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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 10-28-2015, 07:16 AM   #1
daniel_f.
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E85 at MS43?!

Hello guys,

as i know at least one person who would be super excited to get this going, iīd like to start a topic on E85 using the MS43.

I know there are fancy sensors out there that could be used to determine the amount of E85 in the fual tank and i know there are ways to do it by software analysis. Both ways are currently not possible to implement, so i was thinking of faking a bit.

What may be happening if we simply raise the limits of adaptation of the fueling so it would adopt for the E85 content?

As E85 has around 2/3 of the lower heating value of pure gasoline, you need around 1/3 more fuel flow when using pure E85. There are several limits set in the DME when to raise what flag so the driver gets warned theres probably a problem with the fuel or air supply.

But: These limits could easily be tweaked.

From earlier experience doing my diploma thesis i know the biggest hurdle usng E85 is cold engine start and i currently donīt know if the adaptations are used on a cold engine start or not, but this could be investigated.
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Old 10-28-2015, 12:20 PM   #2
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The a/f isn't really the problem, it's the timing. When turbocharged with gas your limited by knock, with e85 for the most part your not. If you can only change the a/f you would still be limited to a timing map based on gas which would defeat the purpose of running e85
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Old 10-28-2015, 02:13 PM   #3
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So we need to rule out the different ignition maps first?
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Old 10-30-2015, 02:53 AM   #4
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i tryed E85 on stock ms43 using wideband. I raised fuel delivery and pressure about 5 bar, but it wasn't enough to get the propper mixture. First i would think need to change fuel fuel injectors then play with tune. On stock M54B30 i think is 270 cc/min (3bar)..
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Old 10-30-2015, 05:58 AM   #5
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I was running e85 for about 3 years on an completely stock 330i. Just using a Piggiback that raises the injection time, based on reading the fuel trim values via OBD. So this is probably the same as rising the the adaption limits...

The stock fuel system works up to 5500 rpm at full load (depending on weather).

But to make a flexfuel vehicle that uses the full potential of E85 you need different ignition maps.
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Old 10-30-2015, 07:23 AM   #6
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There are quite some ignition maps run at MS43, so its basically messing with how the DME decides which map to use.
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Old 10-30-2015, 12:32 PM   #7
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Aside from obvious tuning required on ignition maps, Wouldn't this also require modifications to the fueling system? (Injectors, Fuel lines, fuel pump)
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Old 11-01-2015, 11:38 AM   #8
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Yes, you need to upgrade your fuel system. You can use e39 530i fuel filter + m3 5 Bar fuel pressure regulator. Or you use bigger injectors, this would be the smarter but more expensive way.
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Old 11-01-2015, 09:39 PM   #9
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Maybe retune the 98roz map to suit E85?

I noticed that there are 2 different fuel maps on the MS42 for different fuels:

KF_TI_TKW2_VANOS_TL_BK1
KF_TI_TKW2_VANOS_TL_BK2

There should be similar on the MS43.

Tune the 98roz matching one to E85

Of course the fueling needs to be upgraded as well.
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Old 02-01-2016, 07:13 PM   #10
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You need a way to change the fuel and ignition relative to the amount of ethanol in the fuel. It will change so quickly, that changing the fuel trim adaptation will lead to a very rock table, and it won't be able to change fast enough. As said, you also need to add ignition to gain any benefits from the fuel.

You need about 1.5x the amount of fuel, so bigger injectors, and fuel pump are often required.

If you had a table switch, or always had the laptop, you could add the fuel and ignition required to directly swap to E85. Before flex fuel sensors,
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Old 03-23-2016, 01:26 PM   #11
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So, add a flex fuel sensor and fuel system upgrades. Adjust maps in the DME for corn juice content from flex fuel sensor. Done?
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:26 PM   #12
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E85 at MS43?!

Flex fuel sensors may work in the future. It is my understanding the tuning is moving over to RomRaider for more options. I plan on running e85, and have an upgraded fuel system with no flex fuel sensor yet, and am willing and able to be a Guinea pig for anything you guys want to try.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:40 PM   #13
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I as well. The corn juice is what I would like to explore next. Just have to figure out how to get my car to drink it properly.
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Old 03-24-2016, 07:55 PM   #14
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For hardware there are many opinions but I run a k&n 25 micron steel mesh filter, Fuelab mini regulator, and Walbro 450lph e85 friendly pump. That will be overkill for a NA car however.
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Old 03-25-2016, 12:40 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pole position View Post
Flex fuel sensors may work in the future. It is my understanding the tuning is moving over to RomRaider for more options. I plan on running e85, and have an upgraded fuel system with no flex fuel sensor yet, and am willing and able to be a Guinea pig for anything you guys want to try.
We need a spare 5V AD input for the flex fuel sensor, so will take some time to get it running.
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Old 03-26-2016, 11:40 AM   #16
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If you were going for broke with E85, you could build the motor up to 12:1
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Old 03-26-2016, 03:26 PM   #17
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does the pedal position sensor have extra potentiometers that act as fail safes? re-purpose the redundant one for the the analog input Daniel.

or wouldn't injectors that are 1/3 bigger be a "quick and dirty" way to get it done? there is still the thing about modifying the ignition maps and whatnot but this is beyond my knowledge. im just making suggestions

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Old 03-31-2016, 06:02 AM   #18
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E85 is beneficial if your engine has forced induction or very high compression. We've tested E85 extensively and it makes right about the same amount of power as E5/E10. It can make a little bit more (4-5hp) in certain circumstances but for the most part it's a wash.
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Old 03-31-2016, 09:30 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by e90Unicorn View Post
or wouldn't injectors that are 1/3 bigger be a "quick and dirty" way to get it done? there is still the thing about modifying the ignition maps and whatnot but this is beyond my knowledge. im just making suggestions
If you have different expectations of "Working", it will run like the back end of a two legged dog.
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Old 03-31-2016, 06:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SoloII///M View Post
E85 is beneficial if your engine has forced induction or very high compression. We've tested E85 extensively and it makes right about the same amount of power as E5/E10. It can make a little bit more (4-5hp) in certain circumstances but for the most part it's a wash.
from what I've seen its about 4% more power, and you see a little more midrange gains if the motor is knock limited
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