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E46 Xi Forum
The E46 XI was produced from 01-05 in sedan and touring body styles. Powered by either a 2.5L inline 6 in the 325xi or a 3.0L inline 6 330xi. Discuss all thing about BMW AWD E46 'Xi' here.

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Old 09-13-2011, 03:05 PM   #21
chuckb
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"One of the significant changes from the previous E30 ix is that the E46/16 does not use a viscous coupling or limited slip differential. The all-wheel drive system has largely been taken from the X5 concept. It uses two open differentials and a single speed transfer case. Power distribution is 38% to the front and 62% to the rear, giving the E46/16 the feel of a genuine rear-drive road car."

"The transfer case is only one speed and does not use any viscous coupler. The transmission ratio of the planetary gear set provides a fixed torque transfer of 38:62 (front:Rear). The output speeds to the front and rear axle are the same (1:1). The input to the Planetary Carrier is from the output shaft of the transmission.
The Sun Gear of the Planetary assembly is turned by the Planetary Gears, the Sungear then provides torque to the Transfer Gear. The Transfer Gear drives the Output via gear-to-gear contact. The front axle is driven via a flange connected to the output gear."

^This PDF was posted to e46fanatics before.

Last edited by chuckb; 09-13-2011 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:09 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post
It's sort of funny you guys spent 4 pages throwing **** against the wall instead of just looking up the answer on google.

What you guys seemed to decide the e46 transfer case does is actually what the ix e30 transfer case did/does. It had a " viscous coupling integrated into the planetary gear center differential". The e46 does not.

It's gears and just gears. Nothing else.

For what it's worth my late 88 ix was better in the snow than my 01 xi too. I will regret selling that car until the day i die..... My new m3 at the time jaded me
I too was an ix owner. I wish my 330xi had the same drive train!
In my opinion a much better and simple system than the E46.
Viscous coupled TC, and a viscous limited slip rear diff. Up to 90% of the power could be transfered to either front or rear. Let's look at what DSC means, Dynamic STABLITY Control. It utilizes the braking system to help you nagotiate turns on low friction conditions. The car has open diffs on the front and rear axels and utilizes the brakes on the wheels to make make up for the lack of limited slip diffs.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:13 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post
e30 ix:

Full-time all wheel drive. Viscous coupling locking center differential with torque split 37% front / 63% rear. The viscous coupling is integrated into the planetary gear center differential. viscous coupling locks the differential when wheel slipping occurs and transfers up to 90% of torque to the axle that has traction. Viscous coupling locking rear differential distributes torque between the rear wheels.

^ This is what your thinking of.
No. I've said repeatedly that, as far as I've been educated, the t-case is open. The e30's VC is a type of LSD.

the e30 AWD system was actually pretty good. Better than that of the e46 anyway.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:15 PM   #24
TiAgXi
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Originally Posted by chuckb View Post
"One of the significant changes from the previous E30 ix is that the E46/16 does not use a viscous coupling or limited slip differential. The all-wheel drive system has largely been taken from the X5 concept. It uses two open differentials and a single speed transfer case. Power distribution is 38% to the front and 62% to the rear, giving the E46/16 the feel of a genuine rear-drive road car."

"The transfer case is only one speed and does not use any viscous coupler. The transmission ratio of the planetary gear set provides a fixed torque transfer of 38:62 (front:Rear). The output speeds to the front and rear axle are the same (1:1). The input to the Planetary Carrier is from the output shaft of the transmission.
The Sun Gear of the Planetary assembly is turned by the Planetary Gears, the Sungear then provides torque to the Transfer Gear. The Transfer Gear drives the Output via gear-to-gear contact. The front axle is driven via a flange connected to the output gear."

^This PDF was posted to e46fanatics before.
I understand what the literature says. But I don't understand how it jives with the two videos I posted, neither of which you have explained.

BTW, this is the part that doesn't jive:

Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post
"The output speeds to the front and rear axle are the same (1:1).
The rest isn't in debate. Like i've said repeatedly, power/torque distribution doesn't have anything to do with whether it is open, locked or LSD.

Last edited by TiAgXi; 09-13-2011 at 03:17 PM.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:37 PM   #25
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as far as I've been educated, the t-case is open. The e30's VC is a type of LSD.
Where did your education come from then?????? You havent cited a damn thing except a video you lack the comprehension to understand!!!!! Uggggggh.

Listen to Jasonbimmer, he's dead right. You just don't understand how differentials work.

Read the PDF from BMW man!!!!!

Here's ANOTHER ONE:

http://www.unofficialbmw.com/images/e46.pdf

"the E46/16 does not use a viscous coupling or limited slip differential."

