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Old 08-06-2011, 11:48 PM   #21
LivesNearCostco
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Let me jump onto this thread. Bought car Feb 2010 and haven't had any battery problems before. PO said he replaced battery in 2009. Recently I left my car parked for 4.5 weeks with the alarm activated. Came back last week, started it up for about 2 minutes, then used 12V air compressor to top off all 4 tires from the cigarette lighter. Then battery didn't have enough power to restart the car. I jumped the car and it's been fine since. Obviously I didn't run it long enough after that first start to recharge the battery, but I've inflated the tires from the car battery many times before without having a starting problem. Does this sound like normal battery performance?

--Does the car draw more power in sleep mode when the alarm is on?
--If battery is good, how long can the car sit and still start?
--Is there an easy way to check if the battery needs water, other than unbolting it and taking it out?
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Old 08-07-2011, 01:35 AM   #22
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Next time run the car while the 12V cigarette air compressor is running... problem solved.
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Old 08-07-2011, 05:21 AM   #23
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Thanks for the help guys, Does the FSR still draw current even with fuses 28 and 50 disconnected ? My guess is "yes", I also think that it must be more than a resistor, it is probably an electronic switch. Has anyone heard the sound that i'm hearing, it is loudest right behind the auto or fan switch of the control unit, it is making this noise even when the key is shut off. At this point, I don't have a better solution than to order the fsr, which i did from Autohauz for $61. As a side note, if yopu are reading this and thinking about ordering a a non-OEM, non "Behr" FSR, don't do it. I have read that the non OEM, Ebay style units fail very quickly. This is a high stress, high temperature part. I will feedback with the results of the FSR replacement and my current draw test after 16 minutes. i'm at the point now that the extra test time vs just replacing the FSR may not be warranted, intermittent issues are the toughest to nail down. Thanks Again ( Seth, Dmax, John, 2003_325i) , Don C. You guys really go out of your way to make this work and BMW owners and ethusiastists are really a special group. Seth, I want that Midtronics tool like yours for my Bday, i can dream, can't i ?

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Old 08-07-2011, 05:31 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco View Post
Let me jump onto this thread. Bought car Feb 2010 and haven't had any battery problems before. PO said he replaced battery in 2009. Recently I left my car parked for 4.5 weeks with the alarm activated. Came back last week, started it up for about 2 minutes, then used 12V air compressor to top off all 4 tires from the cigarette lighter. Then battery didn't have enough power to restart the car. I jumped the car and it's been fine since. Obviously I didn't run it long enough after that first start to recharge the battery, but I've inflated the tires from the car battery many times before without having a starting problem. Does this sound like normal battery performance?

--Does the car draw more power in sleep mode when the alarm is on?
--If battery is good, how long can the car sit and still start?
--Is there an easy way to check if the battery needs water, other than unbolting it and taking it out?
--Does the car draw more power in sleep mode when the alarm is on? Yes
--If battery is good, how long can the car sit and still start? the battery is 70-80 AH, so take how much it draws in sleep mode, say 40 ma divide that into 70 or 80. 70/.040 = 1750hrs or 73 days. You have to subtract off the extra current used everytime the doors are open, plus losses, my guess is that it should be able to sit for more than a month. I would use a battery tender whenever possible.


--Is there an easy way to check if the battery needs water, other than unbolting it and taking it out ? Its simple to unbolt it so that's the best way, you might be able to take the hold down off, disconnect the terminals, then check the level.

what kinda battery is in there ?

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Old 08-07-2011, 11:47 PM   #25
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CelluloudHeros (Heroes?)... hope you don't mind my jumping into your thread. Wish I could help, but I haven't replaced my FSR yet, though I did replace the heater/AC blower fan because it was squeaking like a cricket. (Edit: specifically squeaking like a cricket on stimulants.) Thanks for the answers. I don't know what kind of battery is in there... a big heavy one! I have disconnected the negative terminal many times, so yeah when I get to it again I will disconnect battery, remove hold down, take it out and check the electrolyte level. I don't even know if it's a maintenance free battery or not.

2003_325i: Yes, that would have solved my problem! I just never had to run the engine while inflating the tires before. Of course I normally drive an hour on the freeway to get to any AutoX, so the battery is fully charged when I park it and start inflating the tires. Next AutoX I probably try to be mellow, leave my dedicated wheels and tires at home, and just run with my standard tires at whatever pressure they're at, instead of sweating the jack, torque wrench, and air compressor. I'm not good enough yet to be really competitive.

