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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 07-02-2011, 10:40 AM   #1
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"Cool story, bro!" moment.

Before coming on here, I never really gave it much thought to show a CCW permit along with license and insurance... I always showed it when asked, "Do you have any weapons or firearms?" Something I read on here before gave me the window to keeping a speeding ticket off my record. By showing the CCW permit along with the license and insurance, he let me off fairly easy and let me stay eligible for driving school.

When he handed everything back to me, he said something that made my day.

"So far, you've done everything to a T. Keys in your lap, not being a smartass, respectful, and even went the extra step to show me you carry. Hell... even when you changed lanes, you used your blinker. Do you really drive a BMW?"

I died laughing.

Moral of the story? Show your CCW permit!
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Old 07-02-2011, 04:40 PM   #2
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I that big boy.

How fast were you going?
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:02 PM   #3
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I only show my GWL (in Georgia it's a Georgia Weapons License not CCW) if I anticipate the officer seeing my weapon which is generally concealed. Not required here and while many, if not most, LEO in Georgia have no problem with armed citizens, some do and the problems can be large if I happen to run into one of them such as this guy http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/...p?f=36&t=49871 (Cliffs, gun pointed at his head after showing a GWL and letting the officer know he was armed during a stop for speeding). Plenty of other LEO's that have no respect for the law, are unaware of State v. Jones or any other case law or who choose to ignore the laws in the name of "officer safety."

I am far from a "basher" or LEO's, but if I only know of 2 responses from officers who are told a person is carrying:
Those that say good for you (or similar) and those that immediately escalate the situation and violate people's rights.

The first will understand if he happens to see it, the second is going to end up costing his city money from my lawsuit if he does.
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Old 07-02-2011, 05:07 PM   #4
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I that big boy.

How fast were you going?
57 in a 25. It used to be a 45 zone, but for some reason, they dropped the limit down to 25. The nearest road construction is at least a mile from where I got pulled over... The lane I was in was about to end and I'll be damned if I was going to be stuck behind some slow turds going 15 MPH. Seriously. 15 MPH on a four-lane highway. My impatience cost me a couple minutes and a couple hundred bucks.

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Originally Posted by Wraisil View Post
I only show my GWL (in Georgia it's a Georgia Weapons License not CCW) if I anticipate the officer seeing my weapon which is generally concealed. Not required here and while many, if not most, LEO in Georgia have no problem with armed citizens, some do and the problems can be large if I happen to run into one of them such as this guy http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/...p?f=36&t=49871 (Cliffs, gun pointed at his head after showing a GWL and letting the officer know he was armed during a stop for speeding). Plenty of other LEO's that have no respect for the law, are unaware of State v. Jones or any other case law or who choose to ignore the laws in the name of "officer safety."

I am far from a "basher" or LEO's, but if I only know of 2 responses from officers who are told a person is carrying:
Those that say good for you (or similar) and those that immediately escalate the situation and violate people's rights.

The first will understand if he happens to see it, the second is going to end up costing his city money from my lawsuit if he does.
I don't say anything. I just simply hand him the pistol permit. I don't say, "I have a gun" or anything. I just include the permit with my license and insurance card. They understand. They simply took my pistol until the stop was completed and handed it back. No troubles at all.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:00 PM   #5
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Sorry but that's bad advice

If you don't live in a state that requires it, don't volunteer that you are carrying.

I'll post my reasons later.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:22 PM   #6
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I'm with JJ. I wouldn't even volunteer that unless asked.
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Old 07-02-2011, 06:30 PM   #7
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I'm with JJ. I wouldn't even volunteer that unless asked.
Hm. I'll have to dig around in Alabama's laws to see if we're required to tell or not. I have the feeling that we're not.

No matter the case, the officer was appreciative of it and cut me some slack.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:20 PM   #8
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I'm with JJ. I wouldn't even volunteer that unless asked.
I'd go even further, if asked if I was carrying or if weapons were in the car, I'd say nothing or state that nothing illegal is in the car or on my person. No requirement to answer the cop

What I have on my person, in my car, where I'm going or coming from is none of the cops business.
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Hm. I'll have to dig around in Alabama's laws to see if we're required to tell or not. I have the feeling that we're not.

