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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 07-02-2011, 07:50 AM   #1
Adam@Euro-Spec
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Girlfriend buying me a present what would you get? Optic/Weponlight

So our 2 year anniversary is coming up soon and she wants to buy me some gun stuff. I don't really want her to spend more then $300-400 so I've come down to deciding between the following combos:

Option 1:
Streamlight TLR-2S
Primary Arms Micro Dot

Option 2:
Streamlight TLR-1S
Vortex Sparc

Option 3:
Something else you would prefer please explain.

The red dot is going on a S&W M&P 15-22 so I don't need anything high end or anything my life will have to depend on. Just for fun only.
The streamlight will be going on my sig p226 which I keep in my nightstand for HD.

I guess I am having the hardest time deciding if I need or will ever use the laser. Or the extra $120 is a waste. And if the Vortex Sparc is that much better than the Primary Arms. The sparc does have a lifetime warranty. But on AR15.com everyone seems to also rave about Primary Arms customer service. The Sparc has a NV feature which I'm not sure i'll ever use.

Any input to help me decide or experience with any of the equipment will be helpful.

TIA
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:41 PM   #2
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I'll take sex for $1000, Alex.









Cause pretty soon you won't be getting any.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:13 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by BMW_Matt View Post
I'll take sex for $1000, Alex.

Cause pretty soon you won't be getting any.

He said girlfriend, not wife, so he's still good in the sex department for awhile.


I have not used the Vortex, but I have used the Primary Arms. It's a solid little red dot and should be great for the .22.

If it makes any difference to you, the Vortex has a 2moa dot and the Primary Arms is a 4moa.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BMW_Matt View Post
I'll take sex for $1000, Alex.









Cause pretty soon you won't be getting any.
Haha, I get that whenever I want. No problems there.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Serbonze View Post
He said girlfriend, not wife, so he's still good in the sex department for awhile.


I have not used the Vortex, but I have used the Primary Arms. It's a solid little red dot and should be great for the .22.

If it makes any difference to you, the Vortex has a 2moa dot and the Primary Arms is a 4moa.
All the reviews have been good on the primary arms and on the vortex. The biggest differences I can tell are warranty, and mounts that are included. I'm really just leaning more and more towards the Primary Arms cause I don't know if I see the value of the extra $100.
Are killflashes very useful for only range use or is it not worth the extra $20.

Thanks for all the responses.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:54 PM   #5
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Haha, I get that whenever I want. No problems there.



All the reviews have been good on the primary arms and on the vortex. The biggest differences I can tell are warranty, and mounts that are included. I'm really just leaning more and more towards the Primary Arms cause I don't know if I see the value of the extra $100.
Are killflashes very useful for only range use or is it not worth the extra $20.

Thanks for all the responses.
You still need to buy a mount for the Primary Arms, but they offer discounted versions during checkout. I opted for the American Defense QD mount.

Killflash is really quite useless for almost everyone. It's used so that another person won't see the reflection off of your optic to pinpoint you, and then kill you.
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:09 PM   #6
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Killflash- Pass on it. They do nothing that any typical gun owner would need it for, since they're designed to prevent the enemy from seeing light flash or "glint" from light reflecting on the objective lens. Shooting with one on makes your optical picture darker.

