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Forced Induction Forum
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.

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Old 06-17-2015, 01:06 PM   #1
being3
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S54 turbo fulling

In my testing have found the limits of my s54 turbo fuelling system.

Setup.:
Walbro 400 e85 pump with Walbro 255 inline pump stock fuel regulator. FIC1100 injectors running 94 octane pump gas.

U will see pressure drop at 5300rpm from 90psi to 57psi at 23 lbs of boost. Blue is fuel pressure and orange is boost.
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I changed the fuel regulator and reduced static pressure to 43psi. Now fuel pressure is stabilized.

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With graph below u can see the with the new 43 psi static pressure set verses 68 psi that the boost referenced FPR that fuel PSI stabilizes increasing with boost with pressure drop eliminated. What is happening is that the lower the pressure the volume of fuel goes up. If u have enough injector as I do, there is and increase the horsepower capability of the fuel pumps without having to change or add fuel pumps.

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I will be putting in Bosch 044 inline pump replacing Walbro 255 and increase pressure to see where drop occurs.

I'm doing this testing to for the sole purpose of providing Info for the FI community. I have e85 capable fuel system going in but wanted to gather data first on my current fuel system.

This works well with Infinity as it uses fuel pressure sensor to calculate fuelling for the map. The issue that would arise for example with HPF AEM V1 setup is the fuel map makes up for the drop in pressure above 6k rpm. So fuel table adjustments would be required. IMO this is worth it as I don't like the fact the pressure drops and if the pump gets weak u stand the chance of leaning out above 6k and causing potential issues.

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Old 06-17-2015, 01:26 PM   #2
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Awesome info Anthony thanks.

I'm curious what are the limits of my current set up before I change it to a Custom set up by Jesse

Current;
ID2000 injectors
Radium performance fuel rail -6AN Fitting
-6AN PTFE LINES
Walbro 400e intank
Radium Fuel press reg
Radium Single pump surge tank w/Walbro 400e

Planned:

Removing the Radium single fuel pump surge tank and dropping the Walbro 400e in effectively adding a second or creating a Dual pump using the Walbro 400e I already have.


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Old 06-17-2015, 01:59 PM   #3
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Are you feeding the 255 with the 400? If so I think that's your problem. If you are forcing more fuel in the 255 then it can handle it will cause you drop fuel pressure. Also we have seen where sometimes the fuel pump drop in voltage at higher rpm.
I would run it to a super at relay and have it getting charge from the battery directly.
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Old 06-17-2015, 02:10 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by B18c1turboedek View Post
Are you feeding the 255 with the 400? If so I think that's your problem. If you are forcing more fuel in the 255 then it can handle it will cause you drop fuel pressure. Also we have seen where sometimes the fuel pump drop in voltage at higher rpm.
I would run it to a super at relay and have it getting charge from the battery directly.

Yes feeding 255 with 400e. I am running 30amp solid state relay with power directly from battery with 30amp fuse. I use solid state relay for pulse width modulation of pump so there is little noise generated. Curious do u have part number for super relay ?
I think ur right that the 255 is the limiting factor from a flow stand point. So that's why I'm replacing it with Bosch 044. I'll run a y fitting so that Bosch 044 feeds one of the two input ports of radium FPR and the other as straight through so the 400e is not working against Bosch 044 when not in boost.


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Old 06-17-2015, 02:40 PM   #5
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This is the one we have used in a lot of cars.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...&storeId=10001
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Old 06-17-2015, 05:11 PM   #6
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This is the one we have used in a lot of cars.

http://www.jegs.com/webapp/wcs/store...&storeId=10001

Thanks ... I'm going to check voltage drop for sure to see what's happening at 6k it's almost like the 255 pump shuts off as its so dramatic.


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Old 06-17-2015, 06:07 PM   #7
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just remove the 255.
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Old 06-17-2015, 07:40 PM   #8
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just remove the 255.

I have removed 255 prior but the 400e can't keep 90psi of pressure it drops down to 65psi after 6k.

R u saying that the 400e at 43psi static will flow steady to red line ? And if so could it supply enough for 750 - 800wheel?


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Old 06-17-2015, 10:11 PM   #9
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I have removed 255 prior but the 400e can't keep 90psi of pressure it drops down to 65psi after 6k.

R u saying that the 400e at 43psi static will flow steady to red line ? And if so could it supply enough for 750 - 800wheel?


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I'm curious to know also, I was planning on running the single 400e in tank. But I was planning on pump and race gas only
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:42 PM   #10
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Great info.

Pumps in series make the flow path less efficient than using a larger sized single pump.

Also, unless you are running a gear-type fuel pump, fuel pumps are essentially 4-10 amp fuel heaters....


What are you using for the X and Y axis on the PWM control?



I've got a fuel temp sensor in the surge tank, and a fuel temp sensor in the FPR. It will be interesting to see how the fuel system heats the fuel....
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Old 06-17-2015, 10:57 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
Great info.

Pumps in series make the flow path less efficient than using a larger sized single pump.

