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General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

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Old 09-10-2011, 10:21 PM   #21
bwallace530
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But for that sub-frame support you also need the three piece rear strut brace.

So 380 and 485 pretty spendy not knowing how it performs but it looks pretty solid.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:29 PM   #22
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Yea it is a bit pricey but sure looks like it's worth every peny.
I would want to paint it though.
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Old 09-10-2011, 10:57 PM   #23
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Looks awsome and I want it too comes in black also.

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Old 09-11-2011, 12:01 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by newe46fan View Post


Say that to the engineers who designed the Porsche 924 back in 1978. I've got one-- ALL of the subframe attachment points are INTACT and flat strut towers... The car has seen many different states and OVER 7 YRS of tracking and AUTOCROSSING by myself along with millions of clutch drops etc on solid upper strut mounts, solid rear subframe mounts and monoball bearings on 600 pound springs up front and 800 rear along with many winters, road salt, poop, you name it!!!! ( not anymore, running 400 pound springs up front and took the coils out. just running koni's and torsion bars in the rear now.

It could just be that Porsche/VW know how to cost cut their cars without catastrophic longetivity issues.

Let's face it the advent of CAD design and cost cutting to increase profits hurt car companies and car longetivity; It is not just the engineer's fault; They don't over engineer vehicles like the used to in the old days because they are forced to cost cut.
Your posts make me
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:21 AM   #25
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Old 09-11-2011, 06:02 AM   #26
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IIRC,

The e46 sub frame was designed by engineers/Mechanical Engineers with University training and tons of experience.
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Old 09-11-2011, 07:54 AM   #27
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As an engineer I can tell you that I work based on a set of requirements, nothing more than that. If the requirement is sufficient for sales and marketing that is what the company is going to go with. Engineers do NOT have the freedom to do the best possible, just what is required (if they want to keep their jobs). It's not unlike any other profession r&d has budgets and constraints.
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Old 09-11-2011, 08:03 AM   #28
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As an engineer I can tell you that I work based on a set of requirements, nothing more than that. If the requirement is sufficient for sales and marketing that is what the company is going to go with. Engineers do NOT have the freedom to do the best possible, just what is required (if they want to keep their jobs). It's not unlike any other profession r&d has budgets and constraints.
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Old 09-11-2011, 09:19 AM   #29
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Anybody want to make the plunge?
I read a little further in to it and looks like it either comes black or aluminum.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:08 AM   #30
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Anybody interested in a group buy? I'll be contacting the company monday for more details.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:22 AM   #31
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As an engineer I can tell you that I work based on a set of requirements, nothing more than that. If the requirement is sufficient for sales and marketing that is what the company is going to go with. Engineers do NOT have the freedom to do the best possible, just what is required (if they want to keep their jobs). It's not unlike any other profession r&d has budgets and constraints.
This is what I was conveying in my previous post.
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Old 09-11-2011, 10:24 AM   #32
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Say that to the engineers who designed the Porsche 924 back in 1978. I've got one-- ALL of the subframe attachment points are INTACT and flat strut towers... The car has seen many different states and OVER 7 YRS of tracking and AUTOCROSSING by myself along with millions of clutch drops etc on solid upper strut mounts, solid rear subframe mounts and monoball bearings on 600 pound springs up front and 800 rear along with many winters, road salt, poop, you name it!!!! ( not anymore, running 400 pound springs up front and took the coils out. just running koni's and torsion bars in the rear now.

It could just be that Porsche/VW know how to cost cut their cars without catastrophic longetivity issues.

Let's face it the advent of CAD design and cost cutting to increase profits hurt car companies and car longetivity; It is not just the engineer's fault; They don't over engineer vehicles like the used to in the old days because they are forced to cost cut.
Yes, CAD design allowed more complex calculations and the engineers realized (thought) that they could get away with more, hence thinner sheet metal and things like that. The E30 does not really have any of these problems either. You see them increase with computer capabilities.

BTW, Audi and VW are major fvckups in almost every realm of reliability; you can't name five consecutive years that they haven't had a major debacle.

