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Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

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Old 12-03-2011, 11:32 AM   #21
paraklas
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lejeunebimmer View Post
That said the clutch I have was a Sachs Performance clutch. Sachs is owned by ZF by the way and also made a lot of other stock parts on our cars. I'll post pics of it up when the new one comes in so you can see that it is from Sachs and not UUC. I forget who made the stock self adjusting one, was it LUK?

I have no doubt that in the e34 M5 the clutch felt great, but I can tell you from experience that the e36 M3 performance clutch and the e34 m5 clutch require quite a bit more effort in an e46, although this can supposedly be remedied by switching an e36m3 slave cylinder (I'm going to guess higher pressure valving).
Are you sure about that? I'd like to make the Sachs performance clutch a bit lighter and I haven't seen somebody being sure about what slave cylinder to get
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Old 12-03-2011, 12:25 PM   #22
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Are you sure about that? I'd like to make the Sachs performance clutch a bit lighter and I haven't seen somebody being sure about what slave cylinder to get
I'm not 100% sure, this is one of those rumors I've heard. It would make sense though since they are different part numbers even though the rest of the clutch controls are pretty much the same, I just bought a new slave for my car, a couple of weeks ago and have installed it. However it hasn't been used per se (installed but not used if that makes any sense) so I may clean it up, box it back up and exchange it for an e36m3 slave. If they'll let me do it. So I'll be the guinea pig I guess.
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Old 12-03-2011, 02:41 PM   #23
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Here is my recent review of my F1 clutch kit.
http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...d.php?t=583279
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Old 12-04-2011, 05:59 PM   #24
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sunnyjay - thanks for there review.

So, I see consensus seems to go to a SMF & non SAC.

I guess my next question would be then, if thats the way I went would I be able to say buy the kit I was lookin at & just get a non SAC PP or is there more to it? Sorry, like I said before we're starting to go over my head on technical aspects.

Thanks to those of you that have posted the product links as well. The have been helpfully I showing more of my options that have been talked about.

Oh and I'm assuming that no matter which direction I go, that it is forgone I should remove the CDV? Seems like it wouldn't be a clutch without dispensing of it from what I've read.
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Old 12-04-2011, 06:33 PM   #25
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You are welcome and do remove the CDV.

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Originally Posted by Hecs21 View Post
sunnyjay - thanks for there review.

So, I see consensus seems to go to a SMF & non SAC.

I guess my next question would be then, if thats the way I went would I be able to say buy the kit I was lookin at & just get a non SAC PP or is there more to it? Sorry, like I said before we're starting to go over my head on technical aspects.

Thanks to those of you that have posted the product links as well. The have been helpfully I showing more of my options that have been talked about.

Oh and I'm assuming that no matter which direction I go, that it is forgone I should remove the CDV? Seems like it wouldn't be a clutch without dispensing of it from what I've read.
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Old 12-04-2011, 11:31 PM   #26
Rob43
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I gave gripforce stage 1 & 2 tremendous consideration when I was looking for a performance upgrade. After lots of research, (this was two years ago) I went with UUC for a little over 1K.

I had read good reviews about the GF, but have also read quite a few bad ones. As already mentioned, the GF uses a 'self adjusting pressure plate" along with a sprung hub clutch. The sprung hub clutch is fine, but if I remember correctly the problem is with the SAPP/SAC. Go to UUC's website, I believe they have a page with plenty of info on the problems of a SAPP/SAC.

Remember, you really only want to do this job one time, because it's a PITA.

Good luck.
From UUC's website:

"ELIMINATION OF THE ''SAC'' (SELF-ADJUSTING CLUTCH)

Many owners of these cars have experienced mushy clutch feel, inconsistent engagement, and premature wear of the clutch in their manual-transmission cars. The reason is quite simple - the original BMW (LUK-manufactured) clutch has a new "SAC" (Self Adjusting Clutch) design. This new mechanism built into the pressure plate is supposed to keep the clutch pedal engagement point the same as the clutch wears... but in all reality, it's a case of "an answer to a question that nobody was asking." They have added a layer of complexity and feedback isolation, filling a need that didn't need filling - it is not too often that anybody notices that their clutch engagement point as moved 1/2" over 50K miles.

