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Lighting Forum
Angel Eyes, DDEs, lighted rings, Clear Turn Signals, LEDs, Xenon, HID, or Bi-Xenon. If it lights up and you want to discuss it, post here!

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Old 12-25-2011, 06:50 PM   #81
sam123
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I have a friend who has the OEM halogen headlights. He wants projector headlights, but mainly for the looks. If he is okay with the sub-par light output of the p46 headlights do you think it would be a reasonable investment to just go with them?
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Old 12-26-2011, 12:44 AM   #82
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I bought my M3 a year and a half ago, and it had Depo P46 projectors in them. I refused to drive the car at night because the output was so terrible, and the pattern was so weak.

I promptly took them out, and had the TFX conversion done by lightwerks. It is well worth the money and time. I could not be happier.
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Old 12-26-2011, 01:49 PM   #83
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I have a friend who has the OEM halogen headlights. He wants projector headlights, but mainly for the looks. If he is okay with the sub-par light output of the p46 headlights do you think it would be a reasonable investment to just go with them?
Then tell him to never drive at night, ever.
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Old 12-27-2011, 11:00 PM   #84
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People keep ragging on the P46s. I had them for a year and drove in all kinds of weather without any issues. Yes, the pattern is not ideal but you can still see with them. The mini H1 conversion is quite simple and probably cheaper than the p46 set up so would recommend going that route if you want the cheapest and easiest route. But any HID kit will give more output over a halogen housing. Regardless of what anyone says. I have first hand experience with halogen, P46 and FX-R's.

Halogen < P46 < FX-R
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:29 PM   #85
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True, the HID kits will give you more light, but it won't put that light anywhere useful.

Take your first hand experience and shove it.
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Old 12-30-2011, 02:47 PM   #86
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Just because you wanna be a jack ass doesn't mean I'm wrong. You can aim the projectors just fine. The cut off isn't going to look pretty. But you can definitely aim it. Just a matter of opinion. You didn't like it. And in the end I decided I could do better as far as lighting. But for people who would rather go a cheap route that is already pre-assembled its not the worst you can do.
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Old 01-04-2012, 10:38 AM   #87
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Actually it pretty much is the worst you can do. It might suffice in bigger cities with abundant street lighting, but for those who actually need headlights, the p46s are a terrible solution.
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Old 01-21-2012, 09:39 PM   #88
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I live in fairly rural Washington and I can see without street lights perfectly fine. You are being a jack ass, if it works it works. You don't need the best lights out there and don't need to see completely down the road. People have been driving with less output just fine for decades. The P46 work
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Old 01-21-2012, 10:40 PM   #89
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umnitza has the p46 and they can retrofit the fx-r into them so when u get them everything is already assembled. its a win win !
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:07 PM   #90
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I live in fairly rural Washington and I can see without street lights perfectly fine. You are being a jack ass, if it works it works. You don't need the best lights out there and don't need to see completely down the road. People have been driving with less output just fine for decades. The P46 work
If you feel that way, then you may as well stick with halogens. If you actually care about lighting, there are much better products than the P46s for less money. If making a simple statement (being that P46s are about as crappy as it gets for lighting), which can be verfied by objective measurements, makes me a jackass, then I'm a jackass. What do I care?

I really hate that arguments that say something to the effect of "people have been doing just fine without so and so innovation for ages" - Well guess what: People were doing just fine without electricity, automobiles, or modern medicine for centuries. Does that mean we should just give all that up?
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:10 PM   #91
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Such as? Cause I'm actually in the process of considering Umnitza's all in one P46's with Fx-r upgrade and angel eyes.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:24 PM   #92
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Such as? Cause I'm actually in the process of considering Umnitza's all in one P46's with Fx-r upgrade and angel eyes.
Buying the FX-Rs separately would be cheaper and give you better results. I've seen the output shots of Umnitza's so-called "FX-Rs"; something's not right with them. The Retrofit Source's FX-R 1.1s are pretty good. I personally prefer OEM FX35/45 projectors as well as the G37 Coupe projectors. The RX330 projectors mentioned in this thread are also quite good (but not bi-xenon). The Morimoto Mini H1s are a popular option for those who want an easy retrofit, and their lighting pattern is also very good (especially compared to Umnitza's products). I know you can get a complete FX-R kit from TRS with everything you need for a little over $300. The Morimoto Mini kit is $270 (again with everything - bulbs, ballasts, projectors, shrouds, harness).

I guess angel eyes might add to the cost, but... take it from someone who has them: They look better in photos than they do in person. In person the gaps are very apparent, the LEDs have a slight flicker, and they're excessively bright (washes out the rest of the headlight). I have Orion V2s fwiw. I'm probably going to get rid of mine soon
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:27 PM   #93
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Thanks for the info.
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:41 PM   #94
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Thanks for the info.
TRS Australian Group Buy?
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Old 01-21-2012, 11:54 PM   #95
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Lightwerkz will even trim the shrouds for you to make it even easier. They are a recommended TRS installer. The FX-R you need to do a lot of trimming of your headlight bowls. The Mini H1s don't require any and Lightwerkz says the output is pretty close to the FX-R. If you do the Mini H1 you can easily go back to halogen.

Shoot them an email or call. They patiently answered all my questions.

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Old 01-22-2012, 02:55 AM   #96
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If you feel that way, then you may as well stick with halogens. If you actually care about lighting, there are much better products than the P46s for less money. If making a simple statement (being that P46s are about as crappy as it gets for lighting), which can be verfied by objective measurements, makes me a jackass, then I'm a jackass. What do I care?

