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Old 02-07-2012, 04:32 PM   #1
HighPod
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looking for some Throttle body knowledge for diagnosis

so a couple weeks ago my EML, check engine, and Traction Control lights came on and car drove like crap. was able to bring it to the mechanic and i told them i didnt need the car back right away so take your time to try n pin point the prob. i got 175,000 miles on the car

so i just got off the phone with the mechanics and they say could be bad wiring harness but is most likely the Throttle body. apparently BMW had a common issue with the wiring harnesses. they said that there are sensors in the throttle body that communicate with the pedal that are prob malfunctioning. they do good work and i trust them but i want to understand some things before i blow 650$ on a new throttle body.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:26 PM   #2
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Assume you have the 'drive by wire' throttle? Not the mechanical?

Where did you get the $650 price?
http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...01&hg=13&fg=15
This shows much lower and that's list!

This is for my car: http://www.rmeuropean.com/search.asp...rd=13547502445
It's a 330.
Perhaps yours is more expensive?

Are you DIY at all?

And what is your question specifically?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPod View Post
so a couple weeks ago my EML, check engine, and Traction Control lights came on and car drove like crap. was able to bring it to the mechanic and i told them i didnt need the car back right away so take your time to try n pin point the prob. i got 175,000 miles on the car

so i just got off the phone with the mechanics and they say could be bad wiring harness but is most likely the Throttle body. apparently BMW had a common issue with the wiring harnesses. they said that there are sensors in the throttle body that communicate with the pedal that are prob malfunctioning. they do good work and i trust them but i want to understand some things before i blow 650$ on a new throttle body.

Last edited by Stinger9; 02-07-2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:32 PM   #3
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Sounds like a BS diag. to me
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:39 PM   #4
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i am a DIY person, i got my price from pelican parts http://www.pelicanparts.com/cgi-bin/...20328i%2FCi%20


im just looking to gain some understanding on the throttle body
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:50 PM   #5
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Kind of doubting the throttle body in general. I would only replace the throttle body if the bushings are shot and the shaft is super sloppy. Not sure this is a "common" BMW problem. The if it needed a throttle body, I would look for a used one as I am sure there are PLENTY of these out there.

I am guessing that maybe a bad TPS, I would replace this before the throttle body. If you have drive by wire, I have heard about a few problems of sticky throttle plates due to carbon build up. If you have drive by wire, I would pull the throttle body for a full cleaning and inspection. Once removed you could easily determine if a replacement is really warranted, otherwise, replace the throttle body gasket and TPS, clean up the ICV and replace the ICV grommet/hose.

I think??? the ASC may be a side function of the EML light coming on?

I would get the codes read by a tool that supports full BMW specific codes as a generic tool may miss some important codes.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:52 PM   #6
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Sometimes the throttle bodies on these cars do go bad, I've seen a few replaced but not common by any means. I have also heard of the wiring issue from the techs in the shop, but never seen/fixed it myself, so not sure what was actually wrong.
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Old 02-07-2012, 05:57 PM   #7
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Definitely no common problem with BMW wiring harnesses or throttle bodies. What immediately comes to mind is a mechanic doing old car type diagnostics on modern car. But nobody here can really say much of anything since we have so little information. If we had diagnostic codes, or knew what model car you had, etc... we could give more info.
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:13 PM   #8
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i have a 323ci (coupe). the only code i got was when i first brought it there and only the check engine light was on by then. it was P0601 - Internal Control Module Memory Check Sum Error. since they've had it the other lights came back on and checked it but i didnt ask what codes. they said it was something to do with the throttle body not responding correctly i cant remember what they said exactly sorry
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:22 PM   #9
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You probably need a BMW specific code reader to really tell for sure what is going on. If he codes were cleared, you may need to for them to come back and have them read with a Peake or some other BMW specific tool.

Throttle body not responding correctly sound like a TPS assuming you have a throttle cable system.

Confirm your cars year, 2000?
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Old 02-07-2012, 06:44 PM   #10
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yes 2000
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:31 PM   #11
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It appears your car has a throttle cable, so TPS is probably a likely culprit?
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Old 02-07-2012, 07:49 PM   #12
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Yeah, the 323's (and 328's) all came with throttle cables.

