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Old 06-22-2011, 09:55 AM   #1
alhayek
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Car heated up after Expansion Tank Replacement... Cause?

So I replaced my expansion tank lately. I Just removed a few hoses... The upper hose (Connected to the radiator and passing through the top of the Expansion Tank was hard to remove and hard to put back in).
In short , I followed this DIY

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=415259

After I was done , I turned on the car and kept it running for a while, everything was ok (No AC) , I just noticed I haven't screwed the vent screw (the screw located on the upper hose), so I tried to screw it in , but it broke. So I replaced it.
I turn on the car again (No AC), No problem. So I put my stuff in the car, turn on the AC and drive to work. 5 minutes later or less the engine heats up till the red zone ! I pull over immediately (They really should have the car make a sound when the engine heats up !).

What could I have possible broken or messed up to cause the engine to heat up ? What should I check as a precautionary measure now that the engine did heat up ?

Thanks in advance for your help
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Old 06-22-2011, 09:58 AM   #2
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Is it me, or this same topic gets posted 3 times a day now.

BTW re: "(They really should have the car make a sound when the engine heats up !)." http://www.zhpregistry.net/Tech/CoolantSnitch.aspx

If you caught it within minutes of it getting hot, I am guessing that are probably ok.
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:06 AM   #3
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Originally Posted by nk_zhp View Post
Is it me, or this same topic gets posted 3 times a day now.

BTW re: "(They really should have the car make a sound when the engine heats up !)." http://www.zhpregistry.net/Tech/CoolantSnitch.aspx

If you caught it within minutes of it getting hot, I am guessing that are probably ok.
Its amazing how people quickly steal your ideas and turn them to money .. Anyway, I think I might have not bled the system properly. I'll do it one more time and hope it goes well.

And I will purchase this product! These car makers REALLY need to just include this sound alarm !
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Old 06-22-2011, 10:52 AM   #4
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I think you need to bleed the system...

While the engine is running with the heater on remove the bleed screw.

Fill with coolant until it flows out the bleed screw port.

Reinstall the bleed screw and expansion tank cap.

Drive for a while and check the coolant level.

Repeat bleed process again if necessary.

Good luck.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:09 AM   #5
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Your problem is with trapped air pockets in your cooling system. Need to bleed.

Bleeding usually takes a good 30 minutes the first time around, until you get the hang of it.
So, take your time and don't rush it.
Use BMW coolant - proper mixture 50/50 with distilled water.

PS: That temperature snitch device is pretty cool. Was there a DIY kit before it was commercialized?

Last edited by BimmersGarage; 06-22-2011 at 11:20 AM.
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Old 06-22-2011, 11:32 AM   #6
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PS: That temperature snitch device is pretty cool. Was there a DIY kit before it was commercialized?
Here's the thread where I talk about it a little more. I designed and developed it from scratch, at the time I couldn't find anything specific to E46s on the market.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=852438
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Old 06-22-2011, 01:52 PM   #7
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As others have pointed out you probably just need to rebleed the system.
If after rebleeding the system your car only overheats with the A/C on and you're stuck in traffic and not moving, then it's most likely your fan. That happened to me after my expansion tank burst. My car would only overheat with the A/C on and when I was stuck in traffic. I had to replace the car's fan because it wasn't spinning as it should.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:22 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by nk_zhp View Post
Is it me, or this same topic gets posted 3 times a day now.

You're not kidding. Clearly, no one bothers to search.

This is a COMMON problem with cooling system DIYers.

The system needs to be bled properly.
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Old 06-22-2011, 02:50 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BimmersGarage View Post
Your problem is with trapped air pockets in your cooling system. Need to bleed.

Bleeding usually takes a good 30 minutes the first time around, until you get the hang of it.
So, take your time and don't rush it.
Use BMW coolant - proper mixture 50/50 with distilled water.

PS: That temperature snitch device is pretty cool. Was there a DIY kit before it was commercialized?
My only concern regarding that temperature snitch device is that it might interfere with the electric system of the car . I know that BMW's electric system is extra delicate when it it comes to adding aftermarket electronics.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:29 PM   #10
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Alhayek, you have a valid concern. We've spent the better half of last year analyzing the sensor signal and internal DME electronics. All I can report are facts, we have 3 test vehicles with the device installed. One of them is my personal daily driver, which has had the device for the past 4 months. None of the test vehicle owners reported any adverse effects. I am hoping by next week to have 5 test vehicles total, these new cars will mainly be tested because there have a different version of the DME (MS42 and MS43). We currently do not make claims that the device is compatible with those versions because of lack of historical data.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by alhayek View Post
My only concern regarding that temperature snitch device is that it might interfere with the electric system of the car . I know that BMW's electric system is extra delicate when it it comes to adding aftermarket electronics.
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Old 06-22-2011, 03:40 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by ZHPRegistry View Post
Alhayek, you have a valid concern. We've spent the better half of last year analyzing the sensor signal and internal DME electronics. All I can report are facts, we have 3 test vehicles with the device installed. One of them is my personal daily driver, which has had the device for the past 4 months. None of the test vehicle owners reported any adverse effects. I am hoping by next week to have 5 test vehicles total, these new cars will mainly be tested because there have a different version of the DME (MS42 and MS43). We currently do not make claims that the device is compatible with those versions because of lack of historical data.

p.s. note my screen name change as I am proud to become a sponsor here on E46fans!
@ZHPRegistry, well feel free to share your progress and PM me whenever your testing is complete and you feel the product is ready for MS43
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:16 PM   #12
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Looking at the OP's original post and based upon the two exploding ET tanks in both my e46's in the past 4 weeks I might suggest that he is not having an "air pocket" issue from a poor bleed.

