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Old 10-14-2013, 02:33 PM   #2981
podge3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffb325@DynavinSystems View Post
Based on the last few comments I figure I should sound off about this......and the current state of things.

Dynavin pioneered this concept but that was a LONG time ago now
.
.
.

Anyway, thats where I stand on this as of now, subject to change of course as tech is always evolving and the next big breakthrough is always right around the corner!
Jeff

While I agree with much of what you say, I disagree that Android is unsuitable for cars.

I got my first Dynavin for you and went through 3 of the Dynas in total. While all the units worked OK, we are all aware of the many problems they had. I think the biggest problem with them was price - people expect a premium product when paying a premium price. The Dynavin units do not qualify as a premium product IMHO as there is absolutely no support from the manufacturer. Were it not for suppliers like yourself, I think Dynavin would have ceased trading long ago.

Aside from price, the main technical issues are that there is no soft shutdown and the fact that the Dynavin is like all the cheap Chinese units i.e. it has 2 "sides", Android/Wince and multimedia.

As we all know by now, the "force close" problem is caused by having no soft shutdown. This could have been easily fixed by Dynavin but they just couldn't be bothered.

Having both Android and multimedia on one double din is like having 2 different units. Users could easily become confused with what each side was meant to do.

While there are many newer Android double dins now available - some running 4.0 - most are still like the Dynavins with a multimedia and Android type system. While they are all cheaper than the Dynas, many are of appalling quality and should be avoided.

The next generation of car android systems seems to be pure Android i.e. the system boots to Android and all options like radio, DVD, DVR, TV etc is selected from there. No more flicking back and forth from Android to multimedia.

You may have seen this thread that I started. While I don't have my unit yet, the feedback so far from the other users is that its really good. I believe the Andrive unit functions in a similar manner, but the specs are not as good. The key to Android stability is a soft shutdown, which the new MGR unit has.

I don't agree that Android is unsuitable for use in cars. If it is implemented properly, then it is the most suitable OS out there for vehicle use. Dynavin just seem to be incapable of doing so IMHO. Pity really as the units are of good quality, they just don't work well.
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Old 10-14-2013, 02:58 PM   #2982
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I got M3volutions MOD on a spare sdcard. I use the navigation primarily for Pandora. I don't install anything else on it except the speech addon for navigation (android side). I keep it real simple and it works pretty good. The touch screen is a pain but you learn how to navigate without too much trouble. I'm not defending the unit but I knew what I was getting myself into after I read the 500+ page thread on the dynavin 99+. If you didn't read the thread and just coughed up the money cause you had it to blow then that's on you. The unit sacrifices alot for the features like having it hot spot ready and being able to run pandora like M3volutions mod has in addition to the swap SDCard that he uses to speed it up a little bit. Go check it out if your not using his mod you probably should consider it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:22 PM   #2983
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Podge:

Not going to argue as what you say is mostly true, except I think your idea about dynavin is all wrong, the reason they are still around is because they DO care about treating customers right, thats why they established a dealer network and support dealers like me to the best of their ability so that WE can support YOU. Their inability to pursue android development and release the code etc... was partially technical but I think it also had to do with their fear that they would be immediately copied, undercut, and there would be soon be crappy knock offs everywhere....and despite their cation, isnt that EXACTLY what has happened? In fact, not blaming him in any way, but "TT" the creator of the one real alternative dynavin ROM met with Dynavin to supposedly get the screen drivers etc...so that he could build a gingerbread ROM. But on the same trip he was also meeting with manufacturers to develop his own competing unit and (probably in his excitement) posted about it on this forum. I dont know what was said, neither dynavin nor TT ever told me, but based on the outcome Im guessing dynavin got wind of what he was up to and probably nixed the whole thing....(feel free to correct me anyone who was there).

I know that there is an argument to be had that they were obligated to release the code, and Im not saying I agree with them playing it so tight, im just telling you where I think they were coming from. I know its frustrating to me to see all of my (and their) hard work over the past years be co-opted by these direct from china sellers who have no intention of taking care of customers past the point where they receive payment.


But back on point....
Im sure an android unit will be great for you as you have a lot of experience with android units and know what you are doing. BUT im basing my opinion on thousands of transactions, thousands of conversations with thousands of users, thousands of hours working on this stuff, and from that I have drawn conclusions about what is the right product for MOST (not all) people. In addition to that I have recently spent a lot of time working with the new Parrot unit which IS very good....for an android unit....but sitting next to a basic pioneer AVH unit on my test bench, the pioneer was still much better at the basic job of being a car stereo. (FYI, I am completely aware of the car launchers, and yes these make android much more suited for car use, but I still think its a bit technical for most and as such a niche product).

