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Old 08-21-2011, 09:56 PM   #41
celluloidheros
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okay, i removed the radio and climate control unit, very easy job, the trim came off easy. There is a little fan on the back of the climate controller, if you look at the controller from the front, there is a vent on the left side, behind this there is a little black fan. Must be for the interior temp sensor. This was the growling that i heard, i used some caned air and blew out the vent and fan. I'm wondering if this fan is supposed to stay on until the car goes to sleep. I also wonder if the FSU is associated with this fan in any way.

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Old 08-21-2011, 10:06 PM   #42
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*did not read thread*

I love in Rochester too, near RIT. I can help you fix it if you haven't yet. PM me.
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Old 08-22-2011, 03:13 AM   #43
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I don't know the HVAC system but doubt the FSU is directly associated with the fan for the interior temp sensor. Other than in automatic mode, the DME will use the interior temp sensor to set the interior fan speed via the FSU.

I was going to say that something in there opens and closes the little flaps for the vents. I know because I hear them open and close and when I replaced my heater blower fan (whose speed is controlled by the FSU), I saw these two movable flaps near the blower fan. I think the car has some solenoid or electrical motor that moves those vent flaps, and maybe one was stuck energized and/or making that growling noise. But it sounds like you found your little growler related to fuse 63. You could troubleshoot that fan itself or see if there is a relay that turns it on and off. Maybe it's supposed to run only when the climate control system is running, but yours runs all the time, even when the car is off.

Don't have any suggestions about the draw on fuse #41. You didn't add an iPod adapter or built-in phone recently, did you? Maybe the CIA put a secret tracking device in your car and hooked it to the unused nav system power leads.
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Old 08-22-2011, 10:01 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco View Post
I don't know the HVAC system but doubt the FSU is directly associated with the fan for the interior temp sensor. Other than in automatic mode, the DME will use the interior temp sensor to set the interior fan speed via the FSU.

I was going to say that something in there opens and closes the little flaps for the vents. I know because I hear them open and close and when I replaced my heater blower fan (whose speed is controlled by the FSU), I saw these two movable flaps near the blower fan. I think the car has some solenoid or electrical motor that moves those vent flaps, and maybe one was stuck energized and/or making that growling noise. But it sounds like you found your little growler related to fuse 63. You could troubleshoot that fan itself or see if there is a relay that turns it on and off. Maybe it's supposed to run only when the climate control system is running, but yours runs all the time, even when the car is off.

Don't have any suggestions about the draw on fuse #41. You didn't add an iPod adapter or built-in phone recently, did you? Maybe the CIA put a secret tracking device in your car and hooked it to the unused nav system power leads.
Hello, I have not added anything recently like an Ipod etc.. i know that the two current draws of fuse #41 and #63 are related, The issue happened all at once, so both issues have to be related. When I remove and reinstall fuse 63, the power does not come back on. This is not true for fuse 41, when I reinstall fuse 41, the power draw is still there. i am goling to measure the resistance between the positive side and ground for these two without the battery connected. if the positive is somehow corroded and giving say 10 ohms between it and ground, It could be the culprit. i don't have confidence in this fix as the issue is intermittent, if it was corrosion, it would not be intermittent. i won't overlook anything though. i am hoping that JBEurotech shows up as he is very sharp in these matters.

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Old 08-22-2011, 10:09 AM   #45
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*did not read thread*

I love in Rochester too, near RIT. I can help you fix it if you haven't yet. PM me.

Hey Travisn, what's up ? I live in Webster and have a garage on my house that I work out of, no lift though. Any ideas on what could be wrong with my car ? I wouldn't mind meeting some other BMW people in the area, i actually went to RIT back a few years ago to get my MSME. Do you have any type of bmw software to monitor current draws.

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Old 08-22-2011, 10:38 AM   #46
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no, but I have a multimeter and I know how to use it! I have off for 2 weeks before co-op so basically I am free all day.