No matter the case, the officer was appreciative of it and cut me some slack.
No duty to inform in your state.

If you volunteer that you're carrying you might get out of a ticket or you might be yanked from the car at gunpoint, have your person and car illegally searched, have your firearm taken from you or a rookie cop hearing "gun" puts a couple rounds into your back.

Realize it or not.... You are trading or giving up something to the cop, that's why you might have escaped a ticket. You are giving up your right to privacy and unnecessary searches. Cops love when people do that.

Informing the cop about your weapon makes noone safer, I feel it can escalate things and make it more dangerous.
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Old 07-02-2011, 07:24 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Wraisil View Post
I only show my GWL (in Georgia it's a Georgia Weapons License not CCW) if I anticipate the officer seeing my weapon which is generally concealed. Not required here and while many, if not most, LEO in Georgia have no problem with armed citizens, some do and the problems can be large if I happen to run into one of them such as this guy http://www.georgiapacking.org/forum/...p?f=36&t=49871 (Cliffs, gun pointed at his head after showing a GWL and letting the officer know he was armed during a stop for speeding). Plenty of other LEO's that have no respect for the law, are unaware of State v. Jones or any other case law or who choose to ignore the laws in the name of "officer safety."

I am far from a "basher" or LEO's, but if I only know of 2 responses from officers who are told a person is carrying:
Those that say good for you (or similar) and those that immediately escalate the situation and violate people's rights.

The first will understand if he happens to see it, the second is going to end up costing his city money from my lawsuit if he does.
This.
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Old 07-03-2011, 12:09 AM   #10
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I'd go even further, if asked if I was carrying or if weapons were in the car, I'd say nothing or state that nothing illegal is in the car or on my person. No requirement to answer the cop

What I have on my person, in my car, where I'm going or coming from is none of the cops business.
The Supreme Court has upheld in previous rulings that evasive answers can give officers enough to establish not only a stop, but also possibly a frisk. Realistically, it's better to lie and just say that you don't, provided that there is no evidence to the contrary that can work against you. Here's why-

If I ask you about weapons in the vehicle, and you say that you have "nothing illegal in the vehicle", that doesn't tell me that you don't have any weapons. You will likely know that I will pick up on it and start prying further. If I heard that, I could make the assumption that the answer is yes, and then I can demand to see your carry permit, which at that point, by state law, you'd be mandated to show me the permit. (although, MN State Supreme Court/MNSSC has mandated that officers need reasonable articulable suspicion to expand the scope of the stop, so I would need a reason to ask if there was a weapon in the vehicle, but that's all state-dependent)
Here's the thing- Cops are fact finders and we're nosy. I hear someone dancing around a question like that, and red lights and sirens start going off in my left hemisphere and the hamster gets on the wheel and starts running (or in my case power-walking; don't ask-he's just lazy ). Why does it raise alarms? Because it's the same thing the hoodrats say when they're all involved in something and they don't want to get into trouble, but also don't want to rat out their idiot friends who stole the items/broke into the car/started the fight/etc. My point is, you've now provided reasonable suspicion to the officer to expand the scope of the contact. Saying "nothing illegal..." when that was not the question asked can be construed as being evasive. Evasive answers have continuously been accepted by SCOTUS as catalysts for developing reasonable suspicion. With reasonable suspicion can come more invasive inquires, searches and seizures on differing levels. All of which are a pain your ass. Because it involves a weapon or the assumption of a weapon, a pat-down/frisk may be justifiable for officer safety (also laid out in Terry v. Ohio decision).

Keep in mind that what may be considered illegal and unconstitutional is neither if upheld in court. This is why it's always a good idea to get together with a good attorney in your own state and ask for their advice on the matter. The NRA often has contacts with gun-friendly attorneys that you can hire to counsel you on the best decision to make in your own state. What carries true for one state is not universal. What may be illegal in Pennsylvania may be okay in Minnesota or Wisconsin or Illinois.


