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Gun Talk
Are you a gun fanatic as well? If so, you'll want to talk to other owners about what you own in this forum.

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Old 07-28-2011, 01:44 AM   #1
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how do you think the cop handled this situation?

http://www.break.com/index/one-good-cop-2086255

any input on the situation or how the cop handled it? we'll never get open carry here in chicago, so i cant relate
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Old 07-28-2011, 06:11 AM   #2
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Let me ask you something....suppose I replaced the gun with an Iphone....how do you think the cop handled the situation? Being raped while given compliments is still rape. Open carrying is legal. Carrying an iphone is legal. The gun was holstered. The citizen was not committing a crime. The officer had absolutely no reason to stop him. Now, some might say well "a person might have called it in and the police were sent to check it out." Well, first, the person who called it in should be ticketed for wasting a policeman's time. Second, the dispatcher should be fired for not asking appropriate questions to see if a squad car NEEDS to be dispatched. Third, ignorance of the general public (as well as police) does not a criminal make.

All in all, police in states with CCW and open carry should be EXPERTLY tested and 10 times RE-tested on gun laws, so that honest citizens do NOT need to be treated like criminals, and have to spend 30 minutes a day explaining to a cop as to why they are carrying a weapon, which is 110% legal, and carried in a 100% legal manner.

On a side note, the area where this happened, it is actually LAW for the officer to check if the chamber is empty (as well as the magazine). The gun can not be loaded, or even cruiser loaded. That is a violation of the 2nd, but let's skip that for a second. How many criminals in CA do you think carry their guns in a holster OPENLY? Probably ZERO. Maybe the cops should take a ride over to South Central or Compton and check to see if their chambers are empty as well....
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Old 07-28-2011, 08:52 AM   #3
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:25 AM   #4
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http://www.break.com/index/one-good-cop-2086255

any input on the situation or how the cop handled it? we'll never get open carry here in chicago, so i cant relate
feels like we're never going to get ANY kind of carry in my lifetime. Wisconsin just came to their senses, now we're the only ones left.

I think the cop behaved politely and respectfully even though the stop was unwarranted. The gun holder having the typical 'imma film everything for youtube so i can disrupt the peace legally' mentality, but whatever, he wasn't doing anything illegal.

If a leo gets a call from dispatch to check out a guy walking with a rifle, what's he gonna do, say "no" ? All in all ended way better than i expected. Seems like the video author is a local celebrity among leo's lol
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:49 AM   #5
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Let me ask you something....suppose I replaced the gun with an Iphone....how do you think the cop handled the situation? Being raped while given compliments is still rape. Open carrying is legal. Carrying an iphone is legal. The gun was holstered. The citizen was not committing a crime. The officer had absolutely no reason to stop him. Now, some might say well "a person might have called it in and the police were sent to check it out." Well, first, the person who called it in should be ticketed for wasting a policeman's time. Second, the dispatcher should be fired for not asking appropriate questions to see if a squad car NEEDS to be dispatched. Third, ignorance of the general public (as well as police) does not a criminal make.

All in all, police in states with CCW and open carry should be EXPERTLY tested and 10 times RE-tested on gun laws, so that honest citizens do NOT need to be treated like criminals, and have to spend 30 minutes a day explaining to a cop as to why they are carrying a weapon, which is 110% legal, and carried in a 100% legal manner.

On a side note, the area where this happened, it is actually LAW for the officer to check if the chamber is empty (as well as the magazine). The gun can not be loaded, or even cruiser loaded. That is a violation of the 2nd, but let's skip that for a second. How many criminals in CA do you think carry their guns in a holster OPENLY? Probably ZERO. Maybe the cops should take a ride over to South Central or Compton and check to see if their chambers are empty as well....
The first paragraph you make a scenario based on how the weapon carrier was "raped", but the third paragraph you make it known that in the area where it happened the officer is required to check the weapon. So the officer did nothing wrong, yet you make it a point to take a jab at police officers and his "rights". When in fact his rights were NOT violated. Also your first paragraph you assume that everyone carrying a visible weapon has good intentions. Not always the case. Some individual was worried. Maybe the individual was acting suspicious? It is the officer's job to check it out. Who knows how many situations where crime was deterred simply because an officer presence became known.