Possibly contributing to his overheating issue, but the exploding ET tanks are a symptom of another problem. In both my own cases the ET tanks blew for two main reasons. - The coolant wasn't being cooled and the ET cap did not perform as intended which is meant to relieve the pressure built up in the ET.

The coolant wasn't being cooled as the Aux fan relay had gone - the fan motor worked - I could see them spinning but only during the self check and occasionally when the AC was started. The signal sent to the fan relay that is supposed to come from the coolant temp sensor on the lower rad hose wasn't being passed properly. I had to replace fans in both cars since the aux relay is attached to the fan shroud and sold as a single unit.

I saw the codes a few days before each ET explosion - net result - the ET tanks blow up cause the aux fan relay gives out.
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Old 06-22-2011, 07:45 PM   #13
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FYI, I'd just read that the control module of the fan is available as a separate item...I believe an 'ebay-like' item...not OE...just saying. I don't think I'd like it as well as a new $150 fan, but some might not have a choice...I have no other information...just one mention in a post here.
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Old 06-23-2011, 10:34 AM   #14
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Originally Posted by BMW-North View Post
Looking at the OP's original post and based upon the two exploding ET tanks in both my e46's in the past 4 weeks I might suggest that he is not having an "air pocket" issue from a poor bleed.

Possibly contributing to his overheating issue, but the exploding ET tanks are a symptom of another problem. In both my own cases the ET tanks blew for two main reasons. - The coolant wasn't being cooled and the ET cap did not perform as intended which is meant to relieve the pressure built up in the ET.

The coolant wasn't being cooled as the Aux fan relay had gone - the fan motor worked - I could see them spinning but only during the self check and occasionally when the AC was started. The signal sent to the fan relay that is supposed to come from the coolant temp sensor on the lower rad hose wasn't being passed properly. I had to replace fans in both cars since the aux relay is attached to the fan shroud and sold as a single unit.

I saw the codes a few days before each ET explosion - net result - the ET tanks blow up cause the aux fan relay gives out.

As it turns out it was a bleeding issue. But I do like to hear the advice of people who actually had a similar problem. I will keep an eye on the fan. I did replace the cap though , so I think I'm good there.

I got rid of the air pockets by Turning on the engine and the heater to the max temprature while the fan is on. removed the ET cap , amd removed the vent screw. poured coolant as necessary , then waited till hot air (and coolant) started splashing from the vent screw. turned off the car , and placed the vent screw back. Suddenly coolant in the ET started dropping dramatically , so I filled it up.

I repeated the process one more time, and drove the car around with the heater off/On and with the AC while keeping my eye on the temperature gauge. Everything looks fine.

I do want to keep an eye on the rest of my cooling system since I read that I should expect other components to start giving up since I hit my 100K mark.
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:15 AM   #15
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Originally Posted by ZHPRegistry View Post
Alhayek, you have a valid concern. We've spent the better half of last year analyzing the sensor signal and internal DME electronics. All I can report are facts, we have 3 test vehicles with the device installed. One of them is my personal daily driver, which has had the device for the past 4 months. None of the test vehicle owners reported any adverse effects. I am hoping by next week to have 5 test vehicles total, these new cars will mainly be tested because there have a different version of the DME (MS42 and MS43). We currently do not make claims that the device is compatible with those versions because of lack of historical data.

p.s. note my screen name change as I am proud to become a sponsor here on E46fans!
Any plans to make an MSS54 version of the product? M3 temperature gauge is programmed a little differently than non-M (Becomes fully vertical at 83 degrees, becomes slightly above vertical from 86 degrees and beyond... Not sure when it hits the marker before the red zone though.), but I'd imagine the signals themselves are similar since the temp gauge still works when an M3 cluster is transplanted into a non-M. Definitely would be nice to have an audible warning before the car completely overheats. Would be even cooler if you were able to use the stock piezo speaker
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Old 07-02-2011, 12:38 AM   #16
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I like the idea of this. I lost an expansion tank with no idea as to why, just like many here I'm sure. I'd rather have some sort of leading indicator like this.
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Old 07-02-2011, 01:22 PM   #17
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I'm with terra. Stock piezo or gong FTW.

by the way, I believe you can go in INPA and simulate water temperatures (in grad C)to view the gauges reaction if you are curious about the red zone. I might try it today.
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Old 07-02-2011, 08:19 PM   #18
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Any plans to make an MSS54 version of the product? M3 temperature gauge is programmed a little differently than non-M (Becomes fully vertical at 83 degrees, becomes slightly above vertical from 86 degrees and beyond... Not sure when it hits the marker before the red zone though.), but I'd imagine the signals themselves are similar since the temp gauge still works when an M3 cluster is transplanted into a non-M. Definitely would be nice to have an audible warning before the car completely overheats. Would be even cooler if you were able to use the stock piezo speaker
Hey Terra, hope all is well, yes MSS54 is in the works. As you said, signals *should* be identical. However I don't want to assume anything. I am currently testing MS43 and MS42, results are very positive, the device is most likely to work as is without any changes. MSS54 is next on the list, I've had many inquiries about both the E46 and E36 M3s.

Quote:
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I like the idea of this. I lost an expansion tank with no idea as to why, just like many here I'm sure. I'd rather have some sort of leading indicator like this.
I can send you a note as soon as the MS43 compatibility testing is complete.

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I'm with terra. Stock piezo or gong FTW.

by the way, I believe you can go in INPA and simulate water temperatures (in grad C)to view the gauges reaction if you are curious about the red zone. I might try it today.
The idea of using the stock piezo is great, and believe me I have tried to go down that route, one less item that needs to be part of the kit means less cost. Sadly it's hard to "borrow" that device reliably without affecting stock electronics.
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