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Old 10-01-2012, 12:29 PM   #121
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Originally Posted by E46Mango View Post
lol this isn't a "my d!ck is bigger than yours contest." i was referring to my particular car vs a stock zhp suspension. meaning if you bought a new zhp, you'd throw the entire suspension in the garbage anyway.

and yes keyword later sport package. not all e46s are equal. theres so many variations.

face it, your car is a 330 like the rest of ours.
Besides (potentially) the rack, the CAs, and cams and redline I never really said it wasn't. You actually offered some inaccurate differentiations. You are hilarious.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:32 PM   #122
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Besides (potentially) the rack, the CAs, and cams and redline I never really said it wasn't. You actually offered some inaccurate differentiations. You are hilarious.
i think i've finally memorized the numbers in your name. don't get offended if i mess them up though in a week or so
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:38 PM   #123
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And again don't try and turn this argument on suspension differences now. This is still on YOU ZHP93878. You and your buddy Sean are STILL claiming the rack is different. Or have you given up on that yet?
you don't really have any evidence to claim that the rack is the same, or different other than BMW part numbers.
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Old 10-01-2012, 12:43 PM   #124
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you don't really have any evidence to claim that the rack is the same, or different other than BMW part numbers.
i'm not the one making a claim. an atheist doesn't have to prove sh!t to a jesus freak.
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:10 PM   #125
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if you like to settle your debate, please call BMW with your 330ci-zhp VIN and ask them for a quote and part number. then report back with your findings. also have someone else call for any year 2002-2006 330Ci-zsp (non-zhp) and report back the part number they're ordering. i would do it myself but know you won't take my word for it.
everyone has already established it's the same ratio across the BMW community and forums. we do this for the benefit of others to save money and have correct info. if you are going to insist it's not correct then you have to do your small part to back this up. otherwise you're just being selfish wanting to say you have something unique. fair enough?
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What did you ask for? I'm sorry I don't feel like reading through 5 pages to find out.
...Scientifically speaking you have made a good case, but you have not made a case that is fullproof.
There. We wouldn't want you to have to read the thread and where it has progressed. When it's easier to argue
Really now, what have you provided in this thread as any proof or even one link to support your stance? Compared to what we have for the community?
Do you really want to be the reason people with a late model 330 spend extra money for a "zhp" rack when it's the same?
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Old 10-01-2012, 01:49 PM   #126
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And the discussion turned directions. SeanC asked the valid question, if it isn't the rack that makes the ZHP handle/feel better (since it isn't just the CAs), then what is? ..That's where the thread is going.
wait a minute, so now you're onboard?
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And nobody is claiming the difference in feel is being due to the rack. However, the fact is ZHP turns faster than a ZSP. The claim is there is not enough research to pinpoint the exact reason why.
"Nobody"? Um just you and member ZHP34867 have since your first posts in this thread!

Ok if the rack part is settled(or allowed to rest). Then END Thread.

now make a New thread asking your new question. you can take all the new stuff about that over there. Let's eliminate this clutter.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:08 PM   #127
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Is there a difference is a "ZF unit" and a "TRW unit"? Trying to get some more useful info out there for people (and myself).
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:19 PM   #128
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you don't really have any evidence to claim that the rack is the same, or different other than BMW part numbers.
Part numbers should be sufficient evidence. Why would BMW keep the same part number for two different racks? Why would they make it impossible to order a replacement ZHP rack if they were indeed different?

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I have a ZHP bud. The sway bars are 23.5mm and 18mm rear, exactly the same as later sport package cars. I have confirmed this on friends cars. The dampers have the same part numbers as 03+ sport dampers. The springs may or may not be different, but the consensus (that you always seem to love) thinks they are not.

Please give me more misinformation while I have the car right in front of me.

I didn't get into all of your quality modifications, I only mentioned your springs. At best they keep handling the same and make the car look better. And your tires are most likely just about as sticky as the stock Pilot Sports.

I modified mine too. I have RCs- which weigh 17lbs each (on my own scale) and Super Sports. I have Rogue RSMs, the same FCABs as you and 25mm front, 20mm rear sway bars. By the way they are a great mod that you should look into. My track is just as wide as yours. Not to mention I have a lower center of gravity. Why we are comparing everything I don't know, but my car will spank yours on a tight track.

And the discussion turned directions. SeanC asked the valid question, if it isn't the rack that makes the ZHP handle/feel better (since it isn't just the CAs), then what is it? You responded with a bunch of false "facts". That's where the thread is going.
The difference can be accounted for with the control arms, the wheels, and the tires. Anything beyond that is placebo effect.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:22 PM   #129
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Ehh, no. ZHPs are nice, but it's just a "package." The way my car sits now handles better and accelerates faster than a ZHP.
that's true only if you have spent thousands towards mods.

