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Money Matters
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:26 PM   #1
FloridaE46
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Silver or Silver ETF?

Thoughts?
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:22 PM   #2
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You need to take into consideration transaction costs and liquidity.
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Old 03-11-2011, 02:06 AM   #3
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Bullion.
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Old 03-11-2011, 09:39 AM   #4
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Buy the bullion, silver eagles.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:22 AM   #5
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Slv
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Old 03-12-2011, 10:42 AM   #6
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Thoughts?
The girl on the left in your sig has been snatching the sucker away from the girl on the right for over a year now.

Someone needs to sit down with the girl on the right and tell her she 'ain't gonna get that sucker'. Seriously.
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Old 03-24-2011, 03:16 AM   #7
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Buy bullion.

ETFs are for...

1)Suckers
2)People who like paying taxes.

Stay the HELL away from SLV.
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Old 03-24-2011, 11:50 AM   #8
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Buy bullion.

ETFs are for...

1)Suckers
2)People who like paying taxes.

Stay the HELL away from SLV.
Bullion is for...

-Paranoid survivalists
-People who like paying over spot, thus putting them in the hole immediately


Pros and cons for both.
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Old 03-24-2011, 04:53 PM   #9
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Buy bullion.

ETFs are for...

1)Suckers
2)People who like paying taxes.

Stay the HELL away from SLV.
You never answered my question in the other silver thread. When 97.6% of the NAV of SLV is in silver bullion, why do you believe purchasing SLV is any different than purchasing bullion (except the fact that you're not paying over spot for it). I agree with you on point 2, but on point 1 you just seem to keep saying this without explaining why.
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Old 03-24-2011, 06:00 PM   #10
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Because silver ETFs are oversold. There are more ETFs than there is physical silver for investors to actually buy. Right now, the oversell is in the 127% range, meaning, that 27% of ETFs are like FIAT currency, backed by nothing. Ponzi did this exact scheme, until one day, investors will demand physical and like Ponzi, they cant produce it. I also find it funny that Madoff got life in prison, and ETFs are perfectly legal. You like SLV, good for you, but at least know that you are literally buying paper backed by nothing.
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Old 03-24-2011, 08:19 PM   #11
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Because silver ETFs are oversold. There are more ETFs than there is physical silver for investors to actually buy. Right now, the oversell is in the 127% range, meaning, that 27% of ETFs are like FIAT currency, backed by nothing. Ponzi did this exact scheme, until one day, investors will demand physical and like Ponzi, they cant produce it. I also find it funny that Madoff got life in prison, and ETFs are perfectly legal. You like SLV, good for you, but at least know that you are literally buying paper backed by nothing.
And what is the paper you are buying silver backed by? For that matter, what is the value of the silver? What is it used in besides trinkets? Gold is used in electronics, spacecraft and many other things. Why, if the dollar and other currencies become useless, would I give you anything at all for it? Silver is used primarily for jewelry, photography and silverware. I can make a ring out of anything. I can eat my food without silver. If the world is in an apocalypse which destroys all nations currencies I will not be dying to use silver to take a picture of it. Where is the value of silver if the dollar and other currencies die exactly? You are buying metal that means nothing and will be useless if current economic conditions and technological advances stop. Any worldwide event which pushes us back into a pre-industrial age will result in silver being worthless for far longer than gold to all but those who have more than plenty of both already...
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:12 PM   #12
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And what is the paper you are buying silver backed by? For that matter, what is the value of the silver? What is it used in besides trinkets? Gold is used in electronics, spacecraft and many other things. Why, if the dollar and other currencies become useless, would I give you anything at all for it? Silver is used primarily for jewelry, photography and silverware. I can make a ring out of anything. I can eat my food without silver. If the world is in an apocalypse which destroys all nations currencies I will not be dying to use silver to take a picture of it. Where is the value of silver if the dollar and other currencies die exactly? You are buying metal that means nothing and will be useless if current economic conditions and technological advances stop. Any worldwide event which pushes us back into a pre-industrial age will result in silver being worthless for far longer than gold to all but those who have more than plenty of both already...
Ummm you do know that silver IS. A PRECIOUS metal and has been used as currency to barter goods for thousands of years. Right???
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Old 03-25-2011, 05:54 PM   #13
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Ummm you do know that silver IS. A PRECIOUS metal and has been used as currency to barter goods for thousands of years. Right???
Rarity has limited value without uses. "Precious" simply means in small supply and what something was used for in the past is irrelevant today. Barley and beads were also used as currency for thousands of years, are you going to buy a bunch of beads next???
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Old 03-25-2011, 06:13 PM   #14
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Bullion is for...

-Paranoid survivalists
-People who like paying over spot, thus putting them in the hole immediately Pros and cons for both.


As opposed to someone who pays 20,30 or 40 times earnings for a stock or ETF ?

Plus a trading fee and potentially a management fee from the ETF house or your brokerage ?
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Old 03-26-2011, 01:29 AM   #15
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Rarity has limited value without uses. "Precious" simply means in small supply and what something was used for in the past is irrelevant today. Barley and beads were also used as currency for thousands of years, are you going to buy a bunch of beads next???
I really think you need to crack open a few books before talking about the subject, as clearly your knowledge on the matter is comical at best.
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Old 03-26-2011, 03:11 PM   #16
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Old 04-07-2011, 11:54 PM   #17
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Can someone explain something to me. I am in between bulilon and etf. Now I understand that people say ETF are a ponzi etc.. however it is much easier to buy and sell silver through them instead of walking around with bullion.
In reality if the world crashes etc... wouldnt food, guns and ammo be worth more than silver or anything?

I feel like etf for making money now
Bullion for long term?

Someone explain to me the difference between getting one or the other.

