The General AR Discussion Thread

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec

Was looking for a multi tool and came across these...seems very expensive for an AR multitool, but a cool idea.

http://www.weaponoutfitters.com/mult...multitool.html

Actually does look pretty darn sweet

Oh, and I have no idea who actually manufactures the parts. They could all came from the same place.

Originally Posted by Serbonze

Please tell me that your screen name is IHasCrabs?! If so, that's fucking hilarious!!!

Yup on arfcom too haha

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Originally Posted by david05111

Actually does look pretty darn sweet

It is just don't know if it's $120 sweet. Like $50 I would have ordered one already

Give it another two days. Your ADHD will kick in at it will be on your doorstep before you know it.

Originally Posted by Serbonze

Give it another two days. Your ADHD will kick in at it will be on your doorstep before you know it.

Eotech xps/exps will show up first, I'm going to give one a shot I looked at the multi tool a couple weeks ago and ran past it again today. I need to go through all my random crap and sell it then I'll have enough for an eotech and a AAC sdn6

If you have not ordered one already, get an EXPS. It sits 7mm higher and will allow for a 1/3 lower co-witness, rather than an absolute co-witness.

Originally Posted by Serbonze

If you have not ordered one already, get an EXPS. It sits 7mm higher and will allow for a 1/3 lower co-witness, rather than an absolute co-witness.

Haven't ordered yet, probably won't for a little while buti was leaning toward the exps. I wish they made the exps 2 in fde/tan

yeah I know. rattle can or cerakote it would be easy. Also my friend is going to start hydrodipping guns/parts. Soon as hes all setup im getting something dipped multicam, probably my seekins lower/upper

Originally Posted by Reedo302

Why are you wanting a 14.5" pinned barrel in lieu of a 16"?

Random question n the subject maybe you could add some insight too. I know your not a fan of 14.5 pinned barrels and running 14.5 mid length systems. Bcm/eag main rifle is a 14.5 pinned mid length. Did they ever explain the reasoning for that barrel/combo n any classes you took with them. I believe the larue/costa ar is the same set up too. Are there any advantages to these set ups?

Personally I would only run a 14.5 if I had an extra registered lower and didn't have to pin the muzzle device. It seems to be becoming a popular set up and I was just wondering why, like you said the 1-2" you save couldn't really make any real world difference.

I know that the BCM EAG rifle was built as a collaboration between Paul Buffoni and Pat Rogers. Per Pat, he looked at several build options and was contacted by gun companies like LWRC (who went to Jeff Gonzalez for a TRICON edition rifle) for an EAG Tactical rifle model. He wanted a rifle that was dead-nuts reliable, durable as all hell, and also affordable for the average student. Pat's clientele is very LE/GOV/MIL heavy, so the users are typically not too well funded. Going with LWRC would have been very cost prohibitive to many potential buyers. Pat went with BCM for this build because BCM could build a rifle with all of these requirements, and because Pat knew Paul to be a stand-up guy who you could trust with your life. That's how the rifle came about.
The decision for the midlength gas system was deliberately done because of the softer recoil impulse, as well as it being more reliable than a carbine gas system. Also, it allowed the FSP to be further forward, affording more rail space for accessories.
As far as the barrel selection, I have no idea why and he's never said anything specific about it, though I'm sure he'd tell me if I asked. I can surmise that it was done for two reasons.
First- It's a non-NFA 14.5" barrel, and his ballistics will be the exact same as a standard M4 rifle that military users would be shooting. This allows some cross compatibility for ballistic trajectory and so forth.
Second- I think it was partially a marketing decision designed to meet the requests of shooters/users. It's what shooters want, so that's what will sell. A way to look at this is to look at LWRC. LWRC fully admits that DI rifles are much easier to work with and produce, and they're more reliable due to all the "gremlins" being worked out of the system long ago. Piston ARs are newer technology and much of it is proprietary, so each company is on their own with their dick swinging in the breeze to figure out their own unique gremlins. However, LWRC produces piston rifles because that is what the consumer base wanted, and still continues to want. This is direct from someone high up in the company- they sell pistons as a marketing/sales decision, not because they believe it's superior to DI. Inasmuch, I'm sure the decision to do a pinned 14.5" was for marketing/sales reasons. Just my own theory, though.

It's not a bad product by any means, but it does make it quirky for ammunition selection and buffer selection. I mentioned earlier that you generally have to use a standard carbine buffer instead of the "H" buffer for them.