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Old 08-21-2011, 09:01 AM   #26
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Okay, so i finally got around to changing the FSR module and it did not fix the problem. I am still drawing .62 amps after entering sleep mode. this problem is intermittent. I am going to attempt to pull all the fuses. Since this problem is intermittent, it is difficult to troubleshoot but it's drawing current now. drawing .62 amps all the time will draw down the battery in 3-5 days.

I could really use some help as to how to go about troubleshooting this issue. Also what is the best way to make sure the front terminals are clean. Am I right in thinking the positive front terminal is the one to clean ?

I am going to charge up the battery and start pulling fuses as Masterpo says. One things that I notice is that the A/C/Heater fan makes a growling/gurgling noise, after I turn the key off, i can still hear a noise from inside the a/c controller, this noise does eventually go away yet the current draw remains. The parasitic draw comes and goes and is hard to predict. The thing that's hard is that there are some modules controlled by multiple fuses, I also find it hard to remove/reinstall the fuses, what is the secret ? The little fuse puller tool only works fair for me.
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Old 08-21-2011, 09:44 AM   #27
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Draw the fuses ONE BY ONE.
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Old 08-21-2011, 11:58 AM   #28
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Okay, I pulled the first 41 fuses, #41 dropped the current draw 500 m-amps. # 41 (30 amp green) is related to Navigation, On-Board Monitor, Radio. I don't have a navigation system, just the old BMW business cassette, I am the original owner of the car and no one has taken the radio out etc... I have done all the work on the car myself so I know for the most part what has been done. Fuse #7 (5 amp yellow) is also related to Navigation, On-Board Monitor & Radio, but has no effect on the current draw when the car is in sleep mode. Can anyone explain What the on board monitor does and historic issues in this area ? I guess my radio could be the issue but It doesn't appear to be on when I'm drawing the extra 500 mamps.

thanks to all; that have rear and or helped with this issue. CH
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:10 PM   #29
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So far two fuses drop the current while in sleep mode, #41 (radio, On-Board Monitor, Nav.) and # 63 (Air Conditioner). The growling noise stops when I pull fuse #63. I wonder if it's possible that the new Behr FSR/FSU (64 11 6 920 365) is defective and acts like the old one ? Anyway, I'm looking for a way to resolve this issue, I am going to charge the battery completely and take some current draw measurements and post them. Is there one thing that touches both of these areas, like a controller or something ? I am wondering of replacing the a/c heater controller would be expensive. Can anyone tell me how easy it is to remove the controller, i assume you remove the trim and unscrew it.
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:11 PM   #30
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Equipment Fuse No.
ABS, ASC 12, 33, 42, 53, 56
Adjustment Driver Seat 65
Adjustment Passenger Seat 70
Airbag 11
Air Conditioner 28, 62, 63
Automatic Gearbox Diesel 64
Blower 28, 50
Brake Light 9
Central Locking System 49, 52, 60
Central Locking System (Only Touring) 49, 52, 58, 60
Cigarette Lighter 47
Cigarette Lighter (Austrailia) 26, 47
DSC 12, 33, 40, 42, 53, 56, 61
DSC (4-Wheel Drive) 12, 33, 35, 40, 42, 53
Electric Fan 37
Electric Seat Heating 12, 42
Engine Control 27, 29, 30
Engine Control (Only M3) 22, 29, 30
Folding Outside Mirror 57
Front Fog Light 38
Fuel Pump 54
Garage Door Opener 26
Glove Box Light 52
Hand Lamp 52
Headlight Cleaning 51
Heated Outdoor Mirror, Passenger 25
Heated Rear Window 68
Heated Rear Window (Only Cabrio) 7, 68
Heated Spray Nozzles 25
Heater 23, 28, 62
Hinged Window (Only Coupe) 71
Horn 5, 55
Immobilizer 14, 67
Instrument Cluster 10, 34, 43
Inside Mirror Electrochromic 24, 67
Interior Light 49, 52
Light Module 9, 32
Make-Up Mirror Light 6
Manual Soft Top (Only Cabrio) 12, 42, 46
Navigation 7, 41
On-Board Computer 9
On-Board Diagnosis II 30, 43
On-Board Monitor 7, 41
Outside Mirror 31, 57
Parking Aid 24
Passenger Comp./ Trunk Lighting 52
Power Soft Top (Only Cabrio) 6, 12, 35, 42, 46
Radio 7, 41
Rain Sensor 15
Rear Wiper (Only Touring) 15, 45
Reversing Light 27
Roller Sun Blind 12, 42
Roll-Over Protective System (Only Cabrio) 13
Secondary Air Pump 36
Shifting Gate Illumination 40
Side Airbag 11
Sliding/ Tilt Roof 46
Socket 47
Speed Control 9
Sequential Transmission (Only M3) 8, 22
Starter Interlock 14
Telephone 7, 39
Thiefproofing System 49, 67
Trailer Coupling 44
Tyre Pressure 12, 31, 42, 69
Water Valve, A/C 62
Window Lift, Front 48, 49
Window Lift, Rear 71
Windscreen Washer System 49, 52, 59
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:26 PM   #31
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I don't know the OE maker, but Behr makes lots of our parts and I'm pretty sure makes a good fsr, if not OE. Not promise, just a guess. It has a good reputation.

