M54 Oil Pump solution

Very nice work and mod greg! :d

Wow, I didn't realize it could break that bad. I'm hoping if this ever does happen the nut just shears or falls off and I can still save the engine. I'll be shifting at 6200 for the time being.

New issue I just discovered. Good info in the thread.

I dont track the car, but Im pretty spirited in the street.

It seems hanging out around 6K for too long can cause this problem. I find myself often transient in this RPM range, but never for too long.

For someone who drives the car fairly hard in the street, (car is stock no SC or anything), at what mileage might I expect possible oil pump failure - how long do these oil pumps last and is it wise to replace as preventive maintenance at some mileage milestone?

Originally Posted by OrientBlau

New issue I just discovered. Good info in the thread.

I dont track the car, but Im pretty spirited in the street.

It seems hanging out around 6K for too long can cause this problem. I find myself often transient in this RPM range, but never for too long.

For someone who drives the car fairly hard in the street, (car is stock no SC or anything), at what mileage might I expect possible oil pump failure - how long do these oil pumps last and is it wise to replace as preventive maintenance at some mileage milestone?

on the previous page, mrshelley provides the clearest, most realistic answer around, IMO.

Originally Posted by McSpeed

on the previous page, mrshelley provides the clearest, most realistic answer around, IMO.

No doubt. Its a very informative post.

But is the oil pump in general something that is rated for 200K+ miles or wouldit be wise to swap it out much earlier as preventive. The last thing I want is a starved engine.

Originally Posted by OrientBlau

No doubt. Its a very informative post.

But is the oil pump in general something that is rated for 200K+ miles or wouldit be wise to swap it out much earlier as preventive. The last thing I want is a starved engine.

The oil pump issue described in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with mileage. You could have taken a car right off the assembly line and run it around an oval track at a steady 6500 rpm for a little while and backed the oil pump nut off. The issue is crank vibrations and keeping the engine speed up long enough for the harmonics to work their magic. A sprint to red line here and there is extremely unlikely to vibrate the nut off the pump shaft and as long as you can keep the nut in place and thus the sprocket on the shaft, the oil pump should easily last the life of the car. In short, a street driven car is unlikely to ever experience an oil pump problem.

As McSpeed has pointed out, mrshelley offers sage advice on this subject.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

The oil pump issue described in this thread has absolutely nothing to do with mileage. You could have taken a car right off the assembly line and run it around an oval track at a steady 6500 rpm for a little while and backed the oil pump nut off. The issue is crank vibrations and keeping the engine speed up long enough for the harmonics to work their magic. A sprint to red line here and there is extremely unlikely to vibrate the nut off the pump shaft and as long as you can keep the nut in place and thus the sprocket on the shaft, the oil pump should easily last the life of the car. In short, a street driven car is unlikely to ever experience an oil pump problem.

As McSpeed has pointed out, mrshelley offers sage advice on this subject.

As I stated earlier, I understand that the issue being discussed involves hanging out at 6K for too long and too often.

I am more concerned with the life of the oil pump under normal operating conditions. However, as I said, I drive the car fairly hard on the street and see 6K often. Believe it or not, my car has less than 60K on it and I have had to change both pads and rotors FOUR times do to the aggressive way I drive. Rotors had severe lips too. This all factors in with my possibly abusing the oil pump. I have also had the red oil lamp come on and flicker on many occasions after driving it hard. Im wondering if maybe I have some issues with the oil pump. I am wondering if these pumps can last 200K+ of this type of driving. Otherwise, I wouldnt mind replacing it at some point.

Yes, I already acknowleged what mrshelley pointed it. Thanks for mentioning it again, though!

Originally Posted by OrientBlau

Yes, I already acknowleged what mrshelley pointed it.

That's as definitive an answer as you're ever going to get, there are no absolutes here. The general consensus seems to be that street driven cars, or even cars that see occasional light track duty, should not expect to have problems. However, you're going to have to make your own assessment of the level of risk you feel your driving style creates as well as determine what your tolerance for this level of risk might be.

Originally Posted by OrientBlau

I am more concerned with the life of the oil pump under normal operating conditions...I have also had the red oil lamp come on and flicker on many occasions after driving it hard.

No matter how aggressively you drive, under street conditions with stock[ish] power, I'd say the oil pump is going to last and last, as it is literally bathed in oil. Like TxZHP04 is saying, pump malfunction is a matter of prolonged revving above 6k.

If the oil level light is flashing, it could is probably from oil sloshing to one side of the pan due to cornering forces. Not good really since it can mean the pump might suck air and fail to maintain oil pressure. That's why they make oil pan baffles. On the track people usually address this with either a baffle and/or overfilling the oil by a quart.

Originally Posted by McSpeed

If the oil level light is flashing, it could is probably from oil sloshing to one side of the pan due to cornering forces. Not good really since it can mean the pump might suck air and fail to maintain oil pressure. That's why they make oil pan baffles. On the track people usually address this with either a baffle and/or overfilling the oil by a quart.

The red oil lamp flickers once Im in idle (slow traffic, red light) and low RPM without load, after pushing it hard. If I bring the idle up, move gear into N or P it disappears. One I shift back into D it begins to flicker again. The dealer coulkdnt find any problems and they just repalced the oil sender to placate me. Still happened after the replacement. Ive owned the carsicne new and it only began around 35K and I currently have 60K. I also keep the oil to the top notch as well.

Losing the engine will be a nightmare. Thats why Ive thogut maybe I need to replace the pump preemptively. Was wondering if others had premature oil pump failure who didnt track the car.