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If you volunteer that you're carrying you might get out of a ticket or you might be yanked from the car at gunpoint, have your person and car illegally searched, have your firearm taken from you or a rookie cop hearing "gun" puts a couple rounds into your back.
Give me an example of when this has happened. Seriously, this is akin to the liberal anti-gun hysterics and their belief that guns randomly go off, killing school children at random like bored rednecks in a cage full of squirrels.

Unless you happen to just shout "I got a gat, motherfucker!" and don't inject the word "permit" into the sentence, this is not a realistic scenario.





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Realize it or not.... You are trading or giving up something to the cop, that's why you might have escaped a ticket. You are giving up your right to privacy and unnecessary searches. Cops love when people do that.
I was just sitting in the squad room after briefing last week when we got into a good discussion over how much we love to stop people and try and trick them into waiving random rights like the 4th Amendment and 5th Amendment protections. Just the other day I stopped 9yo on a bike and searched his GI Joe collection for bomb making materials to make a nuclear suitcase bomb. Used the old National Security justification for that one.

Cops love it when people waive their rights when they are doing something wrong, like dealing meth or have an 8-ball of heroin in their vehicle. We don't go around looking for random decent citizens to let us search their vehicles. Unless they're circus clowns, because searching the car of a circus clown would be really fun and full of surprises.


Ultimately, if someone wants to make it known that they have a weapon in the vehicle, it's their decision. Nay-it's their RIGHT to do so. Chastising someone for exercising that right is the same as chastising someone for refusing to waive their rights in the same situation. That's what freedom is all about. That's also why we live in a REPUBLIC- we have laws that limit or outline what is and is not permissible, and those laws are available for all to read and know.
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:48 AM   #11
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Reedos post completely solidifies my point on why you should never talk to cops. Theyll immediately throw you into the same category as a "gang banging hood rat" simply for avoiding their unnecessary and ridiculous questions

No matter how nice they are off duty or how many times they have given people "breaks", as REEDO repeatedly stated over and over. Cops are paranoid, answer seeking (even when non of their business), nosey fishermen.

Their main focus is fishing for enough reason (made up in their heads) to search you, scold you, fine you or arrest you. Every question they ask, every request they put forth and every move they make is an attempt to have you self incriminate yourself or justify the officer escalating the encounter.

So what if I do have a gun in my car? Is that illegal? Lemme guess... "officer safety" allows you to pull a person out, search, seize and harass.

Sorry REEDO, you seem like a cool guy, but also a typical cop

Please quote that USSC case. As a cop, hell as a person you are allowed to ask me anything you want... I don't have to answer.

It's none of your business if I have a gun on me, a dildo on me or a pack of gum on me
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-03-2011, 09:28 AM   #12
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Give me an example of when this has happened. Seriously, this is akin to the liberal anti-gun hysterics and their belief that guns randomly go off, killing school children at random like bored rednecks in a cage full of squirrels.

Unless you happen to just shout "I got a gat, mother****er!" and don't inject the word "permit" into the sentence, this is not a realistic scenario.
.
I can give you dozens of examples of this mentality. Cops tend to be paranoid, trigger happy "shoot first and investigate later" persons that will base their actions on "Getting home safely to THEIR family at night"

Honestly, I'm not sure where the illusion that a police officers job is dangerous comes from. It's not dangerous. In fact, compared to several other careers out there, the danger of police work barely rates on the scale at all... It also as lightyears ahead more dangerous to be someone interacting with a cop, than to be the cop themselves.


http://jonathanturley.org/2011/05/28...lice-shooting/

http://my.sportbikeclub.com/_Cop-sho...309/46089.html

http://www.krqe.com/dpp/news/crime/a...in-back-by-cop

http://www.tri-cityherald.com/2011/0...-shooting.html

http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/...-92666574.html

http://dimewars.com/Video/Undercover...ac&activetab=1

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-504083_1...57-504083.html

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2010...hooting-vegas/
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-03-2011, 01:30 PM   #13
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Old 07-03-2011, 01:54 PM   #14
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Not at all. It's is just a common mentality among police officers. Putting even that aside, lets just say all cops are inherently "good" and "just". 100% of every police officer on earth is innately programmed to only spread justice, fairness and equal treatment for all men and women.

