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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 05-14-2011, 07:15 PM   #41
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It's from pissing in the old WW1 water-cooled machineguns when you ran out of water. Okay in a pinch, but not a permanent solution due to high corrosion.
lol got it
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Old 05-15-2011, 02:57 PM   #42
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I've had an XD 9mm for a little over a year now and haven't had any issues. Works like the day I bought it. I'm very satisfied with the purchase.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:04 PM   #43
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Check out the Smith & Wesson SW40VE. It it inexpensive, but a solid gun. The trigger pull weight is a bit high, but a spring can be removed from the mechanism to lighten it to about the same as a glock ~8lbs. It is a great gun for the money. You may want to go with the SW9VE if you are concerned with the price of ammunition.

I just sold my SW40VE to a friend and he loves it. I really like the feel of my Glock 26, but the SW40 is a good first gun.
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:16 PM   #44
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Check out the Smith & Wesson SW40VE. It it inexpensive, but a solid gun. The trigger pull weight is a bit high, but a spring can be removed from the mechanism to lighten it to about the same as a glock ~8lbs. It is a great gun for the money. You may want to go with the SW9VE if you are concerned with the price of ammunition.

I just sold my SW40VE to a friend and he loves it. I really like the feel of my Glock 26, but the SW40 is a good first gun.
Why not just buy a M&P then?
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Old 05-18-2011, 01:31 PM   #45
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Check out the Smith & Wesson SW40VE. It it inexpensive, but a solid gun. The trigger pull weight is a bit high, but a spring can be removed from the mechanism to lighten it to about the same as a glock ~8lbs. It is a great gun for the money. You may want to go with the SW9VE if you are concerned with the price of ammunition.

I just sold my SW40VE to a friend and he loves it. I really like the feel of my Glock 26, but the SW40 is a good first gun.
I wouldn't even buy a Sigma to commit suicide. It's the only gun that, if loaded with cheap Russian steel ammo, would be an insult to the ammunition.
Funny enough, S&W still has to pay 60% royalties to Glock for it, despite it being no where near as reliable, durable or capable as a Glock.

If you're going to buy a S&W pistol, do it right and buy an M&P.
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Old 05-18-2011, 04:35 PM   #46
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I wouldn't even buy a Sigma to commit suicide. It's the only gun that, if loaded with cheap Russian steel ammo, would be an insult to the ammunition.
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Old 05-19-2011, 11:30 AM   #47
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Sigmas are the biggest joke, almost as bad as a Hi-Point.
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Old 05-19-2011, 12:03 PM   #48
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Sigmas are the biggest joke, almost as bad as a Hi-Point.
Hi-Points are heavy, ugly and ugly, but for the money... reliable!

Ok, maybe not reliable, but sure can take a beating

ha
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Old 05-19-2011, 01:10 PM   #49
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Hi-Points are heavy, ugly and ugly, but for the money... reliable!

Ok, maybe not reliable, but sure can take a beating

ha
Reliable on everything aside from WWB in my past experience. I really hate that ammo for some reason.
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Old 05-19-2011, 03:12 PM   #50
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The only thing Hi-Points are good for is beating someone with it.

I just don't understand why Glock gets overlooked so much.

It is better AND less expensive than most guns, yet people do everything they can to avoid them. Want fancier, fine. Want more expensive, fine. But under $600 they are pretty darn hard to beat as a self defense or one gun only solution.

Fine, I get it, if you shot a couple and it doesn't fit you right or whatever. But quit trying to reinvent the wheel and buy the original everyone tries to copy.