My 330 nut backed off and ruined the engine at 47,500 miles. I had done two, maybe three AutoXs and no track days with the car. Stock flywheel/clutch. Only power mods were a Dinan intake and exhaust.

Not common, but it can happen without track time. I liked to take the car to redline but don't remember hanging out there.

Tim

Originally Posted by tim330i

My 330 nut backed off and ruined the engine at 47,500 miles. I had done two, maybe three AutoXs and no track days with the car. Stock flywheel/clutch. Only power mods were a Dinan intake and exhaust.

Not common, but it can happen without track time. I liked to take the car to redline but don't remember hanging out there.

Tim

This is the type of story Im worried about.

I push this car really really hard at times and would not mind having the oil pump replaced preemptively.


Is it possible to determine whether the nut is close to being compromised?


Has anyone else had to have their oil pump replaced?

Is losing the oil pump GAME OVER, or if I shut down in time will I able to salvage it.

Yikes.

Originally Posted by OrientBlau

This is the type of story Im worried about.

I push this car really really hard at times and would not mind having the oil pump replaced preemptively.


Is it possible to determine whether the nut is close to being compromised?


Has anyone else had to have their oil pump replaced?

Is losing the oil pump GAME OVER, or if I shut down in time will I able to salvage it.

Yikes.

You notice Tim said he had done 2-3 auto-x sessions. Auto-x'ing tends to keep the revs up for extended intervals unlike revving to red line and then upshifting.

The only way to tell if the nut is backing off is to drop the oil pan. And even if the nut is snug today, that doesn't mean that 20 seconds near red line tomorrow won't cause it to fall off the sprocket. If you cut the engine as soon as your oil pressure light comes on, you're probably fine. The problem comes when you don't notice the light, or in your case, don't know whether to trust the light.

If it would buy you peace of mind and you have the spare cash, just upgrade the pump and add an oil pan baffle. Unless you plan on upgrading to the pump described in this thread though, there is aboslutely no point in replacing the pump as the pump itself doesn't fail (the sprocket simply comes off).

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

You notice Tim said he had done 2-3 auto-x sessions. Auto-x'ing tends to keep the revs up for extended intervals unlike revving to red line and then upshifting.

The only way to tell if the nut is backing off is to drop the oil pan. And even if the nut is snug today, that doesn't mean that 20 seconds near red line tomorrow won't cause it to fall off the sprocket. If you cut the engine as soon as your oil pressure light comes on, you're probably fine. The problem comes when you don't notice the light, or in your case, don't know whether to trust the light.

If it would buy you peace of mind and you have the spare cash, just upgrade the pump and add an oil pan baffle. Unless you plan on upgrading to the pump described in this thread though, there is aboslutely no point in replacing the pump as the pump itself doesn't fail (the sprocket simply comes off).

Im gonna leave it in Gods hands!

I got to visit Metric Mechanic 3 years ago. I asked them about this oil pump nut issue. They were not aware of the bad harmonics issue but mentioned that the nut will come right off if you spin the engine backwards. MM said this every BMW engine is like this.

But I would 100% go with MrShelley's assessment...how can you not trust a guy who can tell you how long your engine will run without oil

Originally Posted by tim330i

My 330 nut backed off and ruined the engine at 47,500 miles. I had done two, maybe three AutoXs and no track days with the car. Stock flywheel/clutch. Only power mods were a Dinan intake and exhaust.

Not common, but it can happen without track time. I liked to take the car to redline but don't remember hanging out there.

Hadn't seen this thread before: http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=179608

So far I've only heard of this happening on '01's [stock, street cars anyway]. Tim's was another '01

OrientBlau, i have the same issue except i get the yellow light but not necessarily after spirited driving.
i always check my oil in my ride as well as my truck since it(truck)has a bad rear main seal.
my oil light problem arose after an indy tech put royal purple in. dealer replaced oil sensor under cpo but the problem is back but not as bad as it was. i get the yellow only after i shut it down; before i was getting it while driving. only yellow, never red.

ok i read every post descriptively in this thread and all very good inforamtion.. i do very spirited driving and realize that at any given time the nut can wiggle itself loose and only down hill from there. my question is if the stock nut can come off at any time does the vac solution create a median between stock and the upgraded oil pump nut solution in this thread? would it give you better peace of mind than haveing the stock nut in?
please dont tell me mrshellys answer was the most diffinitive answer you can find because i can realize that..


lets say you did no spirited driving would the vac solution be a upgrade and make the nut more durable or last longer?

Originally Posted by steven747

i do very spirited driving and realize that at any given time the nut can wiggle itself loose...

IMO: That's a big exaggeration^; stick with mrshelley's guideline. Tim's was an isolated incident (or maybe 01's are somehow extra vulnerable). I redlined my ZHP often and even after a few thousand miles turboed the nut was tight as hell. I was at around 80K when I replaced the pump. AggieE46's OPN wasn't going anywhere either when he checked.

Originally Posted by steven747

does the vac solution create a median between stock and the upgraded oil pump nut solution in this thread? would it give you better peace of mind than haveing the stock nut in?

I wouldn't consider the VAC pump at all given that, despite the hype on the VAC site,:

Originally Posted by PEI330Ci

I have also heard from numerous other people that have installed this kit, on M54s, M52s, and S52s, and have had oil pump failures. It may allow the oil pump to last a little bit longer than the OEM piece, but eventually it fails.

I'd say if you're putting in the not inconsiderable effort to get to the pump, you might as well do it right.

As if you guys are worried enough, wait until someone breaks a valve spring retainer.