You asked about how a bad ground might cause I draw before and I don't know, but if you didn't clean under the terminals in the hood, now wouldn't hurt.

Could glovebox or trunk light be on? Did we cover that?

And then, we go back in the 'way back' machine...had you done any thing remotely in the area, or recall any weird incident you're sure is unrelated? I'm thinking you need to look for wire insulation damaged and touching metal (sort of thing)...major ground straps...just all to make electrical system happy.

You're convinced you have a parasitic draw and I can't argue with your multimeter numbers, because I haven't learned how to use one particularly well yet myself!

But, I might have mentioned that I chased a parasitic draw in my e36 for about 2 months before concluding it was the battery...and it was! If you haven't read up on bats yet, do. If you know tons...which is why you've told me to shut up about batteries four times now...bygones!

Too much, right?
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:54 PM   #32
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Hi Dmax, never too much, thanks, as always. I have already replaced the battery, which is why i don't think its that. Using a current meter is simple, just buy a decent one on eb ay, the fluke will last you forever or go to harbor freight, i can teach you how to use it. Just PM me. I have fuse 41 and 63 drawing current during sleep mode. With both of these pulled, I get 20 mamps of current drain (this is with the flashlight unplugged). The Glovebox light is not on as i have it unplugged, but it is a good point. I am very interested in the growling noise in the a/c control unit, I use a mechanics stethoscope, if i could only have one special tool, this would be it. I can hear the noise even without it, this noise goes away when #63 is pulled. I'm going to get some fresh current data,
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Old 08-21-2011, 02:58 PM   #33
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Will you stop blaming the FSR.
It's a resistor pack. It's a passive component. Just like a light bulb, it only draws current if the switch is on.
You already found the culprit fuse. Has nothing to do with FSR.
Leave it off for a few days and see if that stops draining your battery.
If it does, and you observe no ill effects, just leave it off.
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:04 PM   #34
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Hi Dmax, never too much, thanks, as always. I have already replaced the battery, which is why i don't think its that. Using a current meter is simple, just buy a decent one on eb ay, the fluke will last you forever or go to harbor freight, i can teach you how to use it. Just PM me. I have fuse 41 and 63 drawing current during sleep mode. With both of these pulled, I get 20 mamps of current drain (this is with the flashlight unplugged). The Glovebox light is not on as i have it unplugged, but it is a good point. I am very interested in the growling noise in the a/c control unit, I use a mechanics stethoscope, if i could only have one special tool, this would be it. I can hear the noise even without it, this noise goes away when #63 is pulled. I'm going to get some fresh current data,
I just mentioned to someone else with a 'blower sound' that I believe there's a fan behind the climate control for the cabin air temp sensor...it draws cabin air in through that tiny round louver. I wonder if that fan is the growl and your drain. I'm not sure of the name of that, or if it's independently replaceable, but I'll look real quick and see.

I also like the idea of leaving out the fuse that stops the draw...and checking that component's wires as best you can trace them. Mice eat wires; mechanics put them back where they rub and get cut...there are a million low odds things that can happen.

So, here's a sensor component...don't know more about it...maybe someone does. The AC control units are one part...no components available...other than this guy. Find its location, maybe you'll get lucky.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...00&hg=64&fg=45
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Old 08-21-2011, 03:24 PM   #35
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Ok Dmax, thanks. what do you think about fuse #41, do you think its related to #63 (A/C) ? I know that #63 goes to the a/c relay
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:26 PM   #36
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Ok Dmax, thanks. what do you think about fuse #41, do you think its related to #63 (A/C) ? I know that #63 goes to the a/c relay
41 is 'on board monitor' I have no idea what that does.

You know you have to wait 17 mins. after shutdown to pick up on parasitic draw, and even then, I know there is some expected draw when off...don't know what that is.

I also don't know what the size of your draw might be equivalent too. It sounds like we're talking a very small draw.