JMO.
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Old 05-19-2011, 05:01 PM   #51
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I just purchased a XDm 9mm and love it. It will shot whatever I put in it, easy to clean and just looks great!
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:04 PM   #52
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Just tuning in here. I am also shopping for my fist hand gun and today looked at the xd9, the px4 storm beretta and a smith & wesson. I really liked the beretta but have seen no mention of it here. What is your take on it? I'm looking at a 9mm, obviously, but can someone school me on what exactly the dif is between a .40 and .45. Thanks!
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:47 PM   #53
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Just tuning in here. I am also shopping for my fist hand gun and today looked at the xd9, the px4 storm beretta and a smith & wesson. I really liked the beretta but have seen no mention of it here. What is your take on it? I'm looking at a 9mm, obviously, but can someone school me on what exactly the dif is between a .40 and .45. Thanks!
Where are you located? I'm going shooting tomorrow, I can always accomodate a CO fanatic.
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Old 05-19-2011, 07:52 PM   #54
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I am in the springs. And I just happen to be off tomorrow. Shoot me a pm and maybe I can meet ip with you or something.
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:00 PM   #55
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Just tuning in here. I am also shopping for my fist hand gun and today looked at the xd9, the px4 storm beretta and a smith & wesson. I really liked the beretta but have seen no mention of it here. What is your take on it? I'm looking at a 9mm, obviously, but can someone school me on what exactly the dif is between a .40 and .45. Thanks!
The Beretta is a niche weapon. It's a polymer framed gun, but the DA/SA design makes it more applicable in competition to guns like the FNH FNP and HK P30, USP, P2000, and HK45. While it's priced to be competitive with the Glocks, M&Ps and XDs, it's more appropriately compared against the FN and HK pistols, among others.
The PX4 has not gotten a lot of attention because, as far as I see it, it's a victim of stale design. The PX4 is basically the 92FS for the new century. In another thread, it was discussed how I think that the 92FS/M9 is an antiquated weapon system that really has not stood the test of time. It was good for its time, but it was obsolete by the late 90's. The design has poor ergonomics. The grip is decent, but the trigger pull is very long and the trigger weight is very high. The gun has a very high rotational axis under recoil, which hinders speed in follow-up shots. The safety is not accessible to a majority of shooters without shifting or altering the grip of the weapon, or using a second hand. The gun is also very heavy. The magazines were of poor design, and are the weak point of the weapon.
Now, with the exception of the reduced weight and redesigned magazines, the PX4 Storm carried over all of the characteristics to the new platform from the 92FS. The 92FS has never really been a terribly popular weapon, and most people have bought it because it's what the military issues. Don't mistake me- the 92FS/M9 is a very accurate gun that is very reliable when you use the right magazines. However, I consider it more of a "fad" than anything. The military issues three main pistols: the M9 (Beretta M92FS), 1911, and M11 (Sig P228). The 92FS will never reach the popularity of either of the other two designs. I think all of this carries over to the PX4, because it is basically a polymer-framed 92FS.

I think people look at it and go, why would I buy that, when I can get an FNP for the same price, which has much better ergonomic controls, or a Ruger P95 which is cheaper. Or why not get an HK, which are the Porsche of polymer frame DA/SA combat pistols and have been used extensively by SOCOM, Law Enforcement and international militaries?
Just my personal opinion though. If you have shot the weapon and like it and it shoots well for you, then by all means get what you want. Just make sure you compare it to others on the market before you make your decision.


As far as .40 vs .45, the best way to look at it is to bring the 9mm into the equation. The 9mm is a fast light round. The .45 is a slow heavy round. If you combine the best attributes from both, i.e. the speed of the 9mm with the weight of the .45, you get the .40S&W. Back when bullet technology was less advanced, .45s typically displayed excellent energy transfer but had poor penetration. 9mms had exceptional penetration, but less than ideal energy transfer. The FBI came up with the 10mm auto, which was incredibly fast and hit like a hammer with a heavy bullet. Unfortunately, the casing was too long and it didn't fit in conventional handgun frames. There were other reasons why it fizzled. Then S&W took the 10mm and chopped a few millimeters off the end of the casing to shorten it, and they packed it full of powder and slapped on a 180gr bullet and Voilą! We have a heavy bullet going fast with good energy transfer and good penetration. This is why the .40 took over for the 9mm and .45 as the preferred cartridge for many LE and GOV agencies. Because it's not as big as the .45, you can still have a high capacity in your magazines, and because it's relatively compact, you can shoot it out of a smaller frame that you would for 9mm, instead of the larger pistol frames required for .45ACP use.
Thing is, modern advancements in bullet technology have seriously leveled the playing field. The biggest benefactor of bullet technology has been the 9mm. You have bullets that are very fast (1200-1300fps) and that mimic the terminal ballistics of .40S&W and .45ACP. You have a .355" diameter bullet that ends up stuck 12" inside of a body cavity with an expanded diameter of nearly .700" while retaining upwards of 95% of their mass due to bonding technology. Now, .40S&W and .45ACP have benefited from these advancements, but the .40S&W more so than the .45ACP because the .45ACP is stymied by low velocity (800-900fps).