I generally think that pinned/welded 14.5" setups are pointless, but if you get a high quality, reliable rifle that was built with a dedicated purpose, it's reasonable. In the case of the BCM EAG carbine and the Costa PredatOBR, these are purpose-built rifles that come fully loaded and will never need any modification. As such, they are ideal setups and have a purpose. I think that the EAG rifle makes a little more sense since it uses the BFH barrel with is good for 40-50k rounds. Still, I'm being nitpicky and it really doesn't make a lot of difference. LaRues have to be returned to the factory for barrel replacement anyways, so it doesn't really matter. Doing work on the OBR, PredatAR and PredatOBR barrels and rails is difficult, so aside from the need to change the muzzle device, it's not a huge issue.
Aside from those two rifles, I see no other rifle where it really is feasible to go with a 14.5" pinned vs a 16". Just my $0.02 though.

You lose a negligible amount of weight, and your rifle is only going to be 1-1.5" shorter. Whoopdy-doo.
In my mind, this pinned 14.5" craze is just a fad. There is no significant benefit to it as far as I can tell. People just want it because it's the latest thing to get. I think a lot of buyers may think that it's like getting a 14.5" NFA barrel but without the hassle, so it must be cool since it's a restricted item otherwise. Case in point- people want the Colt LE6920 instead of the SP6920 because the LE6920 has the marked receiver for LE/GOV only. Exact same rifle, but a little hint of "restricted" and it's all of a sudden better than sliced bread and pockets on jeans.

Reedo thanks for taking the time to write that up. Makes sense I would also guess that most people who buy the eag or larue rifle wouldn't be running cheap crap ammo the same as somebody who maybe bought a $700 14.5 pinned ar. But building what customers want makes sense to me. I figured that those companies would only build something that was dead nuts reliable that's why I thought they would go with 16" first. Pat also doesn't seem to get caught up in any fads or bs at least judging by the way he talks on lightfighter. But I'm also sure he has more 14.5/16" ars then I'll ever be able to build.

Originally Posted by Adam@Euro-Spec

Reedo thanks for taking the time to write that up. Makes sense I would also guess that most people who buy the eag or larue rifle wouldn't be running cheap crap ammo the same as somebody who maybe bought a $700 14.5 pinned ar. But building what customers want makes sense to me. I figured that those companies would only build something that was dead nuts reliable that's why I thought they would go with 16" first. Pat also doesn't seem to get caught up in any fads or bs at least judging by the way he talks on lightfighter. But I'm also sure he has more 14.5/16" ars then I'll ever be able to build.

What is interesting about LaRue is that they all use SS barrels. So if you are buying the 14.5" pinned version you are having to send it back for a new barrel twice as often as a standard barrell. Food for thought for all those guys spending $2,900 on the Costa edition.

Having a pinned muzzle device is what drives me crazy. For example after reedo took the low light class he decided the battle comp was a no go anymore. An easy job for him to swap could have been a major pita. When i decide on a can I'm going to have to replace all my muzzle devices. That would get expensive if they were pinned

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I understand why LaRue uses SS LW-50 barrels for their OBR barrels. PredatAR and Stealth models should be CHF steel, and it baffles me why they stuck with SS all this time. It really kills your service life of the barrel.
However, there are a lot of people who won't get to 10k rounds, so it's not something to likely be a problem anyways for a lot of people.

Adam- that's exactly it. If you want or need to change muzzle devices, you can't do it easily. It's one of those things that is just annoying to deal with if you want to change anything.

Anybody seen/heard real world experience with nib bcg or seen them run in class? I have one but i don't notice it running different then my regular bcm bcg. Is there an advantage with high
Round count days or anything? Is it an advantage or just a solution for a problem that doesn't exist. What about cerakoting the bcg? This is extending again from a local forum thread
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I've heard lots of stuff both positive and negative, but I have no personal experience with any NiB BCGs. Everything I see makes me believe that it's arbitrary. I have never seen anything definitive to show that a NiB BCG is worth the additional $100, unless you like the cosmetic look of it.

Originally Posted by Reedo302

I've heard lots of stuff both positive and negative, but I have no personal experience with any NiB BCGs. Everything I see makes me believe that it's arbitrary. I have never seen anything definitive to show that a NiB BCG is worth the additional $100, unless you like the cosmetic look of it.

Well if you ever want to review one or try it out, I'll have 2(spikes and a WMD) I can ship you one if you want and you can send it back whenever you've abused it enough.

I have no experience with them either. I guess I don't see the extra money worth the investment though, since the big deal seems to be that they clean up easier.