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Old 08-25-2011, 03:18 PM   #61
celluloidheros
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Hi dmax,

Fuse 63 is just the AC compressor relay
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...0000007513.svg (you need firefox to view this svg file, IE might not open it)

If you look at the schematic above, Fuse 63 feeds from fuse F108 which is 200 amps (wow) , this info is different From it connecting to a 20 amp Fuse in the Ebox. if it's anything like my house, the main box would be fed by a single large fusable link, so 200 amps sounds right.

What's up with this, is it the old different models and years had entirly different wiring.

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Old 08-25-2011, 03:31 PM   #62
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
Hi dmax,

Fuse 63 is just the AC compressor relay
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...0000007513.svg (you need firefox to view this svg file, IE might not open it)

If you look at the schematic above, Fuse 63 feeds from fuse F108 which is 200 amps (wow) , this info is different From it connecting to a 20 amp relay in the Ebox.

What's up with this, is it the old different models and years had entirly different wiring.

Edit: Nevermind...I looked...nothing in e-box fuse pack that ties radio and ac...sorry!

There's a fuse pack in the e-box under the hood. That one fuse controlled relays...not a relay itself. I'm just saying I was surprised that one of those fuses controlled so many different relays, so I thought the connection you were looking for between AC and radio, might be in one of those 'other' fuses...under the box cover just in front of the driver (under the hood). If you haven't checked there, it'd be at least consulting Bentley...under 'elect. component locations'...early on where it lists the fuses.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:05 AM   #63
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Quote:
Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
If you look at the schematic above, Fuse 63 feeds from fuse F108 which is 200 amps (wow) , this info is different From it connecting to a 20 amp relay in the Ebox.

What's up with this, is it the old different models and years had entirly different wiring.
Fuse 108 is one of the master fuses. The diagrams do not show the tree going backwards because they are usually irrelavent in troubleshooting

See this one for F108
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...7532.svg?m=e46
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:30 AM   #64
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Hello, the new AC Controller came, works good but did not fix the issue, I'm going to look at the AC Compressor relay next. I think I might have damaged the battery by draining it down multiple times. Thanks for everyones help.
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:33 AM   #65
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Why not just disconnect the A/C clutch and see if that stops the current leak? Or did you try that already? You could get a battery charger or float charger, so when you take a break at night to sleep, eat, or read e46fanatics.com, your battery can get recharged.
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:34 AM   #66
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I doubt it is the relay itself...

Just for clarification, you unplugged the FSR and still saw the high current draw at random times/dead battery?
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:34 PM   #67
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hello, I have a battery charger and trickle float charger i will use them. I have not unplugged the FSR yet, But i did put a new one in, the chances of the new one doing the exact same thing are slim. I will unplug it when I pull the glove box out tom check the relay. I will also check the clutch on the ac compressor, I have not looked for the plug yet. so here's my plan of attach:

1) check FSU/FSR
2) check AC Relay under glove box (swap it with another of the same #)
3) check AC clutch power connection, unplug it.
4) Unplug radio
5) cry if none of the above work

So far Fuse 63 is drawing 1-5 to 2 amps and Fuse 41 is drawing .4-.6 amps.

Replacing the AC controller had no effect, anyone need a good AC controller or an FSU ? i will also have a BMW business cassette/CD Changer controller in Ex shape.

Luckily I have two other cars to drive, so i will fix the Bimmer in my spare time. I have been playing golf and chasing girls too much and not fixing my cars. need to get my priorities straight. i am hoping that a sparky with a brain drops in and saves me.
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Old 08-26-2011, 02:43 PM   #68
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Hey Jayme, i see what you mean about Fuse 108 being irrelevant, I know that Fuse 63 has power to it so who cares that Fuse 108 is the main power fuse, i want to go the other way towards the AC Relay. Jayme, i thought it was odd that you said in one of your last posts that it probably isn't the relay, Because you were the one who lead me to that relay, did you mean probably isn't the clutch is response to livesnearcostco's comment ? Also, I have seen lots of relays with issues in the past. Thanks, I know this issue is dragging Cuz i haven't spent much time "under the hood "

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Old 08-26-2011, 02:46 PM   #69
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+1 for having more than one vehicle.

