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Old 08-27-2012, 01:07 PM   #401
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On lower octane fuels you lose a ton of torque the higher the compression you go.

Great numbers Larry and Tom!! I can't wait to see vids of that beast!!!

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Thanks, Chris. I didnt know that. I was pretty sure there was a reason for low compression or all the builds would be 10:1.
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Old 08-27-2012, 01:34 PM   #402
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Honestly 10-1 is not that high these days for a turbo build. I believe that the newer stock BMW turbo vehicles have similar CRs if not higher. If I was building a race only car that was to run unlimited boost then I would run a bit lower but for a street car with low boost on pump gas (less than 18-20) 10-1 is perfectly fine. The additional torque/power that you get off boost from the higher CR is great for a street car!
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Old 08-27-2012, 02:50 PM   #403
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...The additional torque/power that you get off boost from the higher CR is great for a street car!
Very interesting!
Any before/after numbers, any graphs to substantiate that?
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:34 PM   #404
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I believe the E9x is 12:1 compression, the S54 is 11.5:1. Both tuned optimally from the factory to what.. 91 octane? I personally (and this is my opinion) would rather have a car that drove like factory with a little more power but was built to REALLY perform when all the variables are at their highest potential (aka E85, Race Gas, what not).

Why would you want to sacrifice the very thing you intended to do with the car (drive it to its potential) by limiting its performance capabilities with proper fuel, etc by basing the build on making sure it makes bigger numbers (less optimally) on lesser quality fuel.

This of course is not as ideal with an HPF car being it has methanol injection and to switch to race gas requires draining your tank or running it completely dry. Unless I'm mistaken most HPF owners drive the car on pump+meth.. which is great (but I however am pretty against over complicating things and find the methanol systems to be to much monkey business). I'd rather buy a 55g drum of E85 and put a few gallons in at each fill up (if you're not near e85), or before going out to intentionally give it a thrashing then deal with the additional headaches or complications of a methanol system.
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Old 08-27-2012, 03:52 PM   #405
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I agree Marcus, which is why all of our builds these days are at a CR of 10-1. With the newer computers that we have to run timing PERFECTLY, 10-1 is no problem for pump gas. Once HPF switched over to the Infinity systems I think they will start including higher compression in all of their builds.
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Old 08-27-2012, 07:03 PM   #406
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I agree Marcus, which is why all of our builds these days are at a CR of 10-1. With the newer computers that we have to run timing PERFECTLY, 10-1 is no problem for pump gas. Once HPF switched over to the Infinity systems I think they will start including higher compression in all of their builds.
And I agree with both of you! I am glad not to even have a meth system now. The thing (when I was SC'd) was pesky and always running dry. I do feel lucky to have a 24hr E85 station so close to me. I understand here are several more stations around in Broward and Dade counties. I just need to find them.
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Old 08-27-2012, 11:50 PM   #407
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We had the fuel pressure set at 45 but I found out that is too low for the siphon for the saddle tanks to work properly. We handled that.
Larry, what exactly did you do to fix this issue? Do you think it is because of the viscosity of E85? Would the same problem exist if it were gasoline in the tank? I thought 45psi static was about normal for petrol builds.
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:31 AM   #408
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We simply raised the fuel pressure!

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Old 08-28-2012, 10:07 AM   #409
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Old 08-28-2012, 10:53 AM   #410
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crazy!
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:01 AM   #411
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Hey guys I made it back home to Canada safe and sound!

Finanly met Larry and the rest of the team when I picked up my car, nice to put faces to the voices you have heard for the past year over the phone lol... they booked me a alignment/wheel balance appointment at Fall line in Arlington heights, IL this shop is a BMW enthusiasts DREAM SHOP... s85's and s65's in tons of e46s and they had a m3 literally stripped to bare metal that was the next s85 swap I believe... if your in there area drop by you wont be dissapointed trust me I wish I had a shop like this near me, when I bring the car back to SP in the cold season fall line will be doing my rear trunk reinforcement for sure!

Bimmerfest east was awesome, nice to meet so many people, tried to get away from my car as much as possible I kept getting hounded with questions LOL, met Viral and a few other guys from the AA team super cool guys! Thx for the seat hookup too Viral! After bimmerfest east we rolled to NYC which has the worst streets I have ever driven on I can't believe some of the lowered cars I seen there, front lips with chunks missing lol... So far I have only done a full pulls with Iboost setting on 2 which I saw around 18 psi with 83% ethanol when I picked the car up from SP, pure BEAST power I cant wait to get some more e85 and try iBoost 5 setting (33psi I believe) at the track of course haha, I will post a few gopro videos that my buddy recorded of me when he gets them up!

So heres a few issues I had/have...

-Leaking a bit of oil going to try and figure that out today or tmr (also noticed when I parked my car in my garage the oil that was on the floor of my car was really murky looking? I google searched this and seems to be the e85?)

-ran out of gas once, figured out that my fuel pressure was set to low

- gas tank leaks if filled to the top (bad oring?)