I certainly can't tell you that the shops diagnosis is correct. But, it seems reasonable. The clue here is that the EML light is on. This light only seems to come on for throttle body related / ISC issues - see http://www.beisansystems.com/misc/SE...ROL_SYSTEM.pdf (in particular look at page 51 through 54 as well as page 41.) Based on your description, my guess is that a fault within the MDK has been found and that you are in Emergency Operation 1. That being said, I have no idea whether such a fault would be the TPS's in the throttle body or the wiring.

Good luck,

Luke

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Old 02-08-2012, 01:18 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPod View Post
so a couple weeks ago my EML, check engine, and Traction Control lights came on and car drove like crap. was able to bring it to the mechanic and i told them i didnt need the car back right away so take your time to try n pin point the prob. i got 175,000 miles on the car

so i just got off the phone with the mechanics and they say could be bad wiring harness but is most likely the Throttle body. apparently BMW had a common issue with the wiring harnesses. they said that there are sensors in the throttle body that communicate with the pedal that are prob malfunctioning. they do good work and i trust them but i want to understand some things before i blow 650$ on a new throttle body.
"and car drove like crap"
Was it in limping mode? (could only move about 5mph regardless of throttle position.)

If it was, then I suggest to remove the throttle body and clean around the butterfly and the barrel -- the butterfly might have jammed.

BTW, also check the big round electrical connector for a complete tight connection.

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Old 02-08-2012, 08:20 AM   #14
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For my money, I bet this is no more than a dirty ICV. Idle Air Control Valve. Probably just needs to be removed, cleaned & oiled, put back.
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:10 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lmr2wil View Post
Yeah, the 323's (and 328's) all came with throttle cables.

I certainly can't tell you that the shops diagnosis is correct. But, it seems reasonable. The clue here is that the EML light is on. This light only seems to come on for throttle body related / ISC issues
yeah they said that codes pointed to the throttle body. i think he said something about a potentiometer but not the gas pedal one. apparently the other two are part of the body


Quote:
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"and car drove like crap"
Was it in limping mode? (could only move about 5mph regardless of throttle position.)

BTW, also check the big round electrical connector for a complete tight connection.
they said it was like it was in limp mode but it wasnt actually in it. to me it felt like it was missing when i drove it or let it idle. what exactly is limp mode?

im gonna do some cleaning when i pick it up today. im gonna have some cold hands




another thing i did notice was the MPG gauge was way off when i hit the gas, it pretty much would shoot over to zero


thank you all for your ideas
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Old 02-08-2012, 02:36 PM   #16
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Limping mode is when the computer detected a major malfunction, i.e. throttle seized up or bad transmission, and allowed only about 5mph moving no matter what you did.

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Old 02-08-2012, 07:40 PM   #17
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HighPod,

There are four potentiometers acting as throttle position sensors on your car. All four of them are in the throttle body itself. Two (a redundant pair) measure where you are trying to put the throttle plate using your foot (and the throttle cable) and the other two (another redundant pair) are used to let the DME know whether or not its adjustments to your desired throttle angle are carried out - the DME uses info like whether or not the wheels are spinngin etc to decide if the throttle plate should be where you want it or should be moved via a stepper motor (this is also how cruise works in these cars). My point is, that if either of these pairs of potentiometers fails to agree with each other, then your car goes into emergency operation. It seems like you could measure the resistance across both sets of pots to make sure that they agree - this may be a way to decide if the shops diagnosis is correct.

On another note, Brinkley's suggestion is fair. The DME will also light the EML and throw a tantrum over a jammed ISC. It would likely be cheaper and easier to start there (by cleaning it) and ensuring that the barrel rotates easily.

Good luck,

Luke
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Old 02-11-2012, 04:45 PM   #18
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fantastic information, thanks. im gonna do some cleaning first and see what happens
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Old 04-03-2012, 10:37 AM   #19
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result?

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighPod View Post
fantastic information, thanks. im gonna do some cleaning first and see what happens
HighPod:

I am having similar issues and was wondering how this issue turned out for you.
Please advise if possible.
Thanks
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:33 PM   #20
HighPod
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Well I took out my idle control valve and was jammed with crud. So I flooded it with throttle body cleaner a few times. Its been good since

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