You're still going to have mistakes, rookies, poor training, accidents, frustration and cops having a bad day. You are human just like I am. There is no way anyone can put a global message out there saying "Always do this or that in a police encounter". That being said, the general public doesn't know if he is dealing with an officer that just was awarded the "Best human on earth" award, or an officer that just got off from his 5th suspension for excessive force on the job, beating his wife at home and lost his savings account on a sports bet gone south.

As people, we need to treat, judge and interact in the best manner possible to protect ourselves. Sorry, but in general speak, cops are not your friends and they are certainly not looking out for our best interest.

The problem is that all police are put on the same pedestal, when in reality you have delinquents with barely a high school degree patrolling the streets with guns and a badge in every major city. Those that trust and back up the police usually see police for what they want them to be and are unaware of their own rights. Those that hold police accountable and keep them in check typically are the ones that know police for what they can be (good and bad) and are aware of their rights.
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Old 07-03-2011, 05:43 PM   #15
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None of those links have anything to do with CCW/CHL owners being accidentally shot while presenting their permits...but don't let that stop you from your usual conspiracy theories and cop bashing (yeah yeah I know, you're very pro law enforcement)
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:05 PM   #16
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None of those links have anything to do with CCW/CHL owners being accidentally shot while presenting their permits...but don't let that stop you from your usual conspiracy theories and cop bashing (yeah yeah I know, you're very pro law enforcement)
did you read my link, I can give you more but in that one a permit holder divulged that he was armed and ended up having his rights violated and a gun pointed at his head for no reason what-so-ever. It does happen... thankfully it is a rarity though as most cops are good guys.
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Old 07-03-2011, 06:09 PM   #17
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My comment was about JJ's link...he's trying to prove a point using false information
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Old 07-03-2011, 08:57 PM   #18
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My comment was about JJ's link...he's trying to prove a point using false information
I could post links to stories with that exact scenario but I chose the above links for a specific reason. It shows a mentality and history of common action with police officers. Sure you might encounter an officer with no issue but you also might encounter one of the thousands of encounters like these: http://www.injusticeeverywhere.com

I'm not going to explain it any further as I would assume anyone with a basic sense of logic could identify what those were from mylinks.

I'm very pro-police, probably more than a good majority of this forum. Being pro-rights and asking people to hold officers accountable, not blindly follow their authority does not make me anti police. Again something very simple that one shouldn't have to explain.

Anyone that views my posts as anti police is completely missing the point here
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I agree with JonJon.

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Old 07-03-2011, 09:01 PM   #19
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Sorry but that's bad advice

If you don't live in a state that requires it, don't volunteer that you are carrying.

I'll post my reasons later.
Yet u have no issues with a$$$holes in Cali showing off carrying in Starbucks


They are attention sluts


Bored ones


So I find what you say hypocritical


I don't agree with jonjon
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E46Fanatics - the Honda community of gun owners. Keep staying classy, I'm sure you all are going to be excellent examples of how to keep gun rights from being infringed. :facepalm:
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Old 07-03-2011, 09:19 PM   #20
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Yet u have no issues with a$$$holes in Cali showing off carrying in Starbucks


They are attention sluts


Bored ones


So I find what you say hypocritical


I don't agree with jonjon
Not really seeing where you are going here?

I support Open Carry and I support people engaged in lawful activity. Whether they OC out of comfort, to make a statement or just to show off, I support it. It's their right and legal

Open Carry in CA is legal. CA has no duty to inform. People
Might CHOOSE to OC or CC, changes nothing. Where is your issue?

Christ, at least do some basic research before entering thread in a poor attempt to join the discussion
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