I personally like having .40S&W for off-duty carry, as well as on-duty carry. I have done extensive training shooting through windshields, car doors and various building materials, and the .40S&W is an exceptionally capable round that I think has many positive features for personal protection and professional use. However, if you were to ask me what I prefer to use on the range and in training, I'll tell you right now that I much rather prefer 9mm. If I could only have one caliber for the rest of my life, I'd likely choose the 9mm. I say this because the .40S&W is a much higher pressure round. The felt recoil is higher than .45 or 9mm, and the recoil pulse is sharper and more abrupt. The .45 is a slower, longer recoil. 9mm recoil is abrupt, but lighter and more consistent. In my travels, I have seen people have more marksmanship-related issues with .40S&W than I have with 9mm or .45ACP, and all experts agree that it's related to the high pressure of the .40S&W cartridge creating a different kind of recoil. I've learned to shoot the .40S&W, but it took more time to become proficient with it.

The other issue to consider is that the .45ACP is a larger round, and the frames of .45ACP pistols are larger. If you have smaller hands, you will have difficulty gripping most double-stack .45s. Additionally, .45s have the lowest magazine capacity. Ancillary but still applicable, .45ACP is also the most expensive to buy. The .45 is an exceptional round, but like any other cartridge, it has it's place. Where the .45 has the ultimate advantage is that all 230gr rounds are subsonic, and they are the ideal load to use with suppressors. This is a huge advantage for SpecOps units. The .45 is also a very accurate cartridge that can be handloaded to have very light recoil, making it an exceptional practical competition round.

In the end, it's all about personal preference. I have a Glock 22 for duty use and a Glock 27 for undercover work and off-duty carry, and they're .40S&W. I have a 9mm Glock 34 for training and competition. I am a firm believer that guns are tools, and you need to tailor the tool for the job.
In the end, it comes down to personal preference.

If you only get one pistol for the rest of your life, I'd recommend 9mm. If you only get one revolver for he rest of your life, I'd recommend the .357 Magnum (you can shoot .38spl out of the .357). They are the best overall general rounds that can sufficiently perform in all important categories. They may have weaknesses in some areas, but they're the most well-rounded calibers IMO.

Just my thoughts. YMMV
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Old 05-19-2011, 10:28 PM   #56
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I sometimes print out Reedos posts and read them on the toilet.

@ knowledge

Totally agree on the .40

I'm looking to sell my .40 XD Subcompact to buy the same gun in a 9mm caliber
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:03 AM   #57
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You said it, jj. That info was a bit overwhelming but that is a ton of great information. It won't be the only weapon I buy but it will be my first. One of the reasons I'm getting one is because I'm applying and hoping to go through the Colorado Springs Police Department and want to be experienced with the tools the job will require.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:03 AM   #58
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I sometimes print out Reedos posts and read them on the toilet.

@ knowledge

Totally agree on the .40

I'm looking to sell my .40 XD Subcompact to buy the same gun in a 9mm caliber
I'm glad to see that stuff I put out helps people shlt in comfort.
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Old 05-20-2011, 12:11 AM   #59
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Reedo302....

That was Epic !

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Old 05-20-2011, 12:12 AM   #60
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You said it, jj. That info was a bit overwhelming but that is a ton of great information. It won't be the only weapon I buy but it will be my first. One of the reasons I'm getting one is because I'm applying and hoping to go through the Colorado Springs Police Department and want to be experienced with the tools the job will require.
I find that the 9mm is just the most conducive to learning the proper fundamentals of marksmanship. We have a SKILLS program that you have take prior to taking your POST license test (which you have to have before you can get hired). SKILLS courses must all teach POST-required curriculum, but each course is held by different colleges and universities. They have different instructors and there is room for each program to tailor their program to their specifications. While the 9mm is not required, every SKILLS program in the state uses 9mm pistols for the firearms training portion. I think that says something to the ease of learning with that round.

Often times, I find that SKILLS students and future recruits want to get the gun that their future agency uses. This is not necessarily a bad idea, but it's better to get a gun that you can shoot with ease and learn proper marksmanship fundamentals. Some departments issue or authorize bad guns, so it leaves room for issues. My agency used to issue the Beretta 96D. Berettas are accurate guns, but when you have a 13lb DAO trigger, that accuracy goes right out the window. The instant we switched to the Glock 22, qualification scores skyrocketed while times were cut in half.

If haven't already, go join Officer.com and Lightfighter.net. There is a wealth of LEO weapons and training information on those sites.
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