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Forced Induction Forum Sponsored by Active Autowerke
Discuss supercharging, turbocharging and even nitrous and water injection here.
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Old 10-31-2011, 11:05 PM   #41
forcefedvw
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I agree Your going to need bigger injectors , I did a build years ago to a s2000 rear mount turbo but chose a 67mm. . Vw has been twincharging for years on small displacement engines and they have won awards for engine of year for it so I am sure you will have good results. A t72 might be too big that far away from the exhaust velocity.
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:03 AM   #42
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Originally Posted by E46_330i_Stud View Post
Technique Tunings kit with a thicker head gasket and studs puts down 400whp on like 11psi. Might be a little more boost. OP just needs to be careful not to lift the head enough to strip the head studs straight out of the aluminum block. But I agree, the internals will need work for sure.
all worng wrong wrong. yOU have ALL this bolt on stuff and no software, DME, My God or anything to CONTROL all this and NO BUILT internals.

Brother, you MUST budild up your internals, rods, low compression forged pistons, maybe some cams. yOU MUST GET BIGGER INJECTRORS!!! Really big i am thinkingat least 1000cc
Its goijg to be expensicve and very very fast. with zero lag.
I am jealous.

T
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Old 11-01-2011, 05:33 AM   #43
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all worng wrong wrong. yOU have ALL this bolt on stuff and no software, DME, My God or anything to CONTROL all this and NO BUILT internals.

Brother, you MUST budild up your internals, rods, low compression forged pistons, maybe some cams. yOU MUST GET BIGGER INJECTRORS!!! Really big i am thinkingat least 1000cc
Its goijg to be expensicve and very very fast. with zero lag.
I am jealous.

T
First of all, can't understand anything your saying. English please. Second, how am I wrong?
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Old 11-01-2011, 06:55 AM   #44
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Originally Posted by E46_330i_Stud View Post
Simple, someone, whether it be Active, ESS, VF etc has done their homework and know that's all the motor can safely handle. The m54 is an aluminum block and won't hold those head studs but for long. Who knows, maybe our internals can't take anymore than 11psi either. I'm sure there's a reason. We will all find out for sure when we see not if, but what lets go on the OP's motor first.
This is strictly assumption and in large part, wrong. The weaknesses of the m54 have nothing to do with aluminum at these power levels. 500whp has been done on a stock bottom end. Where do you get this stuff?

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Not necessarily. Most of the time when the head lifts on any other car the gasket blows and the studs are stretched. Simple fix, new studs, new head gasket and your good to go. With the block being aluminum it won't take much extra pressure for them to not only stretch, but to strip the threads and pull straight out of the block. Then your looking at buying a block, studs, and head gasket. On top of whatever else you might have damaged in the head.
that doesnt quiet happen like that most of the time. Very rarely do threads strip over a head gasket leak. Ant then, if that does happen, there are still other options. What else would you damage on the head?.. the head?

i dunno what bdave was saying either, but he's right, you're wrong.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:06 AM   #45
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I have seen it mentioned a few other times in similar threads and seen it discussed. Not saying it happens alot but it is much more likely at 23psi correct? Seems like alot of boost to me for an aluminum block. I'm no FI expert but something's going to give.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:19 AM   #46
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you're right, something will probably give, but it ends there. If tuned correctly, I wouldn't be concerned with headstud stretch and pulling aluminum block damage in the headbolt area.

there isn't one thread in the past 3 years that yields block damage like that on this website, i seriously don't know what you're talking about. It has been discussed, but hasn't happened, it's the wrong paradigm of destruction on an m54. Take it from someone who has gone through m54 failure in almost every part.
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Old 11-01-2011, 07:32 AM   #47
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you're right, something will probably give, but it ends there. If tuned correctly, I wouldn't be concerned with headstud stretch and pulling aluminum block damage in the headbolt area.

there isn't one thread in the past 3 years that yields block damage like that on this website, i seriously don't know what you're talking about. It has been discussed, but hasn't happened, it's the wrong paradigm of destruction on an m54. Take it from someone who has gone through m54 failure in almost every part.
Maybe it's the discussion threads that I'm thinking about. Either way I think the OP needs to figure out the tuning part before he finishes out the build. My vote would be to run Pro-EFI so he can run e85
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:28 AM   #48
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Maybe it's the discussion threads that I'm thinking about. Either way I think the OP needs to figure out the tuning part before he finishes out the build. My vote would be to run Pro-EFI so he can run e85
there's plenty of other tuning options that would also provide the op with e85 ability. Proefi might be more plugandplay though... also jason seems to be providing tunes.