The ant-police atmosphere on the forum can be quite irrational. You carry a weapon to defend yourself. Many police officers become cops to defend the public and uphold the laws, ultimately hoping to stop crime. It seems like we should be on the same side. Law abiding citizens and cops combating the criminals that threaten society.
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Old 07-28-2011, 11:37 AM   #6
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All I will say is this- only idiots openly carry unloaded guns. Good way for a thug to come up from behind, not see a magazine in the well, and then jack you. You might as well go buy a sign that says "I can't defend myself!" A law allowing open carrying of only an unloaded weapon is frickin' stupid.
This is another extension of people who are so caught up in trying to exercise their rights that they forget about the common sense of what they are doing. We see it all the time on college campuses with student protesters who try and push the 1st Amendment too far and make themselves look like wackos. We see it with certain religious protesters who go WAAYY too far. In the end, yeah, it may be your right, but that doesn't make it smart to do. It's a perfect example of the phrase, "just because you can, doesn't mean that you should".
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:16 PM   #7
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All I will say is this- only idiots openly carry unloaded guns. Good way for a thug to come up from behind, not see a magazine in the well, and then jack you. You might as well go buy a sign that says "I can't defend myself!" A law allowing open carrying of only an unloaded weapon is frickin' stupid.
This is another extension of people who are so caught up in trying to exercise their rights that they forget about the common sense of what they are doing. We see it all the time on college campuses with student protesters who try and push the 1st Amendment too far and make themselves look like wackos. We see it with certain religious protesters who go WAAYY too far. In the end, yeah, it may be your right, but that doesn't make it smart to do. It's a perfect example of the phrase, "just because you can, doesn't mean that you should".
I have to agree... When I go on hikes up in the Pacific Northwest I always carry my handgun open in a holster and my AR15 all ready to go with armor piercing rounds and 40mm...

I swear I am counting on catching Big Foot so I can collect the $1,000,000.
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Old 07-28-2011, 01:36 PM   #8
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I have to agree... When I go on hikes up in the Pacific Northwest I always carry my handgun open in a holster and my AR15 all ready to go with armor piercing rounds and 40mm...

I swear I am counting on catching Big Foot so I can collect the $1,000,000.
HE EXISTS!!

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Old 07-29-2011, 12:27 PM   #9
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Stupid to walk around carrying an unloaded gun. I don't care if it is your right. It is stupid and you are asking for trouble. Very nice police officer.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:32 PM   #10
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Let me ask you something....suppose I replaced the gun with an Iphone....how do you think the cop handled the situation? Being raped while given compliments is still rape. Open carrying is legal. Carrying an iphone is legal. The gun was holstered. The citizen was not committing a crime. The officer had absolutely no reason to stop him. Now, some might say well "a person might have called it in and the police were sent to check it out." Well, first, the person who called it in should be ticketed for wasting a policeman's time. Second, the dispatcher should be fired for not asking appropriate questions to see if a squad car NEEDS to be dispatched. Third, ignorance of the general public (as well as police) does not a criminal make.

All in all, police in states with CCW and open carry should be EXPERTLY tested and 10 times RE-tested on gun laws, so that honest citizens do NOT need to be treated like criminals, and have to spend 30 minutes a day explaining to a cop as to why they are carrying a weapon, which is 110% legal, and carried in a 100% legal manner.