I'm going for my BSME. Were you on the formula team at all?
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:35 PM   #47
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Hello Travisn, I went to RIT for my MSME while I was working for johnson and johnson, I was so buried with work and school that i didn't have time for the formula team although I wish that i did.
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Old 08-23-2011, 12:39 PM   #48
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I spoke with a person who repairs AC controllers, the little fan for the interior tempo sensor is supposed to run for awhile. i spoke with Delmarko and he convinced me to buy the newer verison ac controller, i have also wanted to upgrade mto the new style CD/MP3 player so i'm going to do that now that I know how to remove all that stuff. I still have this feeling that the FSU is wrapped up in this. If i have time, when i see the parasitic draing after the car is suppoosed to be asleep (say 20 mins after the key is pulled) I'm going to disconnect the FSU. If this stops the drain, i'm going to swap this out for another one. call me nuts.
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:25 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
I spoke with a person who repairs AC controllers, the little fan for the interior tempo sensor is supposed to run for awhile. i spoke with Delmarko and he convinced me to buy the newer verison ac controller, i have also wanted to upgrade mto the new style CD/MP3 player so i'm going to do that now that I know how to remove all that stuff. I still have this feeling that the FSU is wrapped up in this. If i have time, when i see the parasitic draing after the car is suppoosed to be asleep (say 20 mins after the key is pulled) I'm going to disconnect the FSU. If this stops the drain, i'm going to swap this out for another one. call me nuts.
I thought you'd tested that little fan after the car went to sleep...>20 mins?

I like Delmarco, so don't want to disagree with his recommendation, but wonder why you think that's where the draw is coming from?

If you haven't tested the little fan, or checked the fsr after shutdown, seems like those would be easy things to do...as the AC controller sounds like it'd be pricey. Just saying!
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Old 08-23-2011, 01:58 PM   #50
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yea I hear ya, formula is a full time job in itself.

read this to learn how to perform a parasitic draw test. seems pretty clear and informative: http://flashoffroad.com/electrical/C...rrentdrain.pdf
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:23 PM   #51
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Increased closed-circuit currents may occur permanently or intermittently and cause the battery to discharge prematurely. The increase in closed-circuit current may be caused by a faulty control unit, or by the installation of a non-approved accessory.

In a situation where a vehicle has broken down due to a discharged battery, for diagnostic purposes it is important not to disconnect the battery. This is because a control unit will be reset if the battery is disconnected. Following a reset, the faulty control unit may start functioning correctly again, making accurate diagnosis impossible.

To correctly measure closed-circuit current, the 50-amp clip-on probe (previously used with the MIB) can now be used in conjunction with the IMIB (Integrated Measurement Interface Box) to properly diagnosis closed-circuit current problems over an extended period of time. Connect the 50-amp clip-on probe directly to the IMIB Measurement input 3 (green socket). Refer to SI B04 35 09 for information about the IMIB.

PROCEDURE

It is very important that any "Power management" faults stored be diagnosed and corrected, and the "Energy Diagnosis" test plan carried out before the following procedure is performed.

Check and test the battery using the BMW Battery Tester. Refer to SI B 04 25 02 for information about the BMW Battery. If necessary, recharge or replace the battery.

If the battery is installed in the trunk, open the trunk and turn the lock to the locked position, using a screwdriver or similar (simulates the trunk lid being closed). The hood must be closed. If the battery is installed in the engine compartment, open the hood and pull the front lid contact switch fully up, and lock in this position (workshop position, simulates the front lid being closed). The trunk must be closed.

With the exception of the trunk/hood above, all other doors/lids must be closed.

In order to simulate normal closed-circuit conditions:

Turn the ignition on and activate all electrical consumers, including any accessories. Turn the ignition off. In some cases, a drive cycle may need to be carried out in order to duplicate a closed-circuit current problem.

Open and close the driver's door (simulates somebody getting out).

Lock the car, arming the DWA if this is installed.