But tell me more of this chasing girls game, I go on co-op soon so I'm hoping to find a couple there, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Old 08-26-2011, 03:20 PM   #70
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Hi Travisn, I think that i am a little older than you, (I'm 40) We have lots of cute coop's where i work, But many of them are gone after the summer. I have a friend that's 30 and one that's 35. i'll post the picture of my friend that's 30, she is hot. I realkly like the younger one but she has a kid and lots if issues. men really hound her. IDK, try online like plentyoffish, join the gym etc... NYC is a good place for chicks, i used to live there. Thanks for posting the links on troubleshooting a parasitic drain. I have heard that the key switch can go bad, it still doesn't make asense that two fuses are abd at the same time, the key switch might touch both of these things.
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Old 08-26-2011, 04:38 PM   #71
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(You distracted my thoughts by posting a picture of a cute lady in pink velvet, carrying a kid.)

The plug of the AC compressor clutch should be easy to find... just look under hood at A/C compressor, and there should be only four things attached to it: drive belt, two Freon lines, and a wire harness plug that makes the clutch engage or not. Disconnect that. I *think* (but am not sure) that even if the AC relay is bad, if you disconnect to the clutch, the bad relay should stop drawing power. Should be easy to test with the multimeter.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:05 PM   #72
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Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
hello, I have a battery charger and trickle float charger i will use them. I have not unplugged the FSR yet, But i did put a new one in, the chances of the new one doing the exact same thing are slim. I will unplug it when I pull the glove box out tom check the relay. I will also check the clutch on the ac compressor, I have not looked for the plug yet. so here's my plan of attach:

1) check FSU/FSR
2) check AC Relay under glove box (swap it with another of the same #)
3) check AC clutch power connection, unplug it.
4) Unplug radio
5) cry if none of the above work

So far Fuse 63 is drawing 1-5 to 2 amps and Fuse 41 is drawing .4-.6 amps.

Replacing the AC controller had no effect, anyone need a good AC controller or an FSU ? i will also have a BMW business cassette/CD Changer controller in Ex shape.

Luckily I have two other cars to drive, so i will fix the Bimmer in my spare time. I have been playing golf and chasing girls too much and not fixing my cars. need to get my priorities straight. i am hoping that a sparky with a brain drops in and saves me.
Celluloid,
I am an electrical engineer. Doesn't mean I know **** about the specifics of E46 circuitry, but I do know how electricity, and components like resistor packs and relays work.
I'm sorry to say this so... brutishly, but your logic is flawed. Just because you read online about a component prone to failure doesn't mean it's the culprit in your current drain issue. A light bulb can fail, does it drain current after it fails? Exactly the opposite. An FSR is a pack of resistors. It's purpose is to drain current, just like a light bulb. If it's doing that, it's working as designed. If it's draining current at the wrong time, the faulty component is whatever is feeding current to the FSR at the wrong time, not the FSR.
You seem to want to replace component by component. Sounds like throwing dart in the dark. If you find that fun, by all means. But no professional would approach it that way.

If you are willing to try a "from scratch" but systematic approach, try this:

a) take a good picture of your fuse box. Make sure all the fuse ratings are showing.
b) remove all the fuses and give the fuse box a good cleaning. Use CRC Contact Clener spray, if you must.
c) Insert fuses ONE BY ONE. Note the current drain after each. I wouldn't necessarily start with fuse #1. Rather, I'd start by function. For example, I'd start with the ones controlling the car's computer and other main functions that you must have. Leave all the stuff that have a ON/OFF switch (and you know the switch is OFF) like head lights, horn, radio and A/C for last.
As noted in previous posts, don't worry about a small drain during idle state. I think it was mentioned something like 50mA.
Again... ONE fuse at a time. Note the drain at idle. Once you isolate to one culprit fuse, you can have your fun replacing all the components in that circuit, also ONE by ONE.
Oh, and after you replace a part, and it's not the culprit, trust it. Move on. Makes no sense to insist that the new part must be defective.
Good luck.