- vynil job looks like crap in person (to many seams/crappy cuts) I will be removing this for next season and going with either matte army green paint job or a proper vynil job, same color as the vorsteiner wide body, this was the original 2 colors I was going with, decided with white due to CF accents popping out more but now the back is constantly black as well due to the exhaust/road debris

- car idles lke crap on pump gas but cruises/wot pulls like a champ which clearly is a indicator the injectors are way to big for pump gas but I couldnt even find e85 any gas station I went to, if I did I was already full or I would pass the station lol

-solid mounts are TRASH, ruins the driveability of the BMW, does anyone else have this HPF solid mounts? above 80 mph its like a back massage lol

- hpf rivited clutch seems like its already slipping, doesnt grab from till about 1500 rpm from the get go
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Old 08-28-2012, 11:10 AM   #412
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I agree Marcus, which is why all of our builds these days are at a CR of 10-1. With the newer computers that we have to run timing PERFECTLY, 10-1 is no problem for pump gas. Once HPF switched over to the Infinity systems I think they will start including higher compression in all of their builds.
We do include higher compression in our builds. We've done some 10:1 builds, 11.5:1 builds and 12:1 builds. The higher compression you go, the less torque it makes on pump gas though. Just look at the difference between the HPF stage 2 and HPF stage 2.5. The only difference between the two is a 2.5:1 compression drop.

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Old 08-28-2012, 11:42 AM   #413
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That does not make sense Chris, it should make more torque on higher compression unless you are pulling out way too much timing??
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Old 08-28-2012, 12:42 PM   #414
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oil shouldn't look any different unless it was severly contimanted with water from the E85, and that takes quite a bit of time, haven't seen any contamination from any of my oil changes up to 3500 miles. If you oil was quite a bit older, that may be possible.

the car should idle perfectly between 0% ETOH and 100% ETOH. I have 2000cc injectors and cant tell the difference between full pump gas and E85. Lambda right at 1 as well (so 14.6 on straight pump gas and 9.7 on E85) What is your idle rpm? You can try richening up your idle as well and that will help smooth it out alot.

some clutches dont grab until they get hot. What is the actual brand of the HPF clutch? SOuthbend?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 323tom View Post
-Leaking a bit of oil going to try and figure that out today or tmr (also noticed when I parked my car in my garage the oil that was on the floor of my car was really murky looking? I google searched this and seems to be the e85?)

-ran out of gas once, figured out that my fuel pressure was set to low

- gas tank leaks if filled to the top (bad oring?)

- vynil job looks like crap in person (to many seams/crappy cuts) I will be removing this for next season and going with either matte army green paint job or a proper vynil job, same color as the vorsteiner wide body, this was the original 2 colors I was going with, decided with white due to CF accents popping out more but now the back is constantly black as well due to the exhaust/road debris

- car idles lke crap on pump gas but cruises/wot pulls like a champ which clearly is a indicator the injectors are way to big for pump gas but I couldnt even find e85 any gas station I went to, if I did I was already full or I would pass the station lol

-solid mounts are TRASH, ruins the driveability of the BMW, does anyone else have this HPF solid mounts? above 80 mph its like a back massage lol

- hpf rivited clutch seems like its already slipping, doesnt grab from till about 1500 rpm from the get go
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #415
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Well my afrs seem to be good, haven't run any less then 8% ethanol content and when cruising was about 13.5-13.8 and wot 10.8-11...The e85 crusing afrs were in the 9s can't remember exactly what afrs were when wot I was holding on to my steering wheel as tight as I could and looking forward LOL... I believe the idle rpm is around 900 but it seems to be a bit bouncy with pump gas goes upto 1000 n Seems Rough definetely not Smooth like when the e85 was in it was rock solid idle....It's a south bend clutch.... I'm going to change my oil today or tmr I'll try and post a pic, it wasn't murky where the dipstick was just where it leaked onto my garage floor, seems the leak is coming from the right side of the engine bay, I'm sure I'll figure it out when I get the car on the hoist
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:06 PM   #416
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Well my afrs seem to be good, haven't run any less then 8% ethanol content and when cruising was about 13.5-13.8 and wot 10.8-11...The e85 crusing afrs were in the 9s can't remember exactly what afrs were when wot I was holding on to my steering wheel as tight as I could and looking forward LOL... I believe the idle rpm is around 900 but it seems to be a bit bouncy with pump gas goes upto 1000 n Seems Rough definetely not Smooth like when the e85 was in it was rock solid idle....It's a south bend clutch....
I've experienced the same issues with idle when on 100% pump gas.. with 20% or more E85 it seemed to stick at 880rpm perfectly.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:18 PM   #417
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Don't have enough first hand expiernce with the car yet so not sure what percent of gas vs ethanol makes it start to Idle rough but what size injectors do you have Marcus?
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I've experienced the same issues with idle when on 100% pump gas.. with 20% or more E85 it seemed to stick at 880rpm perfectly.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:19 PM   #418
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Don't have enough first hand expiernce with the car yet so not sure what percent of gas vs ethanol makes it start to Idle rough but what size injectors do you have Marcus?
I'm actually running 1100's.
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:28 PM   #419
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Lol imagine with 2150cc injectors then...
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Old 08-28-2012, 01:29 PM   #420
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Jason warned that these cars would idle like crap on pump gas with the 2150s.
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