I really hate that arguments that say something to the effect of "people have been doing just fine without so and so innovation for ages" - Well guess what: People were doing just fine without electricity, automobiles, or modern medicine for centuries. Does that mean we should just give all that up?
First, explain to me why you need to see absolutely everything around you? I see plenty far down the road with my p46 with some ****ty 8000k bulbs and they are definitely better than my halogens were, don't try to tell me they aren't. I live in an area where there are literally hundred of deer(we're known for it) and I haven't ever had a close encounter. YOU DON'T NEED A PERFECT CUT OFF. Second, what products are you talking about? I'm sorry I don't want to waste time retrofitting some stupid projector into some headlight housing that already has one that works fine. They work better than halogen.

"Well guess what: People were doing just fine without electricity, automobiles, or modern medicine for centuries. Does that mean we should just give all that up?" --- That's a fallacy. Completely unrelated and we need those things in a different way then perfect light cut off. I SEE FINE. My argument is it's not necessary or even beneficial to have the best lights. Unless you have down syndrome you'll have ample time to react to something in the middle of the road or where you're going.
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Old 01-22-2012, 03:00 AM   #97
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Honestly, what do you think the outcome of buying P46's are? I can't actually understand why people on this thread think its a big deal. Get you're head out of your ass and quit being snooty
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Old 01-22-2012, 10:43 AM   #98
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I was going to buy P46s with the FX-R upgrade until doing some research. For a lot less money I could put the Mini H1 in my halogens. I can go dual projectors with the H1s for about the same price as the upgraded P46s.

I have nothing against the P46s with the FX-R upgrade. You might not think you need the perfect cutoff, but there are people like me that have to wear sunglasses until it is dark because of an eye injury. Mis-aimed high powered HIDs just about blind me. If you are set on the P46s, then do it. Just think of the other people coming at you just as much as yourself and spend some time aiming them properly.
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Old 01-22-2012, 12:32 PM   #99
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First, explain to me why you need to see absolutely everything around you? I see plenty far down the road with my p46 with some ****ty 8000k bulbs and they are definitely better than my halogens were, don't try to tell me they aren't. I live in an area where there are literally hundred of deer(we're known for it) and I haven't ever had a close encounter. YOU DON'T NEED A PERFECT CUT OFF. Second, what products are you talking about? I'm sorry I don't want to waste time retrofitting some stupid projector into some headlight housing that already has one that works fine. They work better than halogen.

"Well guess what: People were doing just fine without electricity, automobiles, or modern medicine for centuries. Does that mean we should just give all that up?" --- That's a fallacy. Completely unrelated and we need those things in a different way then perfect light cut off. I SEE FINE. My argument is it's not necessary or even beneficial to have the best lights. Unless you have down syndrome you'll have ample time to react to something in the middle of the road or where you're going.
Who ever said anything about a perfect cutoff? I personally prefer a slightly softer cutoff. The P46 sorely lack when it comes to the distribution of light. 8000K bulbs are downright dangerous - proven to be dimmer than halogens, and the majority of the emitted light is blue, which is known to be one of the colors the human eye does very poorly with.

Just because you have managed with poor lights doesn't mean that there isn't a situation where they wouldn't help. Let's take antibiotics for example, there have been plenty of people who went through life without getting serious bacterial infections and lived long lives. But there are others who weren't as lucky and either died or had limbs amputated. Likewise, just because you have not been in a situation where better lighting may have been required, does not mean such situations don't exist, and does not mean other people have not benefitted from improved lighting. You are not the only one who lives in a rural area with poor street lighting. Unless you can show me a study that shows there's no safety improvement with better lights, your experiences are meaningless to me.

Another big difference is the eye fatigue. I used to drive a 330i with halogens. The lights were adequate, never got into an accident, generally spotted deer from far enough to avoid them. Eventually I retrofitted OEM HIDs. By far the biggest difference was that I no longer had to strain to focus on my path. After a long drive, I didn't feel so exhausted. I was able to travel longer distances and stay alert. So just because I might be able to see with shitty headlights, it does t mean that good headlights carry no benefit

And your P46s are not better than halogens. You may subjectively feel they are, but that is most likely an attempt to justify a bad purchase to yourself. And ultimately, P46s are not approved for HID bulbs. By US regulations, HID bulbs may only be D1, D2, D3, or D4 (S or R). P46 projectors are only approved for use with halogen H7 bulbs. As such, the optics are only designed for H7 bulbs. You're simply making a crappy projector perform even worse by using a bulb which emits light from a different focus

This retrofit is extremely easy. Still run into a legality issue because the bulbs are H1, but at least the projector actually illuminates the road properly. Cheaper than the P46, better quality, and barely any extra work
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Old 01-22-2012, 04:24 PM   #100
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For those of you thinking about buying the Umnitza P46 with FX-R retrofit, please reconsider or at least ask them for HEAVY documentation on the process they use to retrofit the projectors into the P46 headlights.

Here are untouched pictures from Umnitza themselves:






To the seemingly incompetent person who keeps replying saying that people who care about lighting are jackasses, well, shut up. Why do you contribute to your own self humiliation? Show me an isolux diagram of your P46 headlights with 8000K HID bulbs. Show me with data and scientific measurements that your cheap knockoff parts are illuminating at anywhere near OEM level. Honestly, I can't provide that data, but at least I can take comfort in knowing that Hella, Koito, Bosch, AL, Philips, Osram, etc have done all of that for me when designing their proper HID equipment. Can Depo provide this information?
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