The SAC mechanism itself causes problems; it over- or under-adjusts the pressure plate and therefore causes the clutch to slip or burn out prematurely. They are also known to shift, causing the pressure plate release fingers to slip off the plate, keeping 1/3 of the pressure plate engaged at all times. Bottom line is that the only fix is a complete clutch job, and your dealer is likely to claim "driver abuse". We have seen it happen too many times.

The SAC mechanism may not give a clean release like a standard clutch. Instead of just two sets of springs, there is an adjuster mechanism that makes engagement feel mushy or slow.

All UUC Performance Clutches for these models use an all-new design pressure plate that does not have the SAC mechanism. The resulting improvement in feel is immediate - the clutch is easy to modulate and is consistent, regardless of temperature. Additionally, the reliability and lifespan of the clutch are enhanced. The UUC clutch eliminates the SAC mechanism and restores traditional clutch feel with predictable and crisp engagement."

Link: First click on "REPLACEMENT CLUTCH KITS (OE AND HIGH PERFORMANCE)" Then click on "ELIMINATION OF THE ''SAC'' (SELF-ADJUSTING CLUTCH)".
http://www.nexternal.com/shared/Stor...t=products.asp

Good luck.
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 12-05-2011, 02:59 AM   #27
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Thanks Rob!

I went looking for that page earlier when I was on the computer & was having trouble finding it. That verifies what I had gathered was the issue with a SAC.

So then to kinda nutshell all this info together.....
If I say, buy a SMF from Griproce for example to save some $, I can really go with any clutch kit set up I decide too, right? And I can still go with a sprung hub on a non-SAC?

Sorry if anything sounds redundant to what has been explained. I just want to be sure I'm compiling all this great advice into the correct knowledge and understanding.
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:55 AM   #28
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Are you sure about that? I'd like to make the Sachs performance clutch a bit lighter and I haven't seen somebody being sure about what slave cylinder to get
Does the Sachs performance clutch retain the the self adjusting unit?

Thanks
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Old 12-05-2011, 07:56 AM   #29
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To throw in a potentially conflicting point of view, there was a redesign of the SAC mechanism some years back which apparently replaced what was originally a nylon part with a steel part. While UUC's accounting of the earlier mechanism is spot on, I'm not sure it's still applicable to the newer units. I have zero complaints about my new stock clutch (after 36k+ miles now) which is far more than I could say about the original factory installed clutch.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:10 AM   #30
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I'm gonna call some of the retailers this week and ask them about some of the more technical issues and more about what they have to offer.

Keep the ball rolling in here as it has been and I'm sure will be very helpful to me & I think could make a good reference thread for others. I think we're kinda consolidating a lot of the stuff I was picking out from all over in one place, which is what I was kinda hoping for.
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Old 12-05-2011, 09:35 AM   #31
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Go with oem flywheel and clutch. Found out the previous owner installed a light weight fly wheel and that explained why it was such a PITA in traffic and chattered like hell. Went oem dual mass and it shifts so smoothly and did not notice any decrease in performance thats worth mentioning
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Old 12-05-2011, 11:31 AM   #32
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How light of a flywheel did the original installed? Anything lighter then 16lbs is going to have some heavy chatter.