Thanks guys,
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Old 04-08-2011, 12:13 AM   #18
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Can someone explain something to me. I am in between bulilon and etf. Now I understand that people say ETF are a ponzi etc.. however it is much easier to buy and sell silver through them instead of walking around with bullion.
In reality if the world crashes etc... wouldnt food, guns and ammo be worth more than silver or anything?

I feel like etf for making money now
Bullion for long term?

Someone explain to me the difference between getting one or the other.

Thanks guys,
You don't walk around with bullion. You store it in a safe or safe deposit box.

There is absolutely no benefit of an ETF over physical other than it's "easier to buy" although it takes 3 clicks for me to buy my PMs.

Now, again, I am NOT a believer of the United States apocalypse. I don't think we will end up at that point. However, for the next decade or so, the US will encounter many MANY problems. Our economy is in the tank (we basically have none, we only provide services, and produce almost nothing,) our infrastructure is failing, and our government is wasting. All those factors combined will put this country in check, and into a REAL depression. For some reason, people think that "it can't happen again." That is nothing but naive.

Now, if you want a real answer for your apocalypse scenario, it's very simple. Gold and silver have been used as bartering tools for the last 5000 years. It will ALWAYS be that way. Just because the government decided to get off the gold standard means nothing in the grand scheme. When people start to lose confidence in currency, then what? What will you do if one day you go to buy bread, and the store owner doesn't want your dollars?

Just like the housing bubble, Madoff, and all that crap, buying ETFs is like buying a promise. If the sh1t hits the fan, how will you get your hard earned money out? If you DO profit on your ETF, do you want to pay capital gain on it?

SLV is close in value to the spot price of silver. However, if you sell your ETF, you pay 28%+. If you sell your bullion, you keep 100%. If those two things alone don't convince you to buy bullion, I don't know what else to say.
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:15 AM   #19
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You don't walk around with bullion. You store it in a safe or safe deposit box.

There is absolutely no benefit of an ETF over physical other than it's "easier to buy" although it takes 3 clicks for me to buy my PMs.

Now, again, I am NOT a believer of the United States apocalypse. I don't think we will end up at that point. However, for the next decade or so, the US will encounter many MANY problems. Our economy is in the tank (we basically have none, we only provide services, and produce almost nothing,) our infrastructure is failing, and our government is wasting. All those factors combined will put this country in check, and into a REAL depression. For some reason, people think that "it can't happen again." That is nothing but naive.

Now, if you want a real answer for your apocalypse scenario, it's very simple. Gold and silver have been used as bartering tools for the last 5000 years. It will ALWAYS be that way. Just because the government decided to get off the gold standard means nothing in the grand scheme. When people start to lose confidence in currency, then what? What will you do if one day you go to buy bread, and the store owner doesn't want your dollars?

Just like the housing bubble, Madoff, and all that crap, buying ETFs is like buying a promise. If the sh1t hits the fan, how will you get your hard earned money out? If you DO profit on your ETF, do you want to pay capital gain on it?

SLV is close in value to the spot price of silver. However, if you sell your ETF, you pay 28%+. If you sell your bullion, you keep 100%. If those two things alone don't convince you to buy bullion, I don't know what else to say.
I have another question. How would one go about selling his physical silver. Lets say hypothetically si;lver goes up 100% in one month and i want to sell it, how would i do that with physical silver?
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Old 04-08-2011, 06:24 AM   #20
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I have another question. How would one go about selling his physical silver. Lets say hypothetically si;lver goes up 100% in one month and i want to sell it, how would i do that with physical silver?
The same exact way you bought it. ANYONE who SELLS silver (gold, platinum or palladium) buys it. Some places advertise their buy price. If you go on a site like apmex.com, they list their buy price on most of their items up front. Just like the sell price, the buy price fluctuates as well. The difference between 9am and 10am can be huge. While the markets are open, silver/gold (although gold swings are not nearly as great percentage wise) swing around like stocks, so to catch a great sell time is great. You can also sell to a local coin shop.

For instance, take a look at this link....this is one of my favorite and most bought bars (for those that care, Sunshine mint provides the US mint with silver for silver eagles.)

http://www.apmex.com/Product/43306/1..._Apr_15th.aspx
(As I am posting this...)

The selling price (the price you pay if you buy from them) is $431-$441 (they give discounts for buying in bulk.)
Their current BUY price is $404. Basically, they are paying YOU spot price (the pure price of silver) and you are paying $1.49 per OUNCE over spot, which is how these places make their money.

This is one reason why it's good to buy bars that are "brand name" and everyone carries/recognizes. This way, you can buy from a cheaper source and sell to another source. You do NOT need to buy your silver from the same place you want to sell it to.

I have sold to Apmex before, and the process is very easy. You call them up, and speak to a broker. You agree on a price, and the price is locked and your "order" is placed. You have (I think) 24 hours to give them a tracking number with the metal which you ship USPS fully insured. They receive the package, inspect it, then send payment. They can either wire you money (your cost of $25) or send a check. Thats it. If you do NOT ship it, they can: a)ban you from doing business with them again. b)sue you for market loss. B is not very common, but in today's times, where the difference could be in the THOUSANDS they actually might.

Just for kicks, here is their "sell to us FAQ"
http://www.apmex.com/FAQ/Default.aspx#selling

The three biggest sites I use are www.gainesvillecoins.com, www.goldeneaglecoin.com, and www.apmex.com

All are 100% trustworthy and legit. They also sell stuff that they don't actually have (on allocation from various mints) so certain hot items (sunshine bars, special edition coins, etc) may take longer to arrive, but rest assured, it's coming. You can use www.goldshark.com to quickly check the price of an item from numerous dealers (like kayak.com for precious metals.)
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