Fuel Pump Replacement Book Time

DIY thread w/ pics:

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=592414

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Who makes the OE pump?

I honestly never looked. I just use the BMW pumps now as the warranty rate on those is less than .5% so I frankly don't have an answer.

I can try to make something up for you but you might not buy it

Originally Posted by jbeurotech

I honestly never looked. I just use the BMW pumps now as the warranty rate on those is less than .5% so I frankly don't have an answer.

I can try to make something up for you but you might not buy it

Just curious - I've heard from a couple people that the parts from places like Pelican actually are from the real manufacturer, but they failed QC... maybe there's some truth to that

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Just curious - I've heard from a couple people that the parts from places like Pelican actually are from the real manufacturer, but they failed QC... maybe there's some truth to that

Could be I will try to look at the next pump i do. I know I track warranty percentage so I know what parts I can use That would be interesting if the Factory part was VDO

There are many variables in manufacturing. Not being held to the same quality standards and failing QC aren't necessarily the same thing. The same parts sold under different brand names can be allowed different tolerances (not saying this is necessarily true for any particular part or manufacturer). It's also possible that the selection of tests performed may differ (brand X gets tested for A, B, C whereas brand Y may only get tested for C). It's even possible that the sample rates may differ (ie, testing every unit, versus testing 1 out of every 100, versus testing 1 out of every 10000, etc). These kinds of variations in the quality control procedures can all lead to different failure rates by brand, even though the parts are made one ofter the other on the same assembly line. While it's not completely impossible that the non-BMW version of a part failed to meet BMW quality specs and was "demoted" to OEM status, it's also not likely that a manufacturer would have enough of a failure rate to fully supply the volume of OEM parts they sell.

Originally Posted by jbeurotech

Could be I will try to look at the next pump i do. I know I track warranty percentage so I know what parts I can use That would be interesting if the Factory part was VDO

Recently in another thread someone said it was VDO...forget who said it, but it was someone I trusted...for what that's worth.

What I've heard is that if you get OEM from an OES that the inspection rate might not be as high as when it has the BMW logo stamped on it, and that alone might explain why JB is seeing a 5% failure rate, and frankly, is just another reason why it makes sense to let the shop doing the work get the parts.

Originally Posted by TxZHP04

There are many variables in manufacturing. Not being held to the same quality standards and failing QC aren't necessarily the same thing. The same parts sold under different brand names can be allowed different tolerances (not saying this is necessarily true for any particular part or manufacturer). It's also possible that the selection of tests performed may differ (brand X gets tested for A, B, C whereas brand Y may only get tested for C). It's even possible that the sample rates may differ (ie, testing every unit, versus testing 1 out of every 100, versus testing 1 out of every 10000, etc). These kinds of variations in the quality control procedures can all lead to different failure rates by brand, even though the parts are made one ofter the other on the same assembly line. While it's not completely impossible that the non-BMW version of a part failed to meet BMW quality specs and was "demoted" to OEM status, it's also not likely that a manufacturer would have enough of a failure rate to fully supply the volume of OEM parts they sell.

That's assuming that *only* the failed parts would be sold to aftermarket suppliers. However, since jbeurotech's observed failure rate was still relatively low (5% instead of something ridiculous like 25%) it would seem that the parts that meet all of BMW's standards make it into the aftermarket supply too. Not saying that failed QC is the definite explanation, but it does seem plausible to me.

Whatever the reason is, it's still interesting that jbeurotech noticed a fairly significant difference in failure rate between the pumps sourced from BMW and the pumps that weren't (assuming his sample size is large enough to draw valid conclusions from). For parts that tend to fail frequently on our cars, it might be worth paying a little bit extra to buy from a dealer.

Originally Posted by dmax

Recently in another thread someone said it was VDO...forget who said it, but it was someone I trusted...for what that's worth.

What I've heard is that if you get OEM from an OES that the inspection rate might not be as high as when it has the BMW logo stamped on it, and that alone might explain why JB is seeing a 5% failure rate, and frankly, is just another reason why it makes sense to let the shop doing the work get the parts.

I get that... but at the same time I have my own reservations about letting a shop order parts. For example, many shops insist that the Meyle control arms are perfectly fine for the E46 (and of course will pad the price a bit to earn even more money on top of the labor). I'd rather know exactly what's being installed on my car

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

Not saying that failed QC is the definite explanation, but it does seem plausible to me.

My point was simply that there are any number of ways to arrive at different failure rates per brand even when the parts are made on the same assembly line.

Originally Posted by TerraPhantm

For parts that tend to fail frequently on our cars, it might be worth paying a little bit extra to buy from a dealer.

With the relatively recent appearance of the online BMW parts department selling BMW branded parts at or near wholesale prices, it's getting increasingly harder to argue against using BMW branded replacement parts.

The car is fixed. Shop charged me an hour worth of labor (which is fine by me; cheaper than dealership). They though were taking a lot longer than anyone should expect to diagnose the issue especially when I told them what the problem was.