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Go with oem flywheel and clutch. Found out the previous owner installed a light weight fly wheel and that explained why it was such a PITA in traffic and chattered like hell. Went oem dual mass and it shifts so smoothly and did not notice any decrease in performance thats worth mentioning
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Old 12-05-2011, 12:17 PM   #33
ZeroSum
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Are you sure about that? I'd like to make the Sachs performance clutch a bit lighter and I haven't seen somebody being sure about what slave cylinder to get
The E46 M3 master / slave cylinder bolts straight up, I have it on my car. Can't say if it will help ease the pedal effort though. Have you already got a SS clutch line?
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:22 PM   #34
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So is the optimum answer a steel single-mass flywheel that weighs about 16 lbs? Doesn't the stock DMF weigh about 23 lbs and the lightweight aluminum flywheel weighs about 8 or 10 lbs?

And when going to a SMF, is it a requirement to use a sprung hub clutch?
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Old 12-05-2011, 01:42 PM   #35
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You really need to consider to total weight of the flywheel/clutch disc/pressure plate combo and not just the weight of any one single component.

Yes, you really want to have some sort of damping mechanism, so a sprung hub clutch should always be used with a SMF.
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Old 12-05-2011, 04:53 PM   #36
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Thanks Rob! .............................

So then to kinda nutshell all this info together.....
If I say, buy a SMF from Griproce for example to save some $, I can really go with any clutch kit set up I decide too, right? And I can still go with a sprung hub on a non-SAC?
The thing you need to carefully figure out is when you "mix n match", will it all work together as one ?

Sometimes it doesn't, so Really try to figure it out. You don't want to do it twice.
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Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 12-05-2011, 05:22 PM   #37
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So is the optimum answer a steel single-mass flywheel that weighs about 16 lbs? It depends, answer below. Doesn't the stock DMF weigh about 23 lbs and the lightweight aluminum flywheel weighs about 8 or 10 lbs?

And when going to a SMF, is it a requirement to use a sprung hub clutch?
Quote:
Originally Posted by TxZHP04 View Post
You really need to consider to total weight of the flywheel/clutch disc/pressure plate combo and not just the weight of any one single component. THIS.

Yes, you really want to have some sort of damping mechanism, so a sprung hub clutch should always be used with a SMF.
All in all it just depends on what you're looking for. You need to ask yourself what you want. Do you want a faster revving motor with more clamping force, but knowing you will get some chatter & other slight driveability issues. Or do you want a stock/slower revving motor with stock clamping force, that has none of these issues. You've all heard that saying: You can't have your cake, and eat it too. Well, it applies on this one.


Good luck.
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Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
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Old 12-05-2011, 06:09 PM   #38
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I am having to replace my clutch VERY soon and cost is an issue!
You have a 10 year old car with 160K on the clock. So, the original clutch did a decent job for the last 10 years. Why not replace it with a similar unit? I did a quick search and a Luk (OEM provider) makes a clutch kit (disk, PP, pilot bearing and TO bearing) for about $280. If the original one lasted 160K and 10 years of service, a $280 unit will get you to 320K by the end of 2021. $28/year seems to be a pretty good value to me. By that time $28 will probably be the cost of a gallon of gas.
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Old 12-07-2011, 01:57 AM   #39
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I have only had the car now for almost 9 months & about 5k miles, so, in reality I don't know if it's the original clutch or not.

I have nothing against going OEM other than the cost & the fact that this could be an opportunity to improve something on the car while I'm at it.
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Old 12-14-2011, 04:43 PM   #40
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Ok guys the clutch & flywheel are on their way!

I went with the Gripforce F1 Stage 2 15.85lb chromolly SMF with a carbonized kevlar sprung hub SAC. I looked into going non-SAC but cost restrictions turned out to be tighter than I had anticipated.

So they told me I should have it by the end of the week & I planned to do it this weekend but UPS is showing an estimated delivery date of Monday

One of my good friends is a really good mechanic & he agreed to do the job with my help. I want to be sure to do as much preventative maintenance as possible at the same time.

Just looking for a quick reminder on anything else I should do...
The kit comes with pilot & release bearings, fork, etc. I am going to have a new RMS & oil pan gasket ready to go. Any other suggestions? Thanks.
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