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Any ZHP would need to be fully rebuilt anyway (to my standard--the stock suspension would be thrown in the garbage) and so would a sh!t load of other parts.
what do you mean "fully rebuilt"? say for instance you buy a 40k mile '05 ZHP that has been well maintained. what exactly needs to be fully rebuilt?

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In the end the only thing it would have going for it would be the gloss trim and maybe the 6-speed transmission (which you can get in a 2003 330i non-ZHP anyway)
so even if you "throw the stock suspension in the garbage" (which would make no sense from a resale standpoint), the upgraded engine, exhaust, 3.07 diff, M-Tech2 body kit, perf leather M3 wheel, and alum. cube trim (ok not for everyone but again has resale value) have nothing going for them? how exactly do you figure that?

i'm an all-around E46 enthusiast, i love everything from 323's to HPF M's, but the way you talk, you're sounding like a whiney little non-ZHP owning b*tch. my initial post was in jest, not so much now lol.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:27 PM   #130
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Is there a difference is a "ZF unit" and a "TRW unit"? Trying to get some more useful info out there for people (and myself).
Probably. I don't think I've ever seen a non ZF unit in a late model 330 though.
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Old 10-01-2012, 02:41 PM   #131
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that's true only if you have spent thousands towards mods.



what do you mean "fully rebuilt"? say for instance you buy a 40k mile '05 ZHP that has been well maintained. what exactly needs to be fully rebuilt?



so even if you "throw the stock suspension in the garbage" (which would make no sense from a resale standpoint), the upgraded engine, exhaust, 3.07 diff, M-Tech2 body kit, perf leather M3 wheel, and alum. cube trim (ok not for everyone but again has resale value) have nothing going for them? how exactly do you figure that?

i'm an all-around E46 enthusiast, i love everything from 323's to HPF M's, but the way you talk, you're sounding like a whiney little non-ZHP owning b*tch. my initial post was in jest, not so much now lol.
Selling worn suspension components is basically fraud. By 50k miles, your stock BMW struts/shocks are heavily degraded, if not completely blown. Same goes for the rest of the components.

And what needs to be rebuilt? Hah! You don't know me very well and how I treat my BMWs, do you?

As for your initial question, refer to post #129.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:00 PM   #132
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i've hung around here long enough to understand you. personally, i understand and appreciate the maintenance required on these fine cars. i have done quite a bit on my car (click my sig to see how thorough) but to say the entire thing needs to be rebuilt @50k miles is asinine. if you want to replace every bolt and working part with a brand new OEM replacement just for the hell of it, that's cool, and congrats. but that's not at all required for your average enthusiast to get many years of solid reliable performance out of their E46.

also, you cleverly dodged my question of how the list of ZHP upgrades over a standard 330 ZSP has "nothing going for it" as you put.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:07 PM   #133
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i've hung around here long enough to understand you. personally, i understand and appreciate the maintenance required on these fine cars. i have done quite a bit on my car (click my sig to see how thorough) but to say the entire thing needs to be rebuilt @50k miles is asinine. if you want to replace every bolt and working part with a brand new OEM replacement just for the hell of it, that's cool, and congrats. but that's not at all required for your average enthusiast to get many years of solid reliable performance out of their E46.

also, you cleverly dodged my question of how the list of ZHP upgrades over a standard 330 ZSP has "nothing going for it" as you put.
I did not dodge it. Post #129 explains it for me.

Some say he has the brightest headlights in all of PA. His stock struts/shocks were still good at 90,000 miles. His BMW coding skills are unrivaled. He's called The Phantom
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:29 PM   #134
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Probably. I don't think I've ever seen a non ZF unit in a late model 330 though.
So if you were going to swap, a ZF unit would be the preferred one to swap to?

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Old 10-01-2012, 03:32 PM   #135
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I did not dodge it. Post #129 explains it for me.
what i got out of post 129 is that you agree with terraphantm in that the only factors for the ZHP's advantage with regards to handling over the 330 ZSP are the control arms, the tires, and the wheels. that's fine.

that doesn't answer my question of how do the rest of the ZHP upgrades not mean anything in terms of performance gains in relation to a standard 330. i think the documented dyno and 0-60 data is undeniable.
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Old 10-01-2012, 03:33 PM   #136
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So if you were going to swap, a ZF unit would be the preferred one to swap to?