In general, closed-circuit current consistently over 50mA must be investigated. Depending on the vehicle's equipment, closed-circuit current by vehicle model is approximately as follows:

E31 50 milliamps after 16 minutes
E32 50 milliamps after 16 minutes
E34 40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E36, Z3 30 milliamps after 16 minutes
E38 50 milliamps after 16 minutes
E39 40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E46 40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E60, E61, E63, E64 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes
E65, E66 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes
E53 40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E70, E71, E72 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU)
E83 40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E82, E88 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU)
E90, E91, E92, E93 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU)
E85 40 milliamps after 16 minutes
E89 40 milliamps after 60-70 minutes with TCU (30 minutes without TCU)
E52 50 milliamps after 16 minutes
F01, F02, F04, F07, F10 9-22 milliamps after 30 minutes

If the nominal milliamp reading is not achieved after the appropriate time, refer to the attached troubleshooting charts. On 2005 MY vehicles equipped with BMW ASSIST, there are additional current fluctuations as high as 500ma that last for approximately 2 minutes. The fluctuations occur every 15 minutes for up to 14 hours after key off. This is considered normal operation of the TCU, and should not be considered a fault. This also applies to 2005 TCUs that are installed into earlier production vehicles as replacement parts.

E60, E63, E64 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting E6x up to 9/05 production

E60, E61, E63, E64 Closed-Circuit Troubleshooting E6x from 9/05 production

E65, E66 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting up to 3/04 production

E65, E66 Closed-Circuit Current Troubleshooting from 3/04 production

Normal closed-circuit current values for E65, E70, E60, E61, E63, and E64

CLOSED-CIRCUIT CURRENT MEASUREMENT WITH THE IMIB:
Note: This technique with an IMIB is particularly suitable for extended measurements, and provides a graphical readout of recorded measurements over time. It is recommended for situations where the use of a multimeter provided insufficient information for problem diagnosis.

The IMIB can be accessed from any ISID within the workshop.

Select "Activities".

Select "Measuring devices".

Select from the "Level 1" column, "Measuring devices", and then "OK".

From the "Connection manager" screen, select the free IMIB and "Set up connection".

The "Measures devices" screen opens on the "Multimeter" tab.

Select the "Oscilloscope" tab.

Highlight the "CH1" tab to activate channel 1.

Under channel 1, "Source", scroll with the arrows to select "Clip-on probe 50A".

Make sure that clip-on probe is not connected to the battery cable, and acknowledge the pop-up message with "OK".

Change the "A/Div" setting to "1A".

Under the "Time" selection box, change the "Time/Div" setting based on the number of measurements needed (5 ms to 200 s). The longer times should be selected when performing the measurement over an extended period.

Select "CH 1" under "Cursor" to monitor the actual readings.

Select "Record" if performing long term measurements.

After performing the measurement, select "Record" again; the display will change to "Compress" and display the recorded data on the 1 screen
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Old 08-23-2011, 03:57 PM   #52
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Don't forget the WDS is available online:
Fuse 41
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...0000007471.svg

Fuse 63 is just the AC compressor relay
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...0000007513.svg
Which you could also pull and measure from:
Location:
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zinfo/E46_EK19B.htm
Pin outs for AC relay:
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zinfo/E46_PK19A.htm

F41 not only powers NAV screen, but also Radio, Amp and Sub Amp (if equipped (HK?)) and trunk mounted CD changer.

Maybe something related to the radio system is keeping the bus open which is keeping your climate control active. May be easiest to visit someone with the factory diagnostics tools.
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Old 08-24-2011, 03:40 PM   #53
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Thanks a bunch Seth and Jayme, boy that's a mouthful. I have the stock radio with no add-on mods like Angel eyes. I'm going to try unplugging the FSU next time I see the current draw, It appears like I should be in sleep mode after 16 minutes plus a little extra, so i'm gonne check after say 20 minutes to try to catch the draw, The 40 mamp spec is right on. My car is down at around 10 mamps when it is working well and the flashlight is unplugged. I have no alarm.

I wish Seth was closer, I will look at the a/c relay when I pull the FSU.

Okay here's a good one, is there anyother relay similar to the a/c relay that i can swap, i seem to remember that there are two of the same relays up in that area.

Jayme, I like your line of thinking on the bus being open, i would like to know what the a/c relay and the raido have in common. I can tell you this, when I pull fuse 63, the little climate control fan in the controller stops and doesn't come back on when 63 is put back.