If I had the time I would have done it myself. I was 95% sure it was the pump. However considering my prior experience changing the fuel filter I wanted someone else to do it. Changing the fuel filter was not fun. At all.

Originally Posted by Whammy

Does anyone know what the book time to replace a fuel pump on the E46? I having some issues with my independent mechanic and need to know what a dealership would charge to perform the same work.

Thanks!

I'm kind of curious what issue you had with the indy, though it's none of my business...but you sort of brought it up!

Did he say 2-3 hours and you said, but I read on Fanatics that it's 1/2 an hour?

(Deleted a large rant since I started a reply before I read your last post, OP) If anyone is reading it now, just ignore it!

The stealer's getting me for $1,000 to replace fuel pump and filter
Wife's car broke down in the middle of Atlanta. It was towed to the dealer. She's stuck and I don't have the time to tow it back to the house and take care of it. I'm an avid DIYer, and that price tag is KILLING me
The Pain!!!

Yeah, you need a hug and a kiss because the Stealership bent you over and gave it to you high and hard... $1,000.00 for a fuel filter and fuel pump wow! The combined jobs can be performed in under an hour and the parts are under $250.00 total...

Originally Posted by Zchild

Yeah, you need a hug and a kiss because the Stealership bent you over and gave it to you high and hard... $1,000.00 for a fuel filter and fuel pump wow! The combined jobs can be performed in under an hour and the parts are under $250.00 total...

Sure, if you sell the parts below cost.

Originally Posted by beberle

The stealer's getting me for $1,000 to replace fuel pump and filter
Wife's car broke down in the middle of Atlanta. It was towed to the dealer. She's stuck and I don't have the time to tow it back to the house and take care of it. I'm an avid DIYer, and that price tag is KILLING me
The Pain!!!

You tell your wife to tell the dealer that you know it takes under an hour to do both, and that if it doesn't make some concession, you'll be sure to write about it on every bmw forum you can find...that you'd much rather tell the story about how this dealer helped your wife out and was fair.

Fuel pumps on-line are $199.00 and Fuel filters on-line are $19.99; here's the website for proof; http://www.bavauto.com

Originally Posted by flashtwosix

change out the fuel pump yourself. it only took me 30 mins and I was going SLOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally Posted by jbeurotech

I agree, However I also am in a shop management group I see 20 shops numbers all over the country and it the same stories TRUST ME no one is getting rich at this. As an avg expenses are very high in this business

Unfortunately. However, customers can choose to not pay for your expenses and do the work themselves. with just under 200 dollars worth of tools i've done over 3k+ worth of labor I would have been charged otherwise by going to a shop.

Originally Posted by Zchild

Fuel pumps on-line are $199.00 and Fuel filters on-line are $19.99; here's the website for proof; http://www.bavauto.com

Apples to oranges. That's all aftermarket.

So I talked to the non-Service Manager at the dealer. They charged $618 for labor for the fuel pump & fuel filter!!!! I expected the $50 fuel filter and $350 pump. What's the $6.50 for BRAKE CLEANER!? He said they cleaned the fuel tank... w/ BRAKE CLEANER??
I asked him how many hours they charged for the work. His response: we don't charge hours, it's a fixed price per-job.
I reply, this job should have only taken 21/2 hours, are you charging $250/hr labor? His response: where do you get that time. I replied: BMW forums. His reply: that's not the offical 'book'. I reply: I've done fuel pump changes myself in under 2 hours. His response: the price is non-negotiable. Then he says he'll look up the book times just for me. He comes back with 4.1 hours to change the pump, 1.7 hours to drain fuel, and .4 hours for the filter... 6.2 hours. I'm not an idiot (other than taking my car to the dealer), I know he basically divided $618 by $100/hr to pull those #s.
I'm writing to BMW USA, but that's going to provide little satisfaction.

Originally Posted by beberle

So I talked to the non-Service Manager at the dealer. They charged $618 for labor for the fuel pump & fuel filter!!!! I expected the $50 fuel filter and $350 pump. What's the $6.50 for BRAKE CLEANER!? He said they cleaned the fuel tank... w/ BRAKE CLEANER??
I asked him how many hours they charged for the work. His response: we don't charge hours, it's a fixed price per-job.
I reply, this job should have only taken 21/2 hours, are you charging $250/hr labor? His response: where do you get that time. I replied: BMW forums. His reply: that's not the offical 'book'. I reply: I've done fuel pump changes myself in under 2 hours. His response: the price is non-negotiable. Then he says he'll look up the book times just for me. He comes back with 4.1 hours to change the pump, 1.7 hours to drain fuel, and .4 hours for the filter... 6.2 hours. I'm not an idiot (other than taking my car to the dealer), I know he basically divided $618 by $100/hr to pull those #s.
I'm writing to BMW USA, but that's going to provide little satisfaction.

Well, yeah, don't tell him some random people on the intertubes told you it should take this much. Go to another dealer and have them print out an estimate for the job. Or take the flat-rate code off of your invoice to another dealer and ask them how much they'd charge. Or, take it up with your credit card company.