Since getting your new battery, how far have you driven?

Did you ever clean the terminals under the hood (under the terminals too) just coz I was so persistent about it? LOL

I'm not strong on electric stuff, OP, besides believing batterys are too often dismissed too early!

I can't read this all again, but did you check where the ground on the battery attaches to the car? That's about all I have...get good battery and make sure the grounds are good. Talk milliamps and I'm out of my field!

What are the driving habits of this car? A lot of short trips without a highway drive once a week could easily drain it...we get that a lot here. You need 20 mins. on the highway to charge it fully...and fyi, new batteries often aren't fully charged.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:28 PM   #37
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Masterpo, do a search on FSR/FSU, you will see that this is an extremely common failure part where it can stay on after the car is shut off, it is related to the heater/AC circuit. I can see that with fuse 41 ans 63 pulled, that the parasitic drain is gone, the question is are these two related and how do i fix them. The car does not have any modifications and no one else but me has worked on the car in years. Here's my measurement values:

battery voltage, car in sleep mode 12.4 volts

Fuse 41, 63 pulled, turn key to pos 2, turn fan on, turn key off after 5 mins the current draw is only .25 amps and then soon drops to .04 amps

Reinstall fuse 41,63 turn key to pos 2, turn fan on, turn key off, reading is 2.5 amps, open Glove box, =2.8 amps pull 63= 1.0 amps, pull 41= .4 amps, close Glove box = .1 amps

so fuse 63 is draining 1.8 amps and fuse 41 is draining .6 amps. these two seem to be related somehow. I'm hoping to tie these two together somehow.

Need to figure out how to pull the a/c control unit and radio.
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Old 08-21-2011, 04:51 PM   #38
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Masterpo, do a search on FSR/FSU, you will see that this is an extremely common failure part where it can stay on after the car is shut off, it is related to the heater/AC circuit. I can see that with fuse 41 ans 63 pulled, that the parasitic drain is gone, the question is are these two related and how do i fix them. The car does not have any modifications and no one else but me has worked on the car in years. Here's my measurement values:

battery voltage, car in sleep mode 12.4 volts

Fuse 41, 63 pulled, turn key to pos 2, turn fan on, turn key off after 5 mins the current draw is only .25 amps and then soon drops to .04 amps

Reinstall fuse 41,63 turn key to pos 2, turn fan on, turn key off, reading is 2.5 amps, open Glove box, =2.8 amps pull 63= 1.0 amps, pull 41= .4 amps, close Glove box = .1 amps

so fuse 63 is draining 1.8 amps and fuse 41 is draining .6 amps. these two seem to be related somehow. I'm hoping to tie these two together somehow.

Need to figure out how to pull the a/c control unit and radio.
You remove trim beginning on the left side and moving over to the piece above the radio. There are some screws there for the radio.

The AC, I'm not sure about. It might just push out after radio is out.

Check diys on or around that area.
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:04 PM   #39
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Hi dmax, fuse 41 is Radio, Nav and on board monitor. Like a monitor screen i think. For me, fuse 41 is just the radio, I believe. I drive the car 45 min to work but have not been driving it at all since I have the issue. I am how ever charging it fully with a battery charger. I am quite certain the battery is good. i will check for grounding issues, I am gonna pull the IHKA controller and see what that growling noise is with the key off. Wish me luck pulling the trim etc... I know you can pull the controller without removing the trim etc... if you know where the tabs are, but i don't. Thanks again, CH
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Old 08-21-2011, 07:13 PM   #40
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Hi dmax, fuse 41 is Radio, Nav and on board monitor. Like a monitor screen i think. For me, fuse 41 is just the radio, I believe. I drive the car 45 min to work but have not been driving it at all since I have the issue. I am how ever charging it fully with a battery charger. I am quite certain the battery is good. i will check for grounding issues, I am gonna pull the IHKA controller and see what that growling noise is with the key off. Wish me luck pulling the trim etc... I know you can pull the controller without removing the trim etc... if you know where the tabs are, but i don't. Thanks again, CH
I did the radio recently, so just get some trim tools or wrap the 'non' trim tools in tape or cloth.

There is a link around here to the BMW TIS so you can get tips on trim removal.

On the tabs for IHKA, not sure, but an xl50 (maglite from HD for $30) can help you see things very well and that makes a big difference!

Use advanced/title search to speed things up.

I like the battery charging idea. You know that worked for a guy just a few days ago! Might also study up on load testing the battery too...not the same as at a shop with a real machine, but better than just knowing voltage.

GL...stay patient!
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