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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 08-07-2011, 02:33 AM   #1
night0
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staggered or non?!

hi guys. What are the pros and cons? and which do you guys perfer. Im looking into Lm reps and the stagg is sexy, but tires are expensive.. then again the non stagg dosent look as nice as stagg. any suggestions? thanks
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:35 AM   #2
j_block
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depends if you wanna rotate tires or just buy new ones, but staggered does look cool tho
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:41 AM   #3
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Get staggered.
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:46 AM   #4
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I've never understood the whole staggered vs non-staggered business. To me,..wheels/tires look the same.

i bought, off CL, a set of all-fronts M3 wheels (I assume all-fronts, 'cause they were off a 2005 non-M3,...330ci,...and I've inspected them with a fine tooth comb,& offset look ALL the same from 1 wheel to the next). I bought these before I even KNEW what staggered M3 vs "all-fronts" meant,....so I think I did right. Do not want to even "think" of "rolling" my fenders...as I think of this as "butchering" my car. I refuse to go that route,...if I find out 2 of the wheels are staggered, I will dump these back on CL. But, I can pretty much guarantee my 1st born, that these are ALL the same wheels, as again, I looked,stared, inspected them closely for hours,....they ALL look the same. I haven't put these "all-fronts" on, yet,...been too lazy. They're 18 inch w/rubber, non-flats, but have been powder-coated gun-metal on inners w/outside lips still brushed aluminum,..look cool, but again, been too lazy to replace my 17" x 171's,.....kinda like my 171's as I've never seen another non-M3 have them.....quite rare, actually......so here the non-staggered (so I assume) M3 wheels/tires.. sit in my garage, collecting dust. Hope they are not "staggered",...again,. ..I do not think so. CL owner long gone, so can't ask that fellow enthusiast.)



So,. my point of this post is......



Can someone post 2 shots ....perhaps 3/4 shots of a car with staggered & another w/out? (Maybe my eyes deceive me,...but I can't tell at at glance, or even a long stare for that matter, if a BMW that drives by has staggered or non-staggered.) Please educate with 3/4 photo shots .......

Thx gurus.

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Old 08-07-2011, 06:52 AM   #5
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A staggered set of rims is typically: wider rim in the rear (meaning wider tire) and lower offset in rear. If you have staggered wheels you'd know.. Doesn't take an expert to notice
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:54 AM   #6
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Me likes staggered. Looks great. Only drawback is you cannot rotate tires front to rear (but you can side to side if you go through the trouble of re-mounting the tires - not worth it though).
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Old 08-07-2011, 06:56 AM   #7
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no no. u guys don't understand,...I KNOW what staggered is...just that,..."glancing" at a BMW going by,...I can't "tell" instantly.

So then,...this might be good for me......I most-certainly have 4 'all-fronts" sitting in my garage,....as remember, per above, I looked,stared for HOURS after I found out the problems (after) if one doesn't do their homework, re: offsets, when buying M3 wheels (like I hadn't done).......ie. a non-M3 owner has to make sure to purchase all-fronts, or a non-M3 owner is hooped.

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Old 08-07-2011, 07:20 AM   #8
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Well here's a fairly stock picture of a ZHP with staggered wheels, 225F 255R.



And here is an exaggerated example of another staggered setup.


Props to owners for the pictures, neither is my car. Search engines are an amazing tool. Note both are sedans too. The difference can be made even more noticeable on a coupe. I agree I can't tell "instantly" when a car drives by, but why do you need to. If you're driving behind someone with a staggered setup I'm pretty sure you could tell. I say this mainly because I'm sure you'd be thinking 'there's no way he could fit those same tires on the front'.

OP, sorry I'm just realizing that this isn't the answer to your question but more in response to another post in this thread. Personally if I was getting LM's I would get staggered.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:05 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by beeemerdude View Post
no no. u guys don't understand,...I KNOW what staggered is...just that,..."glancing" at a BMW going by,...I can't "tell" instantly.

So then,...this might be good for me......I most-certainly have 4 'all-fronts" sitting in my garage,....as remember, per above, I looked,stared for HOURS after I found out the problems (after) if one doesn't do their homework, re: offsets, when buying M3 wheels (like I hadn't done).......ie. a non-M3 owner has to make sure to purchase all-fronts, or a non-M3 owner is hooped.
thats the easy route... but with rolled fenders and some stretched tires on the rear, staggered M3 rims will fit a non-m