Also, unless you are running a gear-type fuel pump, fuel pumps are essentially 4-10 amp fuel heaters....


What are you using for the X and Y axis on the PWM control?



I've got a fuel temp sensor in the surge tank, and a fuel temp sensor in the FPR. It will be interesting to see how the fuel system heats the fuel....

I'm using for main pump x map and y rpm. For aux pump I'm also using x map and y as rpm. I then do logging to see how little duty cycle to keep the fuel pressure constant in keeping with Baro / map / load offset. This is all to keep heat down to a minimum. In fact I should be able to scale it so that the return line fuel is at a minimum suppling the main rail a little over demand at any given load and rpm.
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Old 06-18-2015, 12:48 AM   #12
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I'm using for main pump x map and y rpm. For aux pump I'm also using x map and y as rpm. I then do logging to see how little duty cycle to keep the fuel pressure constant in keeping with Baro / map / load offset. This is all to keep heat down to a minimum. In fact I should be able to scale it so that the return line fuel is at a minimum suppling the main rail a little over demand at any given load and rpm.
I'm using engine load (Efficiency), and doing the same thing for DC to minimize return flow.

The surge tank lift pump I'm still figuring out what to do with. I could run it all the time....but that kind of bugs me from an efficiency perspective. Turning it off and on would minimize fuel flow between the main tank, and the surge tank, but then I wouldn't be taking advantage of the "suction pump" cross-over tube in the main tank, and I'd only be pulling fuel from the pump side. Eventually I'd have fuel on driver's side, and no fuel on the passenger's side. That has brought me to consider running a 2nd pump in the main tank to pump fuel from the driver's side to the passenger's side, and just dumping the return fuel directly on the driver's side. (No suction pump cross-over tube)

Of course, I might be overthinking this...
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Old 06-20-2015, 04:12 PM   #13
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So more testing reveals that 400e and walbro 255 with radium FPR with static fuel pressure runs out of flow at 6800rpm 18psi of boost. Pressure starts to drop. So now it's Bosch 044 time


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Old 06-20-2015, 04:15 PM   #14
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Originally Posted by PEI330Ci View Post
I'm using engine load (Efficiency), and doing the same thing for DC to minimize return flow.

The surge tank lift pump I'm still figuring out what to do with. I could run it all the time....but that kind of bugs me from an efficiency perspective. Turning it off and on would minimize fuel flow between the main tank, and the surge tank, but then I wouldn't be taking advantage of the "suction pump" cross-over tube in the main tank, and I'd only be pulling fuel from the pump side. Eventually I'd have fuel on driver's side, and no fuel on the passenger's side. That has brought me to consider running a 2nd pump in the main tank to pump fuel from the driver's side to the passenger's side, and just dumping the return fuel directly on the driver's side. (No suction pump cross-over tube)

Of course, I might be overthinking this...

I was thinking of a similar thing having one pump on each side of the saddle tank. I worry about fuel starvation and balance issues when running below half tank. So after I complete my playing and testing I'll be keeping the stock jet pump and modify the factory hanger to support two 400e pumps and then feed them directly to fpr and duty cycle second pump up to full boost and rpm. Running two -6 lines to fpr and one -8 to fuel rail.


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Old 06-20-2015, 04:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by being3 View Post
I was thinking of a similar thing having one pump on each side of the saddle tank. I worry about fuel starvation and balance issues when running below half tank. So after I complete my playing and testing I'll be keeping the stock jet pump and modify the factory hanger to support two 400e pumps and then feed them directly to fpr and duty cycle second pump up to full boost and rpm. Running two -6 lines to fpr and one -8 to fuel rail.


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Which is basically what Jesse did ( minus the -8AN line from the fpr to the Rail) and easily hit 900rwhp @28psi on E85


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Old 06-20-2015, 06:39 PM   #16
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Just remember that the siphon that balances the tanks needs a good amount of flow for it to work. I have found that unless you run 55 psi of FP that it will not work properly. Just my findings but hopefully you can make it work with lower pressure.
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Old 06-20-2015, 08:04 PM   #17
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Ultimate fuel system

two walbro 400e, each has own -6 to regulator, return off regulator to tank, -8 to radium rail set up as dead end to keep heat down. 1 pump on all the time, second in boost 5psi plus+ have dynoed at 858 whp at 24 psi, have street tuned and ran up to 32psi on 6766. on E85 and old hpf aem
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Old 06-21-2015, 08:17 AM   #18
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One thing I'm going to do is swap out for 400e to make sure it's not the culprit of dropping fuel pressure.


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Old 06-21-2015, 08:20 AM   #19
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Ultimate fuel system



two walbro 400e, each has own -6 to regulator, return off regulator to tank, -8 to radium rail set up as dead end to keep heat down. 1 pump on all the time, second in boost 5psi plus+ have dynoed at 858 whp at 24 psi, have street tuned and ran up to 32psi on 6766. on E85 and old hpf aem

That's the proper setup for sure ... Nice innovation Jesse


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Old 06-22-2015, 05:37 PM   #20
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Yea Jesse, that setup looks top notch. Are you running a FST with that?
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