So anyway I believe there are reasons that alpine, pioneer, kenwood, car manufacturers etc... have not jumped into the android stuff. Some of it is what I said above in this thread, some of it involves product development time and the fact that android tech is moving faster than non phone electronic manufacturers can keep up with, some of it has to do with the customer service difficulties of trying to explain to a non technical customer a technical product (google Ford's JD power ratings for a good lesson in that).

I have been following your thread with interest and I do think there will be better products in the future, im sure android will run some of them, maybe your incoming unit will be one of those....BUT currently I think sometimes expectations are a little out of line with reality, both with regards to the products themselves and the customers ability to use them.



Quote:
Originally Posted by bimmerkid330 View Post
I got M3volutions MOD on a spare sdcard. I use the navigation primarily for Pandora. I don't install anything else on it except the speech addon for navigation (android side). I keep it real simple and it works pretty good. The touch screen is a pain but you learn how to navigate without too much trouble. I'm not defending the unit but I knew what I was getting myself into after I read the 500+ page thread on the dynavin 99+. If you didn't read the thread and just coughed up the money cause you had it to blow then that's on you. The unit sacrifices alot for the features like having it hot spot ready and being able to run pandora like M3volutions mod has in addition to the swap SDCard that he uses to speed it up a little bit. Go check it out if your not using his mod you probably should consider it.
Right, you are exactly the type of person who should have one, you know exactly what you are going to use it for and exactly how to do it.
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Old 10-14-2013, 03:35 PM   #2984
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Re: Dynavin Info......ANDROID

You guys are all right in some aspects. I do have the m3 Rom. The thing dynavin needs to do like podge stated, is get the shut down option. Also, the cpu, memory and the resistive screen is due for an upgrade. You can buy those "android on a stick" with dual core cpus and 1gb memory for about 60 dollars. I don't see why dynavin can't upgrade these components while charging us an arm and a leg

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Old 10-14-2013, 04:00 PM   #2985
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well, its part tech, and its part economics.....the android hardware itself has to be substantially modified to work in a stereo application, if it were just an all android tablet or other similar device, its no problem, android is made for that.

But making say... nav instructions...overlay nicely while watching a DVD or listening to the radio is a tricky task, so it has to be custom made. To get it priced right you need to buy thousands, and by the time you go through those thousands to recoup your investment the hardware is old and obsolete....android (and tech in general) is currently evolving at a never before seen pace....anything that involves 6+ months development lead time is obsolete before it even comes out! Plus you need to create a custom ROM that works with the custom hardware. All the while your friends down the road are copying everything you do, waiting for you to invest in all the R&D, then buying parts out the back door from your suppliers, copying all they can, and then undercutting your price. There is a lot going on here that the customer does not really immediately think of.

The shutdown thing is a remnant of the "regular" winCE unit on which its based and how power is managed, since it takes months to manifest I dont think they ever saw an issue in development, it wasnt until we had them in the field for a few months that we started seeing "force close" messages. When I first started working on it with them they couldnt even get it to happen, and fixing a problem you cant replicate can be...well....impossible... Even our understanding of it is really only a theory, but my suggestions of managing app updates manually seems to have reduced the issue greatly, some of these new units with "soft" shutdowns will lend some credibility to that theory as they have some more time in the field.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:23 PM   #2986
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Edit - Jeff, you posted again as I was typing what I wrote below, so apologies if it looks like I'm just repeating what you have said.

Again, we are mostly in agreement and at the risk of flogging a dead horse, I'll continue

Obviously there is a huge difference between Dynavin and most Chinese dropshippers. Many of these dropshippers are bordering on criminal in the way they treat their "customers". Dynavin did, in fairness, at least try and have a backup service but it seems to me that they didn't listen to the customers at all.

The Android board didn't change at all from the first Dyna Android (the D90?). AFAIK, the same board is still in the D99+ with a different screen driver but with all the same problems. I'm sure that you other dealers made them aware of the force close issue and absolutely nothing was done about it. IMHO, it could easily have been fixed with a soft shutdown and almost all of the issues with Android could have been cured.

Obviously there are many different levels of technical ability across the customer base. Some people clearly should not have bought an Android unit - we saw this on the MGR cars too. But hundreds of millions of Android phones/tablets have been sold worldwide and I doubt very much if there were anything like the issues we had with the Dynavin. Again, the vast bulk of the problems were with the corruption of the OS, most likely we now thing by hard shutdown/Force Close.

You were dealing with customers on a daily basis so I'm sure you have a much better understanding of the issues. But customers shouldn't have to have a spare card and use the product in a limited basis like bimmerkid330 just posted.