and i'd take staggered over non staggered, OP
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:23 AM   #10
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My previous '04 325i had a square setup and I never rotated the tires - just replaced the rears, fronts lasted 45k miles. To me rotating tires is more hassle than it's worth. My zhp's staggered setup is fine - Replaced rears at about 25k miles and fronts are still fine. So if you like the look and don't mind the extra $$ for the wider rears go staggered.
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Old 08-07-2011, 08:54 AM   #11
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You kids don't begin to know what, "Stagger," means. It was developed on circle track cars to make the car enter and leave the corner harder. The wheels and tires are not just smaller in front and bigger in back. Here is a photo showing stagger.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:11 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickbuilder View Post
You kids don't begin to know what, "Stagger," means. It was developed on circle track cars to make the car enter and leave the corner harder. The wheels and tires are not just smaller in front and bigger in back. Here is a photo showing stagger.
Please explain.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:36 AM   #13
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^^ I think he means it can also go so far as all four wheels are different sizes. I think the OP and posts after are likely referring to a daily driver. I don't care what kind of racing you are doing, I don't think anyone on this forum is running four different sized wheels on an E46.
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Old 08-07-2011, 09:45 AM   #14
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I don't know why you'd want wider rear tires, unless you have so much power that you overwhelm skinnier tires. Otherwise, changing to a "staggered" setup from a factory square setup is strictly for looks, and may adversely affect handling.

For an E46 that originally came with a factory square setup, putting wider tires in the rear generally will mean more understeer/push, because the skinnier front tires will give up the ghost first in turns. Why make your car plow like a John Deere? I like the fairly neutral handling my car has, and when I bought larger wheels I stuck with a square setup to keep it that way. I certainly don't have an issue with too much power.
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Old 08-07-2011, 10:21 AM   #15
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Please explain.
On a circle track car, the right rear tire is the largest of the 4. Next is the left rear, then the right front, then the left front. As you go into the turn, and get out of the throttle, the car wants to begin to turn left. you allow the car to take its, "Set," and then with the rear hanging out, you get back into the throttle. This holds the, "Set," and you are turning the front wheels away from the turn. As you leave the turn, you are all the way into the throttle, and the left front wheel comes up off the ground, and the car straightens up and you go down the chute. What you are calling stagger, is what we always referred to as running Bigs and Littles. Big wheels and tires on the rear, and smaller ones on the front. To see true stagger, look at the tires on the photo that I posted. This car is in the Set, and the throttle is in. The left front is clearly off the track.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:06 PM   #16
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I have a squared setup.

PROS:
- It was cheaper
- No fender rolling required
- Can easily rotate tires
- Less unsprung weight in the back

CONS:
- Doesn't get you 1337 status on teh netz
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:36 PM   #17
CylonRed
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If doing auto-x or HPDEs - non-staggard is better - less understeer. I now can pretty much tell at a glance if the rears are larger than the front.
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Old 08-07-2011, 12:58 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Jaundiced Outlook View Post
I don't know why you'd want wider rear tires, unless you have so much power that you overwhelm skinnier tires. Otherwise, changing to a "staggered" setup from a factory square setup is strictly for looks, and may adversely affect handling.

For an E46 that originally came with a factory square setup, putting wider tires in the rear generally will mean more understeer/push, because the skinnier front tires will give up the ghost first in turns. Why make your car plow like a John Deere? I like the fairly neutral handling my car has, and when I bought larger wheels I stuck with a square setup to keep it that way. I certainly don't have an issue with too much power.
Actually non-m e46 did come with staggered setup from factory.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Stickbuilder View Post
On a circle track car, the right rear tire is the largest of the 4. Next is the left rear, then the right front, then the left front. As you go into the turn, and get out of the throttle, the car wants to begin to turn left. you allow the car to take its, "Set," and then with the rear hanging out, you get back into the throttle. This holds the, "Set," and you are turning the front wheels away from the turn. As you leave the turn, you are all the way into the throttle, and the left front wheel comes up off the ground, and the car straightens up and you go down the chute. What you are calling stagger, is what we always referred to as running Bigs and Littles. Big wheels and tires on the rear, and smaller ones on the front. To see true stagger, look at the tires on the photo that I posted. This car is in the Set, and the throttle is in. The left front is clearly off the track.
That's interesting i didn't know that.
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Old 08-07-2011, 02:42 PM   #19
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I got 18", 9.5's in back 8.5's in front. Did not have to roll fenders. 35-42 offset. 330ci. I think staggered looks better. On the other hand, it's more practical to get non staggered, you can rotate. I think really it's just a matter of money and personal preference really.
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Old 08-07-2011, 04:58 PM   #20
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Actually non-m e46 did come with staggered setup from factory.
I'm sure some did. My point was that if your E46 came from the factory with a square setup, putting wider tires in the rear (without changing anything else in the suspension or drivetrain) will give you more understeer.
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