As for value I'd ask $900
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I don't know too much about them to be honest, but I'd did some quick research. It's one helluva nice gun.

I checked gunbroker and they are priced between $1000 and $1500 on there, but they aren't moving. I also ran a google search and several online retailers have them between $900 and $1000.

Yours is lightly used and in great shape with some improvements (totaling <$75).

I think you could price it and move it around $900. I think you could move it quickly at $800-825.

Apologies or bringing this back from the dead, but I've decided to sell just the upper. There is nothing at all wrong with the lower, so I'm just going to keep it. So, back to a pricing question on just the upper:

Smith and Wesson M&P15T
1/9 twist
Troy 10" quad rail
Troy front and rear BUIS
Chrome lined chamber and bore (this is the original model, not the newer one)
Semi-Auto BCG
Charging handle
2500 rounds

$600?

As an aside, does anyone have expericen with Centurian Arms rails? Thoughts?
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Old 05-25-2012, 08:36 AM   #600
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Apologies or bringing this back from the dead, but I've decided to sell just the upper. There is nothing at all wrong with the lower, so I'm just going to keep it. So, back to a pricing question on just the upper:

Smith and Wesson M&P15T
1/9 twist
Troy 10" quad rail
Troy front and rear BUIS
Chrome lined chamber and bore (this is the original model, not the newer one)
Semi-Auto BCG
Charging handle
2500 rounds

$600?

As an aside, does anyone have expericen with Centurian Arms rails? Thoughts?
Yeah $600 sounds about right to me, maybe a little more, but I think that's a price that will move it.

I have no insight on the rails though
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