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Apparently the non-M E36 Z3 rack is a great because it has the quickest ratio (probably the best swap) but I haven't seen it done personally. E30/E36/E46 racks are all interchangeable, AFAIK. So it should work.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:04 PM   #137
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Apparently the non-M E36 Z3 rack is a great because it has the quickest ratio (probably the best swap) but I haven't seen it done personally. E30/E36/E46 racks are all interchangeable, AFAIK. So it should work.
I have one of these in my e30.
My dad also has one in his z3 obviously.
It's pretty sweet.
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Old 10-01-2012, 04:55 PM   #138
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Part numbers should be sufficient evidence. Why would BMW keep the same part number for two different racks? Why would they make it impossible to order a replacement ZHP rack if they were indeed different?


The difference can be accounted for with the control arms, the wheels, and the tires. Anything beyond that is placebo effect.
There is no definitve proof as to that. Yes the BMW part numbers are the same, but the ZF numbers could be different. If anyone would investigate that aspect I will rest my case. But no one will, so I will not. The BMW part numbers are indeed the same.

Having said that- there is no need to step out of line or continue with this discussion (which is going nowhere), so I am done with this thread. Next summer when I have more time I may attempt to follow up with ZF or maybe BMWNA.
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dont listen to these fuQ faces... just go to a junk yard and get a used complete left rear end. i cracked my left rear control arm on the highway because i was driving w/o shocks... lol! ***Was too busy caking on these bitches instead of taking care my car!***

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Old 10-02-2012, 12:19 AM   #139
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There is no definitve proof as to that. Yes the BMW part numbers are the same, but the ZF numbers could be different. If anyone would investigate that aspect I will rest my case. But no one will, so I will not. The BMW part numbers are indeed the same.

Having said that- there is no need to step out of line or continue with this discussion (which is going nowhere), so I am done with this thread. Next summer when I have more time I may attempt to follow up with ZF or maybe BMWNA.
That's seriously grasping for straws. For every other model BMW out there, if there was a different steering rack, it got a different BMW part number. Why would the ZHP be the one exception?

The ZF numbers aren't much to go by anyway. They've been known to be the same across different racks (for example, the 330/ZHP rack and the Z4MC racks have the same ZF p/n stamped into the housing itself, but the two racks are obviously different). ZF is known to use the same rack housing with different internals. The BMW part numbers is how you're supposed to differentiate them.


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Apparently the non-M E36 Z3 rack is a great because it has the quickest ratio (probably the best swap) but I haven't seen it done personally. E30/E36/E46 racks are all interchangeable, AFAIK. So it should work.
330/ZHP rack is quicker. Quickest rack that can be swapped into our cars is the Z4MC rack with a 12.8:1 ratio. Unfortunately, these are also rather tough to come by.

Tightness may be a different story if the hydraulics are done differently.


BTW: Anyone who complains about the steering feel of *any* E46 needs to go drive some other cars. My roommate and I invested in an E30 to keep miles off of our "nicer" cars... it's a fun little car, but my god this thing's steering is the lightest (and longest ratio) I've ever used. BMW's come a long way in some respects, enjoy what you've got.
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Old 10-02-2012, 09:51 AM   #140
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That's seriously grasping for straws. For every other model BMW out there, if there was a different steering rack, it got a different BMW part number. Why would the ZHP be the one exception?

The ZF numbers aren't much to go by anyway. They've been known to be the same across different racks (for example, the 330/ZHP rack and the Z4MC racks have the same ZF p/n stamped into the housing itself, but the two racks are obviously different). ZF is known to use the same rack housing with different internals. The BMW part numbers is how you're supposed to differentiate them.




330/ZHP rack is quicker. Quickest rack that can be swapped into our cars is the Z4MC rack with a 12.8:1 ratio. Unfortunately, these are also rather tough to come by.

Tightness may be a different story if the hydraulics are done differently.


BTW: Anyone who complains about the steering feel of *any* E46 needs to go drive some other cars. My roommate and I invested in an E30 to keep miles off of our "nicer" cars... it's a fun little car, but my god this thing's steering is the lightest (and longest ratio) I've ever used. BMW's come a long way in some respects, enjoy what you've got.
Good to know. I read that also but wasn't sure about the Z4MC.

And I know what you mean about the E30 steering. it's so light and feathery. but overall it makes the car really fun and tossable. I kinda like it. Big school bus steering wheel and all. I bought my E30 with that same intention but I ended up driving my "nicer" cars daily. I just missed the comfort and isolation compared to the E30.. so I sold it to a friend. should post a pic of your E30.
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