I juast haven't found anyone that i trust workjing on my car more than me yet, i might not have the diagnostic tools for this one, my elkectrical schematic reading skills are weak too as i am a mechanical engineer.

Thanks again, you really helped me a lot. CH
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Old 08-24-2011, 05:57 PM   #54
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Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
my elkectrical schematic reading skills are weak too as i am a mechanical engineer.
you know that is a bullshit excuse man. have you hooked up an amp meter in series and pulled fuses till the draw drops yet?

this is just an excuse to buy tools. lol
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Old 08-24-2011, 06:48 PM   #55
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you know that is a bullshit excuse man. have you hooked up an amp meter in series and pulled fuses till the draw drops yet?

this is just an excuse to buy tools. lol
Hey, if you read through the string, one of the first this i did was pull the fuses with my fluke hooked up. I saw a .4 amp drop on Fuse #41 (Radio) and a 1.8 amp drop for Fuse #63 (A/C). The schematics I was talking about were some of the BMW ones online. My comment was comnparing my mechaincal skills which are good to my schematics reading and troubleshooting. I am trying to link fUSE 41 AND 63. Waiting 20 mins for the car to go to sleep is time consuming.

I'm going to look at the a/c relay next and see if it's connected to the FSR.

I have a Fluke 87 and a few other meters at home, I do have a yokogawa meter at work but haven't brought that home yet.
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Old 08-24-2011, 10:53 PM   #56
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Quote:
Jayme, I like your line of thinking on the bus being open, i would like to know what the a/c relay and the raido have in common. I can tell you this, when I pull fuse 63, the little climate control fan in the controller stops and doesn't come back on when 63 is put back.
The only thing I can think of is that the radio and climate control both talk to everything via the single wire bus. My guess, albeit possibly wrong, is that the radio (or hidded ipod adaptor, stock cd changer, stock amp (on the deck lid if you have factory harman kardon) etc) is stopping the climate control from shutting down, maybe. If you pull the radio fuse and the problem doesn't happen, well I would think it must be something on that circuit.

One more question for you though - when you pull the radio fuse, your keyless still works right??
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Old 08-25-2011, 09:35 AM   #57
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Hello "jayme", I agree with your theory. when I have time i will investigate further. In looking at my Bentley, there seems to be two A/C relays. But there seem to be different configs of this relay box under the glove box depending on model/year. The A/C relay im interested in must be for the compressor clutch (Fuse 63). i'm going to investigate whether the clutch is actually on or not and try popping in a new ac compressor clutch relay. I have ordered a new CD53 CD-R/MP3 player and also a new AC controller, the newer smaller model. It's possible that these will help. I wanted to get rid of the business cassette and make some room behind the ac controller. I also had to get the 315 mhz ant. amplifier and radio adapter.

Fuse 63 draws about 1.8-2 amps and fuse 41 draws about .4 amps. the 20 min. wait for sleep mode is a PITA. it really extends the troubleshooting time. I am also trying to get a spare FSU just for giggles.

Here's a question, if your car is running and you turn your AC climate control fan switch to the lowest setting, it turns the controller "off". If you then turn your key "off" and restart the car, does your climate control stay off ? Mine doesn't, it comes back "on". Is this normal ?

Thanks, CH

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Old 08-25-2011, 10:24 AM   #58
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http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...00&hg=61&fg=25

From this i gather that the AC Relay is p/n 61368373700 ??

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts...02&hg=61&fg=25

it looks like the wiper relay is the same so I can use this to test ?
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Old 08-25-2011, 02:52 PM   #59
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Here's a post that ties the radio and climate controller but it doesn't really explain everything, i wish that people would follow up with their final fix. We should make sure we input our final solutiuon if we get one.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...mpressor+relay

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Old 08-25-2011, 02:58 PM   #60
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Have you been in the e-box fuses at all looking? Reason I ask, if you see this thread below, I posted the list of relays 'one' fuse in e-box covered. All in Bentley.

Anyway, I'm wondering if the connection you want might be in one of those fuses...which seem to control mostly relays, not 'items' per se.

Just wondering...did not check for the 'ties' you want.


http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...light=sap+fuse
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