Light/Laser- The problem with rail mounted lasers is that they have a lot of off-set and you need to zero them at a certain distance. Ideally, at 7-11yds, which is the typical pistol engagement distance range for most lethal encounters involving a gun. Less than your zero range will result in the bullet striking "high", or above the laser dot. Shooting over that will result in a "low" shot. This is the problem with lasers like that. The other option is to zero it at the maximum distance you will employ the weapon in training and on the range. Say, 25yds. Then you need to remember your offset, so that when you shoot, you do not shoot high. Considering that your offset on a TLR-2 will be ~2", a high head shot could result in a miss if you don't mind your offset. This a common task that requires learning with a rifle when using a red dot sight, and we often have to pound it into peoples' heads about how you need to account for the offset when you are zeroed at 50yds and you're shooting a target at 10yds and you're aiming for the face but keep popping the throat of the target. The problem with rail mounted lasers is that they are counter-intuitive to red dot sights since they typically work in the opposite direction. Now, the alternative is getting a Crimson Trace laser handguard setup. They are generally straight along the boreline, so the need to correct for offset really isn't an issue.
Having said all of that, you will likely not use your laser enough to justify the coin spent on it. They're not cheap. The light you will use a lot, but the laser you won't. I bought a Streamlight M6 eons ago under the belief that I would use it a lot. I had it on my Beretta M9 when I was in the Army, and I never used it on the pistol. I used the light, but not the laser. I did use the laser once while mounded on my M16 to visually designate a target, but lasers on rifles are an entirely different ball of wax.
There has been a significant proliferation of lasers on CCW weapons, primarily due to more and more gun companies selling models equipped with Crimson Trace laser grips. I would much more recommend going that route than a rail-mounted laser. At least that way, there are holsters available that will hold your weapon. The other issue with the CCW use is that the lasers are best employed on micro pistols like the Ruger LCP and small frame revolvers- basically handguns that have poor sights where a laser is an upgrade. On a Sig P226, you have good sights.
Lasers also suck for shooting moving objects. You have a tendency to get sucked into watching the dot and ignoring the actual target. It's much easier to use sights for moving targets.

I would more recommend that you get the Aimpoint PRO, which you can find for $400. Have your girlfriend spend the money on a better optic. Later on, when you get an AR, you can put the PRO on the AR and get a cheaper optic for M&P15-22. This way, you aren't the one footing the bill for the more expensive optic. It will save you money down the line.

Otherwise, get the TLR-1S and the Primary Arms optic. The SPARC is a good buy for a .22, but it IS a .22 so why not save $100? Or not. I guess it all depends on what she's willing to pay. If you still feel the need for the laser, get a set of Crimson Trace grips.
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Last edited by Reedo302; 07-02-2011 at 11:16 PM.
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Old 07-02-2011, 11:55 PM   #7
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I ended up ordering the following:
Primary Arms Micro Dot w/ QD mount
Streamlight TLR-1S- decided against the laser, don't think its necessary and probably would never get used.
Primary Arms Green Weapon Laser(I got this for fun and figured I could mount it to my m&p 15-22 for shits and to mess around with).
Magpul Angled Forward Grip in FDE(still might buy a traditional Vertical forward grip to see which one I prefer)
12 Streamlight batteries(laser takes them too)
Few extra batteries for the dot.
Magpul B.A.D Lever(came for free with order...don't really know what its for but oh well ha i'll learn)

I also just got my LaRue Mount and Surefire G2 in the mail
Ill post pictures of everything when it comes in. No ETA on the mp 15-22 in FDE though
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:32 AM   #8
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Magpul B.A.D Lever(came for free with order...don't really know what its for but oh well ha i'll learn)
I run BAD levers on all of my rifles. They are a fantastic option, supposing that you employ them correctly.

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Old 07-03-2011, 06:51 AM   #9
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Unfortunately, the BAD will not work with the 15-22 without extensive modifications. Check out the following 15-22 board, you will find a ton of great information.

For what it's worth, I'll happily take the BAD lever off of your hands. It's been on my list of things to buy for awhile.
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Old 07-04-2011, 07:12 PM   #10
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Well so far I have had great customer service with primary arms. I was half a sleep when I ordered the other night and reversed the shipping and billing addresses. Sent them an email late saturday night. Thinking I wouldnt get a response until tuesday because of weekend and it being a holiday. But about 12 on sunday I got an email saying they couldn't change it in their system but canceled my order so I could re order. ordered late lsat night and got an email at 11am that my order was packed and shipped and sent me the tracking number. Looking forward to getting everything this week.

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