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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:14 PM   #21
diablorojo
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I hve faith the stock internals will hold, yes it's just the head gasket for now. Don't want to change out internals until I know the car can tune for reliability. Once it runs, I will stroke it to 3.2 and lower compression drastically and turn up boost. If something breaks I'll fix it. you all have valid points but since no one knows an exact HP that the internals fail, I'm going to chance it. The car is being reassembled as we speak. The only things I don't have are the turbo and turbo oil lines.

I would like to know how much HP a T72 puts out with a 9am waste gate...I want 600whp (yes I could have done a turbo build I know, just not the way I choose to go).

What's the difference with hpf fuel rails?
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:17 PM   #22
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Also...I'm trying to identify the issues with the tuning....I'm going to get a custom tune I just don't see why this build would be outside the capabilities of tuning...
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:46 PM   #23
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In before the explosion.

(j/k, interested to see how this turns out)
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Old 10-31-2011, 12:58 PM   #24
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Also...I'm trying to identify the issues with the tuning....I'm going to get a custom tune I just don't see why this build would be outside the capabilities of tuning...
can you elaborate on this "custom" tune? will you be using Pro-EFI? AEM? who's doing the tuning?
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:18 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by diablorojo View Post
Don't want to change out internals until I know the car can tune for reliability. Once it runs, I will stroke it to 3.2 and lower compression drastically and turn up boost.
i think that the above is beyond the scope of being fixed, in either instance. But first and foremost, you need to find a way to keep that belt gripped to the sc pulley. I mean, from a mechanical standpoint, there seem to be a few potentially half-cooked ideas that just need a tad more baking. Like your measurement of boost/fuel consumption.

And beyond that. tuning. I thought it was implicit that you had this thought out, which is why I didn't ask, I expected a posting including a completely functional path to getting it running. How do you plan to measure air to 600whp?- your current solution wont do it...
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Old 10-31-2011, 02:27 PM   #26
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I hve faith the stock internals will hold, yes it's just the head gasket for now. Don't want to change out internals until I know the car can tune for reliability. Once it runs, I will stroke it to 3.2 and lower compression drastically and turn up boost. If something breaks I'll fix it. you all have valid points but since no one knows an exact HP that the internals fail, I'm going to chance it. The car is being reassembled as we speak. The only things I don't have are the turbo and turbo oil lines.

I would like to know how much HP a T72 puts out with a 9am waste gate...I want 600whp (yes I could have done a turbo build I know, just not the way I choose to go).

What's the difference with hpf fuel rails?
Good luck
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Old 10-31-2011, 03:53 PM   #27
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you want a rear mounted T72 turbo? I wouldn't even go that big considering:

1. It is not a V8 and not enough displacement/exhaust pulse to get you the response out of that big turbo you want, turbo runs on hot exhaust gasses and it is much cooler at the back then just running it off a turbo manifold.

2. A smaller turbo with newer technology would do the trick since a compound set up runs both systems conservatively pressure wise. Basically you will not be running the turbo hot enough at 8-10psi.

I have done a few twincharged set ups and as cool as it is you add complexity to the car and the 600whp level can be reached with just supercharging or turbocharging.

But if you insist, you will probably want to rethink the remote mounted T72 turbo, if you do remote mounted go for a smaller turbo and coat the exhaust to keep the heat in it, use a thermal barrier coating. With the twin charging you might lose the supercharger whine most like as I have noticed on a few set ups.

Also, you are going to need something more then just a Walbro 255HP. you can do a oem or 255HP in tank feeding into a sump/cell about 1 gallon in size then a bosch 044, deatchwerks 300+LPH or any external high pressure/volume pump to the rail.
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Old 10-31-2011, 04:34 PM   #28
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You have to use a large turbo for several reasons, first being running low boost so u need a larger turbo to produce more air. Second the turbo effect (lag and spool) is reduced with the air forced by the supercharger. This severly shortens spool up time compared to N/A.

As far as the belt, I don't see any issues with the belt because it's not spinning any faster. 8 psi is standard size for ess setup. Because it's twin screw there is no additional speed generated by the supercharger.