I recently moved away from my D99 as I wanted a change and was fed up with the OS corruption on it. I must admit that it was pretty much fault free other than that but I too had a spare card in my car like bimmerkid330 and I had to use it far too regularly. I stopped "showing off" my fantastic Android double din as it let me down a few times when I was in full demo mode

I'm really hopeful on this new unit. One of the big positives is that the factory have already made little changes to the firmware in response to customer feedback. Maybe Dynavin were just too big to car about feedback, I don't know. The physical quality of the units was very good i.e. plastcis, screen, metal etc etc. We rarely heard of an Actual Android board going faulty, just OS corruption. Surely Dynavin should have been able to fix it?

I had a Pioneer Appradio after I sold my D99. It was flawless in what it did, although a little boring. I think one of the reasons major manufacturers are slow to embrace Android is that the speed of evolution is rapid and the unit will have an old OS by the time it is released, after even a few months of development. Mirroring in the various forms looks like it may the the way ahead as your headunit will move with the phone technology. Another advantage in Mirroring is that if you can use your phone, then you can use your headunit.

Anyway, kudos to you and your efforts on here. I certainly wouldn't have the patience for it. I'll report back on the other thread once my new unit arrives. It better be good news

Last edited by podge3; 10-14-2013 at 04:26 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 04:48 PM   #2987
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Yes, I agree, mirroring is probably where this is all going, its the only way to avoid immediate obsolescence. Its funny....I seem to recall seeing some iOS mirroring setup a few years ago....but I guess nothing came of it? The app radio sort of does that.....but not true mirroring, just certain functionalities.

As far as your ideas about dynavin....I still think you have them wrong, "too big"? They are a small nitche company, and my experience is that they care very much about feedback....but there are economic, physical, and technical constrains on what is possible, if you go back through our history with them you will find lots of changes based on customer feedback, thats where all those "version numbers" we used to use came from, we had to apply version numbers to keep track of all the changes.

As far as the soft close stuff goes, yes i agree, it would be great if they could change that, but Im fairly sure its NOT a simple change or they would have done it a long time ago, based on my (admittedly small) amount of technical understanding of these things Im pretty sure it would require a redesign not just of the android hardware and ROM, but at minimum the main board and power supply too (remember it currently shares that hardware with the far more common winCE unit).....If I had to guess, I would say its simply not economically feasible to develop and source materials for two parallel units with that many different parts. In other words, to change the design would cost more than the potential revenue. Maybe if they WERE a "big" company they could, but a little niche company has economic realities they they must operate within.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:08 PM   #2988
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OK, Jeff, I think we will have to agree to disagree about Dynavin . You know them much better than I do but IMHO they really should have fixed the Force Close problem, no matter what the cost. The whole device was hamstrung because of it

As for the soft shutdown, I think it would have been done quite easily by Dynavin. I'm handy enough with a soldering iron and I considered doing it at one stage. My complete lack of Android programming knowledge stopped me, however.

There would be a few ways of doing it. Obviously the first thing to do would be to provide a permanent 12 volts to the Android board. This could be done either with a small rechargeable battery or with a feed from the permanent 12 volts in the car. OK, a small amount of PCB re-design would be required, not a whole lot IMHO.

What stumped me was how to get Android to sense when the ignition was turned on/off and how to use that to trigger a startup/shutdown. I'm sure those with even a limited knowledge of Android programming would be able to achieve this but I wouldn't. Access to the code would be required, I think.

Last edited by podge3; 10-14-2013 at 05:14 PM.
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:18 PM   #2989
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it sounds like we are both beyond our technical limits at this point!
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Old 10-14-2013, 05:22 PM   #2990
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Quote:
Originally Posted by podge3 View Post

You were dealing with customers on a daily basis so I'm sure you have a much better understanding of the issues. But customers shouldn't have to have a spare card and use the product in a limited basis like bimmerkid330 just posted.

I recently moved away from my D99 as I wanted a change and was fed up with the OS corruption on it. I must admit that it was pretty much fault free other than that but I too had a spare card in my car like bimmerkid330 and I had to use it far too regularly. I stopped "showing off" my fantastic Android double din as it let me down a few times when I was in full demo mode
agreed I shouldn't have too... And also Yes I stopped showing mine off cause i when i tried and failed. Now I just use it casually. I can get pandora working without failure unless the screen goes black and i have to reload the OS. I've learned too deal though. I'm getting what I wanted out of the unit. Pandora, dvd player and a touch screen that provides cool points as long as nobody else tries using it
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Old 11-11-2013, 01:37 PM   #2991
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A completely new android board

Hi guys
I actually drive an audi but feel I could contribute a little to this thread and am also after a little information if anyone knows

I have owned a dynavin d99+ for about 6 months and seeing as my android side went bad (literally didn't turn on) I decided to make my own gps board and wire it all up ..