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anyways....
I don't know why we are talking about whether or not there is a problem to be addressed with our subframes. I don't think it is a secret that there is a problem.
Why don't you call them up and ask? It will help the forum and really isn't hard. No one here really knows.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:41 AM   #33
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Why don't you call them up and ask? It will help the forum and really isn't hard. No one here really knows.
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I'll be contacting the company monday for more details.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:49 AM   #34
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That's a pretty cool alternative to a roll cage.. maybe tie a bolt-in cage to that thing.

I have to wonder how the brace would make the car act when the bushings start to wear, and other stuff like that. But I don't see how more bracing could never be a negative thing when it comes to securing subframes to chassis.

Someone buy this for me and I'll take care of the rest.
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Old 09-11-2011, 11:54 AM   #35
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As an engineer I can tell you that I work based on a set of requirements, nothing more than that. If the requirement is sufficient for sales and marketing that is what the company is going to go with. Engineers do NOT have the freedom to do the best possible, just what is required (if they want to keep their jobs). It's not unlike any other profession r&d has budgets and constraints.
I am also a mechanical engineer and my hands are tied up by marketing and budget constraints too! The ignorant answers on this thread are obviously from non-engineers.

That Mason Engineering rear floor support is scary. It was never crash tested, it may solve one problem and cause an even wore one....... I could go and on the engineering validation that needs to be done to make certain that a modification of that serious of a nature is fit for use.

The average Joe, could not even begin to comprehend the level that engineers work at.

Leave engineering to engineers and these tuner shops if they advertise engineering as a serve to the public...they are required by law to have a Licensed professional engineer on staff. Criminal and civil penalties can be taken by the state boards against these entities.

Last edited by Optio; 09-11-2011 at 12:04 PM.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:00 PM   #36
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I am also a mechanical engineer and my hands are tied up by marketing and budget constraints too! The ignorant answers on this thread are obviously from non-engineers.

That Mason Engineering rear floor support is scary. It was never crash tested, it may solve one problem and cause an even wore one....... I could go and on one the engineering validation that needs to be done to make certain that a modification of that serious of a nature is fit for use.

The average Joe, could not even begin to comprehend the level that engineers work at.

Leave engineering to engineers and these tuner shops if they advertise engineering as a serve to the public...they are required by law to have a Licensed professional engineer on staff. Other criminal and civil penalties can be taken by the state boards.
So let me ask you. How can op go about and anyone else interested in this product how can we make sure its been tested?

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Old 09-11-2011, 12:13 PM   #37
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So let me ask you. How can op go about and anyone else interested in this product how can we make sure its been tested?

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The costs associated with crash testing a car is high. CAD modeling with the use of simulation software can provide many answers to the deformation of materials from impact. However, this is not a final word for validation....an actual crash test needs to be done.

Who knows what that floor support device will do upon a T-bone accident. Would it break free and take out the rear passenger seat and occupant like a knife?

There really is not much that can be done to shore up the rear floor without bringing in unexpected effects. The Turner reinforcing kit has much less risk, but all that welding to the body, can effect the material at the weld zone and that can become a failure point from fatigue.

BMW does have a structural foam kit that was designed to reinforce the rear floor. I have not seen the data that proves that it solves the issue.

Last edited by Optio; 09-11-2011 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:36 PM   #38
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I am going to solve this once and for all...
I will be buying this reinforcement, I will then need a volunteer to drive my car sideways in to a tree, it will be best to have someone in the rear seat (oops i don't have one) floor it is...

This will certainly tell us what we need to know!

I wonder how many cars were crash tested in the design of all the different rear strut bars?
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Old 09-11-2011, 12:57 PM   #39
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I am going to solve this once and for all...
I will be buying this reinforcement, I will then need a volunteer to drive my car sideways in to a tree, it will be best to have someone in the rear seat (oops i don't have one) floor it is...

This will certainly tell us what we need to know!

I wonder how many cars were crash tested in the design of all the different rear strut bars?
Go for it This is how natural selection works in cleaning out the gene pool for those with lesser gray matter.
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Old 09-11-2011, 01:10 PM   #40
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Go for it This is how natural selection works in cleaning out the gene pool for those with lesser gray matter.
Are you talking about the volunteer?
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