As far as tuning, not sure. I will start at square one and move on from there. Several mentions about tuning on here but what are the issues from a tuning stand point? What's the difference from running 20psi boost on a supercharger? I would imagine it's the same complications which have been worked out on previous projects. I heard air monitoring, I'll look at the stock limitations and create a solution from there.

When I say custom I mean a dyne tune. The question for me is what point the stock ECU can no longer make the needed adjustments....I haven't been able to find this answer from real world applications. I understand there are several aftermarkets products that work better, but when does stock stop working...
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:37 PM   #29
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Before proceeding, please read into one-off turbo projects with ms45 and how well they're running. Look up Ritos and how well his much simpler turbo setup works. And don't do anything you dont have a plan for which to reach the end. You need someone to agree to tune what you plan to do. Not everyone has good access to your dme.
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:53 PM   #30
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How long do you expect this build to take you start to finish?
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Old 10-31-2011, 05:58 PM   #31
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How long do you expect this build to take you start to finish?
Add a week and multiply x3, since this is ultra custom multiply times another 5.
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:10 PM   #32
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I do have a tuner and will research your suggestions...
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Old 10-31-2011, 06:14 PM   #33
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What is the maximum boost you can run on a ESS supercharger? Can you just get a different pulley?
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:34 PM   #34
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U can boost the SC high but it's all bottom end. The compound gives best of both
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:51 PM   #35
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I agree with most, Just do your homework and it looks like you've made some attempt to do so. This has been done before on other platforms but I haven't heard anyone doing this with a M54B30.
As for Tuning, This is the most important, No matter how well you think you have your car sorted out if you don't have a tuner able and willing it's pointless.
I didn't plan and just went on a limb thinking someone would help me but they didn't. It's not because they can't they just want because you are venturing into uncharted territory that no one has. Honestly I think this will work for you but your best option would be to go standalone(with tuner ready) unless you know for a fact X tuner is already on board with the project and that he can tune this type of setup.
Ask me how I know!
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Old 10-31-2011, 07:56 PM   #36
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Way to complicated for me just too Much money.

I would rather buy a cheap s13 s14 and be fast as hell.

I am planning to run a nitrous set up. But I have always wondered how high you can run on ess. I see other super chargers boosting a lot more and I am curious on why BMW Superchargers are not boosting more

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Old 10-31-2011, 08:05 PM   #37
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I see other super chargers boosting a lot more and I am curious on why BMW Superchargers are not boosting more

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Simple, someone, whether it be Active, ESS, VF etc has done their homework and know that's all the motor can safely handle. The m54 is an aluminum block and won't hold those head studs but for long. Who knows, maybe our internals can't take anymore than 11psi either. I'm sure there's a reason. We will all find out for sure when we see not if, but what lets go on the OP's motor first.
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Old 10-31-2011, 08:06 PM   #38
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So the head studs are the main reason?

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Old 10-31-2011, 08:16 PM   #39
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So the head studs are the main reason?

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Not necessarily. Most of the time when the head lifts on any other car the gasket blows and the studs are stretched. Simple fix, new studs, new head gasket and your good to go. With the block being aluminum it won't take much extra pressure for them to not only stretch, but to strip the threads and pull straight out of the block. Then your looking at buying a block, studs, and head gasket. On top of whatever else you might have damaged in the head.
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Old 10-31-2011, 09:51 PM   #40
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Lol...I have a tuner who will do it, actually 2, but because it hasn't been done I (we) don't know the capabilities until we are in it. All these projects have their challenges but that's why we do them (or I do them) it's a challenge and a hobby. Expensive hobby, but a hobby none the less. I like speed. My daily driver is an XFR. In not trying to be rude, just hoped the true enthusiasts would be supportive and go for the ride as I do this. I've taken an interest in several people's projects and just wanted to open mine so others could do the same.

Compound boost gives the low end from the supercharger and high end from the turbo. I don't have all the answers but believe I have researched before spends 10's of thousands of dollars in aftermarket parts.

As of right now the only concern is tuning, but that's just because of what's said on these forums. Anyone with tuning experience know why this would be a challenge of stock ECU? The more info I have the more help I can offer to my tuner and the education would be appreciated.

The car should be complete this weekend and tuned without the turbo next week to give me a base HP and and running point. The turbo is added thereafter. The tune will be with a 13psi pulley though (will drop down once turbo is on).
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