On a side note, the area where this happened, it is actually LAW for the officer to check if the chamber is empty (as well as the magazine). The gun can not be loaded, or even cruiser loaded. That is a violation of the 2nd, but let's skip that for a second. How many criminals in CA do you think carry their guns in a holster OPENLY? Probably ZERO. Maybe the cops should take a ride over to South Central or Compton and check to see if their chambers are empty as well....
Being raped? The police officer handled it how it should have been handled. I don't care if it is the guy's rights, there is no reason to walk around with an unloaded gun. He did it just to prove a point. A gun is a weapon and an unloaded one is pointless. You are asking for trouble. There is no way the average person would no whether or not the gun is loaded. If I saw someone with a gun I would probably call the police too. We aren't cowboys and have no reason to open carry unless you are law enforcement. I am all for CCW if all laws are obeyed. The guy was not treated like a criminal. The officer was very polite.
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Old 07-29-2011, 12:34 PM   #11
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All I will say is this- only idiots openly carry unloaded guns. Good way for a thug to come up from behind, not see a magazine in the well, and then jack you. You might as well go buy a sign that says "I can't defend myself!" A law allowing open carrying of only an unloaded weapon is frickin' stupid.
This is another extension of people who are so caught up in trying to exercise their rights that they forget about the common sense of what they are doing. We see it all the time on college campuses with student protesters who try and push the 1st Amendment too far and make themselves look like wackos. We see it with certain religious protesters who go WAAYY too far. In the end, yeah, it may be your right, but that doesn't make it smart to do. It's a perfect example of the phrase, "just because you can, doesn't mean that you should".
Exactly! And it is people like this that cause us to lose our rights.
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Old 07-29-2011, 01:53 PM   #12
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The problem is that when a situation occurs where something was legitimately fvcked up (like the Canton, OH mess--definitely not good) involving law enforcement, people develop this knee-jerk reaction every time something happens. It doesn't dissipate either. Instead, it causes people to get more and more reactionary to any type of encounter, regardless of the justification or legality. There develops this increasingly rapid canonization of anyone who attempts to challenge the system and "fight the power" (which I think ironically begins to parallel along the same process that occurs to all these hippie and anarchist protesters who start riots at every political convention and claim they were just fighting the system and exercising their rights when they got thumped or tear-gassed by riot police, but that's beside the point).
I believe that there needs to be a decisive line drawn on how one should examine these situations, because it seems like some people have become too emotionally invested and lost the ability to critically analyze scenarios and then come up with conclusions that are objectively reasonable. I'm not saying that I don't support carry and possession of guns, but I also believe in a respect for laws that are established and trying to make a change through the political process. I really don't believe the Thoreau concept of Civil Disobedience works as much as it used to.
The US is a Republic as set forth by Article 4 Section 4 of the US Constitution. A Republic is a form of government based on laws. We have laws that protect freedoms and liberties, and we have laws that restrict freedoms and liberties and set forth penalties for violations. It's okay to be against certain laws, but people need to remember to not kill the messenger. If you disagree with a law allowing a LEO to check if a weapon is unloaded, you should be mad a State Senator or Representative, not the LEO that is enforcing it.
But that's just how I see it. YMMV
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:44 PM   #13
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Exactly! And it is people like this that cause us to lose our rights.
These people are standing up for your rights and you don't even realize it, lol.

REEDO, yes police are allowed in CA to perform an unloaded check. They don't HAVE TO but they are allowed, that's fine (for now).

The problem is the harrassment and attitude towards OC'ers. Do the check, dont harass them, talk down to them, tell them to cover up or ask for ID. It's legal, so as you stated you are for lawful actions, your post is hypocritical. You also state that Open Carry is terrible from a tactical perspective. Please explain how that makes ANY sense whatsoever when you and all LEO open carry every day.

The real issue here is that CA goes to extremes to disallow people to carry at all and protect themselves. That's the issue.
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Old 07-29-2011, 03:52 PM   #14
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On another note... If the check is being done for "safety", that officer created a situation 10 times as dangerous in disarming him.

He was ignorant to the handling and operation of the firearm, fumbled with the slide and swept the carrier, passing traffic and himself in trying to clear it.

That cop could've easily killed himself or someone else.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:18 PM   #15
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All I will say is this- only idiots openly carry unloaded guns. Good way for a thug to come up from behind, not see a magazine in the well, and then jack you. You might as well go buy a sign that says "I can't defend myself!" A law allowing open carrying of only an unloaded weapon is frickin' stupid.
This is another extension of people who are so caught up in trying to exercise their rights that they forget about the common sense of what they are doing. We see it all the time on college campuses with student protesters who try and push the 1st Amendment too far and make themselves look like wackos. We see it with certain religious protesters who go WAAYY too far. In the end, yeah, it may be your right, but that doesn't make it smart to do. It's a perfect example of the phrase, "just because you can, doesn't mean that you should".
100% agree with you. Sure, you could exercise the limited right you get under the CA provision but why would you? Carrying an unloaded firearm just makes you more of a target without giving you much benefit. But none of that is the LEOs fault.

I think the officer handled the situation quite well - he acted within CA law, and was extremely respectful while doing so.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:45 PM   #16
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The problem is the harassment and attitude towards OC'ers. Do the check, dont harass them, talk down to them, tell them to cover up or ask for ID. It's legal, so as you stated you are for lawful actions, your post is hypocritical. You also state that Open Carry is terrible from a tactical perspective. Please explain how that makes ANY sense whatsoever when you and all LEO open carry every day.
It's open to interpretation. What you call harassment, come could call ensuring that the law is being adhered to. Once typically can't just look at a gun and know it's unloaded. In order to ensure that the gun is unloaded, you must visually and physically inspect it. Range Officer training 101. There was nothing illegal done, so how is my post hypocritical? If I missed something, please let me know. Please show me a legal brief that was filed and substantiated in direct relation to this case that shows that that particular officer was not adhering to the law.