If it doesn't have either of those things then what DOES the differential (EDIT: Transfer case) have that makes it "open" like you say??? WHat does it have??????????

Do you think it's lying???? Do you think i've been making these pdf's on my computer myself to trick you?????

I've shown you:

-multiple documents from bmw
-explanations from bmw.com
-animated examples of differentials
-broken down schematics of the internals of the transfer case with a picture by picture, step by step, of power transfer.

and you've shown me a car jacked up on jackstands with it's wheels spinning at idle.

You want to REALLY blow your mind???? Turn that car off and spin one of those front wheels forward, the opposite wheel will spin BACKWARDS!!!!! :excit ed:

You must have a car that only drives in circles!!!!!!!

It's perfectly normal for that to happen just like Jasonbimmer said. But you can't understand. So forget what you can't understand and look at the myriad of other proof i've shown you.


THE T CASE IS NOT OPEN.

Last edited by chuckb; 09-13-2011 at 03:51 PM.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:43 PM   #26
chuckb
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Originally Posted by TiAgXi View Post
BTW, this is the part that doesn't jive:
Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckb View Post
"The output speeds to the front and rear axle are the same (1:1).
The rest isn't in debate. Like i've said repeatedly, power/torque distribution doesn't have anything to do with whether it is open, locked or LSD.
THIS is the part you don't understand???????? If the back differential was sent a higher speed than the front diff then your back wheels would spin faster than the front always.

Now how the hell would that work????

C'mon man.... Pretty soon i'm going to have to go slam my head in the door....
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:50 PM   #27
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All I'm asking for is the answer to this simple question: if the t-case is locked like you say, then how is that the car, at idle, spins the fron wheels but not the rear wheels? The engine is the mechanism turning the front wheels, is it not? Power is going through the t-case, is it not? If it is not the transfer case, what is this magical mechanism that allows the rear wheels to remain motionless?

Answer that question and you win. Otherwise, the transfer case is open. And you don't have to put in large bold letters that the e46 doesn't have a LSD. everyone knows that. you're emphasizing something that was never in dispute.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:53 PM   #28
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Also, jasonbimmer says that the transfer case has a worm gear. it does not. it has a planetary gear. but it doesn't matter because you seem to agree that the t-case is not limited slip. that leaves two options: locked or open. I say open, you say locked, apparently. my video demonstrates that you're wrong.
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Old 09-13-2011, 03:53 PM   #29
TiAgXi
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also, calm down. a threat to slam your head against the door? That's what my 4 year old does.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:08 PM   #30
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tiagxi answered it best with the front right wheel raised up, meaning if only one wheel is on slippery ice (the 3 others on dry ground) with the dsc NOT working the car delivers all its power to the spinning wheel and u will go nowhere. this explains why we cant turn off the dsc completely, cuz if we did our cars would be more useless than the rwd ones on snow. meaning our 4wd system is crap. to answer OPs question the xis dont work without the dsc, there is a reason why u cant turn it off, we are not smarter than the engineers who made these things. and yes audis are a lot better on snow ive owned both
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:19 PM   #31
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Originally Posted by e46alfonso View Post
tiagxi answered it best with the front right wheel raised up, meaning if only one wheel is on slippery ice (the 3 others on dry ground) with the dsc NOT working the car delivers all its power to the spinning wheel and u will go nowhere. this explains why we cant turn off the dsc completely, cuz if we did our cars would be more useless than the rwd ones on snow. meaning our 4wd system is crap. to answer OPs question the xis dont work without the dsc, there is a reason why u cant turn it off, we are not smarter than the engineers who made these things. and yes audis are a lot better on snow ive owned both
Not true.

With dsc truly disabled, If the front right wheel is on ice then the front axle will transfer its power to the spinning wheel.

The rear of the car will not be affected by the front slipping and the power would not be transferred from the rear to the front tire slipping.

The front's power going to the slipping tire is just how open diffs work. Such a situation doesnt mean the AWD isn't working. Its is working. The addition of dsc just makes the AWD work better by managing the open diffs.

also the OP asked if the dsc was "turned off". And you said it best, you cant turn that part off. So it's not really relevent to the OP's question.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:23 PM   #32
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lets say we put Limited Slip Diff in the rear and in the front.

In this case, with REAL LSDs will the 4 WD system work if DSC is OFF 100 %?
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:29 PM   #33
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lets say we put Limited Slip Diff in the rear and in the front.

In this case, with REAL LSDs will the 4 WD system work if DSC is OFF 100 %?
Yup.