NOTE: Before you do the above, do some research... I seem to recall the E46 having some reset issues, like when you remove the battery for an extended period of time. Removing all the fuses will be equivalent. I know your radio code will need to be re-entered, just can't recall what else.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:36 PM   #73
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I like the idea of the ignition switch...but I don't know if it ties your components together or not, OP.

Ignition goes through testing a number of systems at start up, and I know it's been associated with radio and 'things' on the steering wheel at the same time...I have no idea why, but I've heard it said here more than once.

I don't know how you'd verify that, but suspect good software is needed...as in more than a Peake.

Anyway, put it on your list of possibles...sorry to add to your burden, but wanted to add something to the hunch mentioned above.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:56 PM   #74
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I had a similar problem. I found that my trunk lights were staying on. Pulled the bulbs, problem sovled.
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Old 08-26-2011, 05:58 PM   #75
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I had a similar problem. I found that my trunk lights were staying on. Pulled the bulbs, problem sovled.
I hope OP is past that...and the glove box light too.

Anyway, you can just fix the switch and have trunk lights again. It's nice to have and I'm sure it's probably the switch (or an easily traceable wire issue).
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Old 08-26-2011, 07:29 PM   #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Master Po View Post
If you are willing to try a "from scratch" but systematic approach, try this:..
thats what I said!^

Quote:
Originally Posted by celluloidheros View Post
Hi Travisn, I think that i am a little older than you, (I'm 40) We have lots of cute coop's where i work, But many of them are gone after the summer. I have a friend that's 30 and one that's 35. i'll post the picture of my friend that's 30, she is hot. I realkly like the younger one but she has a kid and lots if issues. men really hound her. IDK, try online like plentyoffish, join the gym etc... NYC is a good place for chicks, i used to live there. Thanks for posting the links on troubleshooting a parasitic drain. I have heard that the key switch can go bad, it still doesn't make asense that two fuses are abd at the same time, the key switch might touch both of these things.
Yea, I am 25. While 30 isn't necessarily out of my age range, its probably the other way around. I've been with a couple 30+ women. and kids? I'd really have to like her. (ex: I was in Venice last year and hooked up with a 30yo Australian. I would certainly move to Aus if she'd have it and if I didn't have school going for me). I am on POF but thats not doing so well, maybe if I liked plus sized girls. NYC? too far to make it worth my while. yea yea I know Australia is on the other side of the world but she is the exception not the rule.

The one you posted is cute, but not cute enough for long term if you get what I am saying. haha. Plus brunettes do it better.

Keep me updated.

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Old 08-27-2011, 02:18 AM   #77
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Hey Jayme, i see what you mean about Fuse 108 being irrelevant, i know that Fuse 63 Has power to it so who cares that Fuse 108 is the main power fuse, i want to go the other way towards the AC Relay. Jayme, i thought iot was odd that you said in one of your last posts that it probably isn't the relay, Because you were the one who lead me to that relay, did you mean probably isn't the clutch is response to livesnearcostco's comment ? Also, I have seen lots of relays with issues in the past. Thanks, I know this issue is dragging Cuz i haven't spent much time "under the hood "
To clarify, I doubt it is the relay itself, but more likely what is triggering the relay.