I think that while tuning is a main concern and while he claims to have a tuner, he doesn't share who that person is and what they'll be tuning and using to measure air. But still, the hardware conception phase needs further development.
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Old 11-01-2011, 08:49 AM   #49
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there's plenty of other tuning options that would also provide the op with e85 ability. Proefi might be more plugandplay though... also jason seems to be providing tunes.

I think that while tuning is a main concern and while he claims to have a tuner, he doesn't share who that person is and what they'll be tuning and using to measure air. But still, the hardware conception phase needs further development.
Ah ok. With this kind of boost tuning with a MAF in completely out of the question. Correct?
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:11 AM   #50
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You have to use a large turbo for several reasons, first being running low boost so u need a larger turbo to produce more air. Second the turbo effect (lag and spool) is reduced with the air forced by the supercharger. This severly shortens spool up time compared to N/A.
Coming from a person who has done twincharge set ups listen to what I told you.

Big old T72 turbo, rear mounted at the back on a colder exhaust piping is no bueno. There are several Billet wheel T3 turbine turbos that can push 80lbs/min that will spool much faster then the old T72. BTW the supercharger has nothing to do with the exhaust thermal dynamics, turbos run off the exhaust pulses/heat...cooler exhaust pulses = slower spool.

But once you have your build all set, a lot of thinking and planning go into a build like that. A T72 turbo is not much thinking for a twincharge set up for 600whp. Just keep researching on turbos a bit more and remote mounted set ups...
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Old 11-01-2011, 09:13 AM   #51
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But still, the hardware conception phase needs further development.
I completely agree on this
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:15 AM   #52
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wait wait. How did frozen water even get in the supercharger?. Please don't tell me your meth injection and nitrous was tapped either before or in the supercharger.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:38 AM   #53
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BTW the supercharger has nothing to do with the exhaust thermal dynamics, turbos run off the exhaust pulses/heat...cooler exhaust pulses = slower spool.
He was referring to the fact that more HP is generated sooner (WAY sooner with a TS) resulting in more exhaust (obviously) and faster spool.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:40 AM   #54
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wait wait. How did frozen water even get in the supercharger?. Please don't tell me your meth injection and nitrous was tapped either before or in the supercharger.
It's common to put nitrous through a TS or roots blower before the lobes. It's not common to do both meth and nitrous at the same time though. Assuming the cold nitrous froze the water in the meth.

Those lobes have ultra, ultra tight tolerances, anything will kill them, too much heat can even cause them to grenade.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:42 AM   #55
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It's common to put nitrous through a TS or roots blower before the lobes. It's not common to do both meth and nitrous at the same time though. Assuming the cold nitrous froze the water in the meth.

Those lobes have ultra, ultra tight tolerances, anything will kill them, too much heat can even cause them to grenade.
Right this was exactly my point here. Nitrous and meth? eeeek lol.
But I also was asking where he tapped the meth in. For the love of god I hope the intake manifold. But that's not what it seems like in what he posted lol.
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Old 11-01-2011, 10:43 AM   #56
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Right this was exactly my point here. Nitrous and meth? eeeek lol.
But I also was asking where he tapped the meth in. For the love of god I hope the intake manifold. But that's not what it seems like in what he posted lol.
Do you know what a twin screw/positive displacement blower is? They do not have intake manifolds, they ARE the intake manifold.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:18 AM   #57
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Do you know what a twin screw/positive displacement blower is? They do not have intake manifolds, they ARE the intake manifold.
I must of read the thread wrong. But I thought it said he had a centrifugal supercharger. And he was BUILDING a the new twinscrew kit.
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:36 AM   #58
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Thanks estoril-e46. A couple people have given me things to research, there are those of u that might consider researching what this project really is and how it has worked on other cars. Very popular on Cobalt SS...just don't produce mind blowing numbers, tho a couple of them do run 9 sec quarter miles...
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:38 AM   #59
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Ah ok. With this kind of boost tuning with a MAF in completely out of the question. Correct?
no
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Old 11-01-2011, 11:42 AM   #60
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I will post pics shortly, I have been operating off my ipad2 and I can't seem to upload pics to this site with it. Ill have to do it from my pc...
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