As far as tactical perspectives, I can explain it by highlighting the difference between a CIA operative and a Soldier. CIA operatives work in covert methods. Soldiers work visibly and overtly. It's the scalpel vs sword juxtaposition, in that one is precision and surgical, and one is just blunt force and presence. Inasmuch, you need to look at the totality of the circumstances and assess tactical advantages and disadvantages. The uniform police officer is already marked as a highly visible target because of a badge and a uniform. People know uniform police officers have guns. We also have ballistic vests and a bat belt full of goodies that gives us away. The tactical advantage is with our numbers and presence, as well as our immediate access. We generate our tactical advantages through backup officers, tactical positioning (back to the wall, etc), high situational awareness, and purposeful operations. If you're familiar with the human states of readiness color levels of green, amber, red and black, you can further simplify it. A patrol officer spends his/her whole shift in the Amber state of readiness. When something happens, we go to Red phase and operate there as long as necessary until we either overload and go to Black and shut down, or we can de-escalate and go back to Amber.
In contrast, the average person likely walks around in Green phase. They are not on alert and there is generally no significant level of paranoia or heightened continuous situational awareness. When the average citizen sits down at a McDonalds to eat, they don't intentionally position themselves against a wall and monitor and scrutinize every single person that enters and orders at the counter. They likely aren't paying a lot of attention to what everyone around them are doing with their hands. They aren't also simultaneously monitoring the parking lot. For the most part, they're normal and at ease. When you are at ease, you are much more prone to surprises and being on the downside of what is known as the "Reactionary Curve". It's action vs reaction. When you're in that state, you usually sit on the reaction side. You aren't actively putting yourself into situations like a uniformed cop would be. As a result, you will find yourself on the disadvantaged end of the reactionary curve. The best chance that you have to reduce that disadvantage is to make yourself not appear as a threat. Almost as if it goes back to the old Roman addage of "pour honey in your enemy's ear and then stab them in the back". Often times, treachery will much more effective than bravado. Why identify yourself as a target right away when you can make them think you're not a threat and then catch them by surprise? Turn the element of surprise in your favor. This is how we operate when we work undercover. The same is how people should operate when carrying. This is also how a vast majority of cops carry off duty. Of the hundreds of cops I know, none carry openly off duty. The reason is because of the mentality that we do not want to identify ourselves as targets. When you're in uniform, you're already a target because of the uniform.


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On another note... If the check is being done for "safety", that officer created a situation 10 times as dangerous in disarming him.

He was ignorant to the handling and operation of the firearm, fumbled with the slide and swept the carrier, passing traffic and himself in trying to clear it.

That cop could've easily killed himself or someone else.
And you could have killed people every time you got in your car and drove and rolled through a stop sign without coming to a complete stop and pausing and looking both ways. But you haven't.
Larry Vickers has a set of safety rules in his classes that he refers to as his "real world" safety rules. He wants people to understand that there is a difference between the 4 Rules of Firearms Safety, and real world weapons handling, and how they do not often mesh well together.
In the case of this cop, his finger looked like it was off the trigger. The guns not going to go off and shoot someone. It sort of looks like the guy has a SW99, but I can't tell. If it is, those can be goofy guns for people not familiar with them.
I hear people complain about shoulder holsters and muzzles sweeping people and people getting uncomfortable around them. There's a difference between common sense and overreaction.
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Old 07-29-2011, 07:48 PM   #17
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Reedo

I like when you reply. Even when I don't agree it gives is a lot to talk about!

I'll reply Sunday when I can be at a computer. Too much to type from a phone!

Enjoy the weekend brother
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:22 PM   #18
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Reedo

I like when you reply. Even when I don't agree it gives is a lot to talk about!

I'll reply Sunday when I can be at a computer. Too much to type from a phone!

Enjoy the weekend brother
I try to type from my phone, and my phone tells to use a computer because my fingers are too fat.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:59 PM   #19
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Good stuff from both of you guys.... Waiting on Jon Jon...

Funny thing is that this is my old stomping grounds and I have seen this police officer from time to time.. He is a good guy and again he was respectful and did fine IMO.

I can say that the CHP (California Highway Patrol) in that same situation would have had a field day with this guy... Sad but true. I have seen it happen.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:09 PM   #20
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I try to type from my phone, and my phone tells to use a computer because my fingers are too fat.
Lol. I know ALL about fat fingers... and I'm trying to learn guitar too.

I'm always pressing the "return" button on my IPhone when aiming for the "m"
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