You have already narrowed high current draw to the radio and the fuse which connects to the AC relay. Maybe we should look at the schematics of that relay...
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:25 AM   #78
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As per the schematic of the AC relay connector pins:
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/zinfo/E46_PK19A.htm


Does your AUX fan under the hood work?? Maybe it is the relay now that I look at it. Things driven on F108 are not switch with the key (as far as I can tell from the schematics)
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Old 08-27-2011, 02:44 AM   #79
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This is the actual relay schematic
http://wds.spaghetticoder.org/en/svg...0000011761.svg

maybe it is the relay itself - do you have a spare? or a friend with E46 you can trade?? Can you unplug the clutch as suggested and see if that removes the draw. The ac relay should be controled by the DME - this doesn't really explain removing the radio fuse being pulled stopping the current draw, unless the DME doesn't sleep because the radio doesn't let it - which sill doesn't make sense either really.
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Old 08-28-2011, 03:52 PM   #80
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I swapped the AC Clutch relay and it did not change the issue, I unplugged the FSU/FSR, it also had no effect. Will look at the AC clutch electrical connector soon.
I then focused on the radio. I actually think that this may be the bigger issue. I unplugged the radio (that connector on the back is a PITA to remove the first time) anyway, when I unplugged the 17 pin connector, the radio current draw went away. I measured some voltages at the pins of the 17 pin connector, The big brown ground wire goes to pin #15 so I used that as ground, I also measured Pin #7 (12.7 v) and Pin #9 (12.0 v). The odd things was that Pulling fuse #41 did not remove the voltage from pin #9.

http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthr...wiring+diagram

My next move is to unplug the clutch relay connector and learn more about the 17 pin connector voltages.

I finally had a few hrs sunday morning, I pulled all the fuses in tyhe main fuse box and measured the DC Voltage of each fuse position (there are 71 of them) in the fuse box on each side of the fuse receptacle. The top half, fuse 1-34 is switched (with the key) and had no voltage on either side, the bottom half (fuse 38-71 ) had voltage on one side, but not on the other as expected except for Fuse #41 ?? So fuse 41, which drives a ton of different things ( CD player, NAV, On board monitor, sub woofer box, Video, GPS, Radio, amplifier etc...). So I tracked down where F108 (Main 250 amp fuse) is located (which is about a foot away from the battery) in the RH trunk area. I decided to just disconnect the battery positive terminal and believe it or not the 12 vdc on the device side of Fuse 41 still had 12 volts with the battery disconnected, WTF, right ?? I started thinking charged up Capacitor, My mind wondered if this car stereo had an amplifier, which I found out it does, and the amp is located on the LH trunk area (it's the regular 10 channel amp, not the Harmon Kardon), I disconnected the amp and the .6 amp parastic drain went away. I found the large Red/Green (2.5 RT/GN) wire that carries the 12v for Fuse 41, where it goes into the AMP and tested that and ground, sure enough with the amp completely disconnected and on my desk it was putting out 12 v, I am hoping that the Amp somehow has a leaky capacitor or other issue that prevented it from turning off. I know that my home stereo will still have power on it for a few minutes, so it's possible that this is normal ?

Anyway, by disconnecting the amp, I think this stops the .6 amp parasitic drain. I opened the amp and couldn't see an obvious issue. It looked good, nothing melted. Anyone have a working 65.12 08 368 320 amp for $50 shipped ? Ebay has them for $65 shipped, does anyone know if there are other part numbers that will work besides 65.12 8 368 320 ?

http://www.bmwgm5.com/Stereo_Amp.htm

As far as Fuse # 63, I am going to relook at how long it takes for sleep mode and take new measurements. My car has the skirt underneath the engine so I may have to remove this to get to the AC relay connector. I might be able to reach it from the top with a mirror, I tried to get a picture of it. anyone know what type of connector it is and how it comes off.

I am going to focus on the amp issue since it seems to fix the issue.

While I was in the trunk, I installed my Grom audio MP3 adapter, it allows me to use the CD changer wiring and OEM head unit to play and control MP3 files stored on a flash drive or any USB drive. It also allows me to play Ipod, Bluetooth and also gives me a 3.5 mm stereo mini jack aux in.

http://gromaudio.com/store/usb_adapt...interface.html
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