The board I have runs on a beaglebone black running The latest and greatest android jelly bean . I have it running really well (sound when gps speaks) and even managed to get the touch screen working using a custom driver and gpio on the beaglebone . Start up and shut down is managed via gpio and a small rechargeable battery

My only problem and it's pretty useless without it .. Is I cannot for the life of me work out the video specification that the dynavin unit is expecting

The pins in the dynavin board say r,g,b tft-sync and vsys . I originally took that as rgb and h+ vsync but it didn't work on any resolution any help would be much appreciated
Once I get the board up and running I'll be extremely willing to release the os image and set up guide

Thanks
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Old 11-11-2013, 02:06 PM   #2992
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Android D99+

Quote:
Originally Posted by Boil_galpin View Post
Hi guys
I actually drive an audi but feel I could contribute a little to this thread and am also after a little information if anyone knows

I have owned a dynavin d99+ for about 6 months and seeing as my android side went bad (literally didn't turn on) I decided to make my own gps board and wire it all up ..

The board I have runs on a beaglebone black running The latest and greatest android jelly bean . I have it running really well (sound when gps speaks) and even managed to get the touch screen working using a custom driver and gpio on the beaglebone . Start up and shut down is managed via gpio and a small rechargeable battery

My only problem and it's pretty useless without it .. Is I cannot for the life of me work out the video specification that the dynavin unit is expecting

The pins in the dynavin board say r,g,b tft-sync and vsys . I originally took that as rgb and h+ vsync but it didn't work on any resolution any help would be much appreciated
Once I get the board up and running I'll be extremely willing to release the os image and set up guide

Thanks
Tom
Good work Tom, I can not tell you anything about the internal connections of the dynavin board, but I know that the video resolution is 800x480 and 16bit seems to be because I used some codecs to convert videos to play on the dynavin side and 32bits no take any difference and why presume to be a 16bit video. But I could be wrong.
I'll search a bit, I have a D99 + E8X installed in a BMW 120i 2005.
Welcome, your help will surely clarify many doubts and maybe give us a chance to improve this device.
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:34 PM   #2993
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"GPS State"

Hey guys I have searched this thread with no luck
I have been unable to get my gps to lock onto my location since I installed the unit. Antenna is under dash, although I pulled it out and could not get gps to lock with the antenna on top of dash either. I live in a very populated area, Los Angeles so I can't see a lack of satellites as an issue either, especially since my smart phone gps works like a charm.

Anyways, when I go into the setting menu and check "GPS State" 99% of the time I get satellites allCount 12
Satellites usedCount 0

Sometimes the allCount will change to 11 but usedCount is always 0

Any suggestions gear gurus??? : )



**Fixed**

Ok guys I got some time to really play with the unit and all the settings. Turns out there is a kind of secret menu that you need to access within the AUX mode of the UNIT. Access is gained by holding down the 9 key on the remote control. I know OP said that you need to change region and amp settings, but for me I also needed to change the antenna to automatic. Viola! I got GPS locked down now.

Last edited by Renn; 11-20-2013 at 06:15 PM. Reason: **Fixed**
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Old 11-20-2013, 02:52 PM   #2994
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bad gps antenna or bad connection at the back of the head unit.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:14 AM   #2995
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Hi everyone. i looked for something similar but didnt find anything. i have one of the 1st models od android. so today after my car had been garaged for a month, i turned it on and only the rear speakers worked. !??! so i figured it be a settings issue. nope. cables magically disconnected? nope. i have been puzzled to what it is. then when i clicked on the navi button to switch it to android, the screen goes black blotches white and back to black...with no sound to the front speakers. i tried to do the reset on the front with no luck. i even pulled the unit out to recheck all wires. nope. has anyone had something similar? any help i really appreciate it!!
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Old 12-19-2013, 06:08 AM   #2996
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no one...?
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Old 12-19-2013, 08:27 AM   #2997
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Reinstall the android rom
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Old 12-19-2013, 05:58 PM   #2998
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Thanks jeff for the reply! Is there a link were I can find the rom to fix this problem jeff? Would the rom update fix the front speakers not working?
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Old 12-22-2013, 01:28 PM   #2999
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your front speakers are not working because the android part of the unit is using them and is in some kind of boot loop, the ROM and instructions are on dynavin's website.
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Old 01-16-2014, 06:12 AM   #3000
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Hey Tom

Did you make any progress with your project?

Thanks
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