From the how stuff works link i posted earlier:

Clutch-type Limited Slip Differential:

Image courtesy Eaton Automotive Group's Torque Control Products Division
The clutch-type limited slip differential adds a spring pack and a set of clutches to the open differential.
The clutch-type LSD is probably the most common version of the limited slip differential

This type of LSD has all of the same components as an open differential, but it adds a spring pack and a set of clutches. Some of these have a cone clutch that is just like the synchronizers in a manual transmission.

The spring pack pushes the side gears against the clutches, which are attached to the cage. Both side gears spin with the cage when both wheels are moving at the same speed, and the clutches aren't really needed -- the only time the clutches step in is when something happens to make one wheel spin faster than the other, as in a turn. The clutches fight this behavior, wanting both wheels to go the same speed. If one wheel wants to spin faster than the other, it must first overpower the clutch. The stiffness of the springs combined with the friction of the clutch determine how much torque it takes to overpower it.

Getting back to the situation in which one drive wheel is on the ice and the other one has good traction: With this limited slip differential, even though the wheel on the ice is not able to transmit much torque to the ground, the other wheel will still get the torque it needs to move. The torque supplied to the wheel not on the ice is equal to the amount of torque it takes to overpower the clutches. The result is that you can move forward, although still not with the full power of your car.

The e30 iX had a rear Viscous coupling locking rear differential distributes torque between the rear wheels.

Viscous Coupling:

Th*e viscous coupling is often found in all-wheel-drive vehicles. It is commonly used to link the back wheels to the front wheels so that when one set of wheels starts to slip, torque will be transferred to the other set.

The viscous coupling has two sets of plates inside a sealed housing that is filled with a thick fluid, as shown in below. One set of plates is connected to each output shaft. Under normal conditions, both sets of plates and the viscous fluid spin at the same speed. When one set of wheels tries to spin faster, perhaps because it is slipping, the set of plates corresponding to those wheels spins faster than the other. The viscous fluid, stuck between the plates, tries to catch up with the faster disks, dragging the slower disks along. This transfers more torque to the slower moving wheels -- the wheels that are not slipping.

When a car is turning, the difference in speed between the wheels is not as large as when one wheel is slipping. The faster the plates are spinning relative to each other, the more torque the viscous coupling transfers. The coupling does not interfere with turns because the amount of torque transferred during a turn is so small. However, this also highlights a disadvantage of the viscous coupling: No torque transfer will occur until a wheel actually starts slipping.

A simple experiment with an egg will help explain the behavior of the viscous coupling. If you set an egg on the kitchen table, the shell and the yolk are both stationary. If you suddenly spin the egg, the shell will be moving at a faster speed than the yolk for a second, but the yolk will quickly catch up. To prove that the yolk is spinning, once you have the egg spinning quickly stop it and then let go -- the egg will start to spin again (unless it is hard boiled). In this experiment, we used the friction between the shell and the yolk to apply force to the yolk, speeding it up. When we stopped the shell, that friction -- between the still-moving yolk and the shell -- applied force to the shell, causing it to speed up. In a viscous coupling, the force is applied between the fluid and the sets of plates in the same way as between the yolk and the shell.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:38 PM   #34
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lets say we put Limited Slip Diff in the rear and in the front.

In this case, with REAL LSDs will the 4 WD system work if DSC is OFF 100 %?
Not unless you also had some kind of LSD or locked center, which the car doesnt have.
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Old 09-13-2011, 04:55 PM   #35
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Not unless you also had some kind of LSD or locked center, which the car doesnt have.

I'd love to hear you explain some of the stuff you say. Instead of stating it as-a-matter-of-factly.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:01 PM   #36
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You still haven't answered my question...
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:12 PM   #37
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Yes i did but you just can't seem to understand. I'm not going to waste my time being your tutor. Everyone has told you you are wrong except alfonso who was wrong himself.

It's obnoxious your giving people stupid advice when you don't understand what youre talking about and cant even explain the advice you're giving.

I've shown you TONS of proof that the t case is fixed. It doesn't change. Believe what you want. But you're basing it all on a car that drives in circles!!

Drivetrain is silly like that, when you lift the car up it behaves differently. If the car isn't behaving how you expect lifted up in the air, then put it back on the ground. BMW didn't make the car to fly.

On a side note:

what do you think BMW would say if you called them and said your car doesnt drive correctly while suspended in the air???????
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:14 PM   #38
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Not unless you also had some kind of LSD or locked center, which the car doesnt have.
Is it possible to modify and make the center (transfer case) Locked?
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:15 PM   #39
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and jasonbimmer said the front diff had a worm gear.

You don't want to listen. You just want to argue.
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Old 09-13-2011, 05:19 PM   #40
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