E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > Tuning & Tech > Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning

Driveline, Engine & DME Tuning
Talk about driveline improvements, NA tuning and DME tuning your E46 BMW here. This includes diffs, intakes, exhausts, chips, software and OBD tuning.

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 01-24-2012, 09:07 AM   #81
TrippinBimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ridgeland, MS
Posts: 5,376
My Ride: ZHP Custom Stage 3.5
Send a message via AIM to TrippinBimmer Send a message via Yahoo to TrippinBimmer
Starting to grow on me...
TrippinBimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 10:13 AM   #82
aggieE46
Keep it clean
 
aggieE46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Royse City
Posts: 8,030
My Ride: 03 Evo, 07 Passat
Send a message via AIM to aggieE46
Lighter, cheaper, cheaper tires. How can you go wrong?

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrippinBimmer View Post
Starting to grow on me...
__________________
aggieE46 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 01:15 PM   #83
TrippinBimmer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Ridgeland, MS
Posts: 5,376
My Ride: ZHP Custom Stage 3.5
Send a message via AIM to TrippinBimmer Send a message via Yahoo to TrippinBimmer
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggieE46 View Post
Lighter, cheaper, cheaper tires. How can you go wrong?
Wish it was concave 5 point.
TrippinBimmer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 01:53 PM   #84
Rob43
OEM ///Member
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2,555
My Ride: 2003 BMW 331Ci, 5spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I'll tell you a little secret - S54 and M54 injectors are the same thing. The only difference is the S54 runs them at 5 bar and the M54 runs them at 3.5. you'd be far better off using your stock injectors and just increasing base pressure to get the fuel flow you need. there are other characteristics that change with injectors that are not desireable unless you can recalibrate everything. And it would still be better to recalibrate the tune for your new "real" fuel flow.

using 30# injectors with a tune meant for 24#, and using a FPR to adjust everything is not going to end well.. by the time you get the base pressure low enough for it to run, your fuel atomization will be pretty poor. you can't tune a modern DME using a FPR anyway, it's always going to be fighting you with adaptations.

no matter how badly people want it to be, adjusting base pressure with an AFPR is not tuning.
I agree with most of what you are saying. I had a call today "John" at RC Injectors, we went through several calculations using both the 24LBS & 30LBS injectors. After looking at all the available data, his thoughts were it was right on the edge of either size injector. On one hand John said, you could really try to max out the 24 LBS injector to see if it worked out, but may find the motor running lean up top. On the other hand John said, the 30 LBS injectors might run great from 3K to 7K RPM at W.O.T. with perfect/desirable AFR numbers, but the motor might run a little rich with slight drive-ability issues at idle / part throttle. Johns final thoughts were to start with my 24 LBS injectors & run them up to there maximum limit, as needed. But if the fuel system can't push them hard enough or the motor starts to run lean up top, it's definitely time to install the 30 LBS injectors.

Only time will tell.


Rob
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics http://www.vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" M54 CAMS 264/252 $849
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!

Last edited by Rob43; 01-24-2012 at 02:04 PM.
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 03:25 PM   #85
Rob43
OEM ///Member
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2,555
My Ride: 2003 BMW 331Ci, 5spd
So based on xixixi's velocity stack & air filter, that all got me thinking. So after a little research, I decided I wanted a velocity stack that perfectly mated to a cone type air filter. This is what I came up with:


1) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-889606/

2) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-9603/

I just ordered both of these from Amazon, $44.98 with free shipping.



Rob
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics http://www.vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" M54 CAMS 264/252 $849
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 03:26 PM   #86
xixixi
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 3,008
My Ride: 01 330x-xi
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
So based on xixixi's velocity stack & air filter, that all got me thinking. So after a little research, I decided I wanted a velocity stack that perfectly mated to a cone type air filter. This is what I came up with:


1) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-889606/

2) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-9603/

I just ordered both of these from Amazon, $44.98 with free shipping.



Rob
Nice, I paid more for just my filter!
xixixi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 03:46 PM   #87
aggieE46
Keep it clean
 
aggieE46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Royse City
Posts: 8,030
My Ride: 03 Evo, 07 Passat
Send a message via AIM to aggieE46
Are you going to get a couple turbonators inline?
__________________
aggieE46 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 04:27 PM   #88
Rob43
OEM ///Member
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2,555
My Ride: 2003 BMW 331Ci, 5spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by aggieE46 View Post
Are you going to get a couple turbonators inline?
No. Turbonators produce way to much HP for the BMW inline 6. In all honesty, if money & time were no object, I'd dyno the Turbonator thing just to see.

What's funny about you mentioning the Turbonator is, I remember coming up with an idea along time ago; it goes like this. The SCCA rule book says you're able to do anything you want, plus or minus 1" from the intake gasket. So you can port match the intake to the head anyway you see fit, gasket material is "open" (meaning any type you want to use). My crazy idea was to build a "one off" gasket with 6 miniature Turbonator's built into each of the 6 gasket transition holes. Thus the spinning / swirling effect would be aimed right at the valve / combustion camber. I'm sure it wouldn't work, but I remember thinking what a clever horse power producing idea I've come up with ! Youthful Optimism.
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics http://www.vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" M54 CAMS 264/252 $849
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 04:32 PM   #89
aggieE46
Keep it clean
 
aggieE46's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Royse City
Posts: 8,030
My Ride: 03 Evo, 07 Passat
Send a message via AIM to aggieE46
Individual turbonator bodies...
__________________
aggieE46 is online now   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 08:47 PM   #90
xixixi
Banned User
 
Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: St Louis, MO
Posts: 3,008
My Ride: 01 330x-xi
Rob, on that V stack did you ever confirm if it was plastic or steel? Says plastic at the topof the page. But steel at the bottom?
xixixi is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-24-2012, 10:26 PM   #91
Hobbit382
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Az
Posts: 284
My Ride: 99-328i 00-323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
I'll tell you a little secret - S54 and M54 injectors are the same thing. The only difference is the S54 runs them at 5 bar and the M54 runs them at 3.5.

the s54 uses 29# injectors (rated at 43.5psi) the m54 has 2 different size injectors (b30 and b25) the b30 has 24# injectors (again rated at 43.5psi) and the b25 has 19# injectors
the s54, and m54 both run 5 bar fuel pressure, also from what I remember the s54 injectors are shorter than the m54

Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
no matter how badly people want it to be, adjusting base pressure with an AFPR is not tuning.
Agreed. retune for larger injectors
Hobbit382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 05:10 PM   #92
LivesNearCostco
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Silicon Valley
Posts: 767
My Ride: 2003 ZHP 6MT
Rob,

I thought you were a fan of the Cosmo Racing long-tube CAI solution, no?
Let us know how well these fits! Essentially that would be a much cheaper alternative to the aFe Stage 1 intake design, except the aFe also has the metal enclosure. Is it going to fit inside the stock airbox or are you building some other enclosure to keep hot air away from it?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rob43 View Post
So based on xixixi's velocity stack & air filter, that all got me thinking. So after a little research, I decided I wanted a velocity stack that perfectly mated to a cone type air filter. This is what I came up with:

1) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-889606/

2) http://www.summitracing.com/parts/SPE-9603/

I just ordered both of these from Amazon, $44.98 with free shipping.
Rob
__________________
Lowering my car's resale value one track day at a time...
LivesNearCostco is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-25-2012, 05:49 PM   #93
Rob43
OEM ///Member
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2,555
My Ride: 2003 BMW 331Ci, 5spd
Quote:
Originally Posted by xixixi View Post
Rob, on that V stack did you ever confirm if it was plastic or steel? Says plastic at the topof the page. But steel at the bottom?
I'm betting anything that it's plastic, I really don't care as long as it does its job.

Quote:
Originally Posted by LivesNearCostco View Post
Rob,

I thought you were a fan of the Cosmo Racing long-tube CAI solution, no? Actually I'm a big fan of that cheap CAI from Cosmo. When a forum member has a stock air box & wants to upgrade to a CAI, they're usually looking at $250 to $400 CAI's. That cheap Cosmo Racing CAI really will work, is very cost effective, & will make a few WHP. For $146, it's a win win product in my book.
Let us know how well these fits! Essentially that would be a much cheaper alternative to the aFe Stage 1 intake design, except the aFe also has the metal enclosure. Is it going to fit inside the stock airbox or are you building some other enclosure to keep hot air away from it?
I'm going to run it down low like any good CAI, one of the key things to do when making your own CAI is to make sure you have a minimum 4" of straight tube leading to (in front of) the MAF. It's important for the MAF to have "straight" or "clean air" for proper operation.

This filter & velocity stack could easily replace (as long as the dimensions work) any short ram or cold air intake system, filter component.


Good luck.
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics http://www.vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" M54 CAMS 264/252 $849
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 08:07 AM   #94
hassmaschine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ferndale, WA
Posts: 198
My Ride: '91 325ix
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hobbit382 View Post

the s54 uses 29# injectors (rated at 43.5psi) the m54 has 2 different size injectors (b30 and b25) the b30 has 24# injectors (again rated at 43.5psi) and the b25 has 19# injectors
the s54, and m54 both run 5 bar fuel pressure, also from what I remember the s54 injectors are shorter than the m54
I had a set flowtested, as did my friend with an M54B30 (by witchunter). They are the same exact injector (24# at 3 bar). the only difference is the S54 injector is shorter, as you said, thus the different BMW part #. The siemens part # is the same, 1439800. Only the body is different.

The 330/325 runs at 51 *psi* (3.5 bar), not 5 bar (~73 psi). the regulator/filter assembly for the S54 is vastly different, as is the pump. And it only runs at full pressure under high load (PWM controlled FP relay! neat!), probably because it would be too noisy at idle/low speeds.

Effectively the 330's injector is ~26# at 3.5 bar, and the S54's is ~31# at 5 bar. That's why the S54 can make 300+hp with the same injector.
hassmaschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 10:04 AM   #95
Hobbit382
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: Az
Posts: 284
My Ride: 99-328i 00-323i
Quote:
Originally Posted by hassmaschine View Post
The 330/325 runs at 51 *psi* (3.5 bar), not 5 bar (~73 psi).
shit, your right...
Hobbit382 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 10:18 AM   #96
hassmaschine
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Ferndale, WA
Posts: 198
My Ride: '91 325ix
yeah, I thought you might be right on the injectors (AKA I got ripped off) but I found pics of M54 and S54 injectors, while they do look different (and mine are for sure S54), they use the same siemens part # for whatever reason. I still want to have a look at my set to double check though, maybe the injector place got it wrong. :p

edit: I'm leaning towards the injector place being wrong (WTF - they've only flowtested 1000's of injectors!).

Last edited by hassmaschine; 01-26-2012 at 10:31 AM.
hassmaschine is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 06:19 PM   #97
Rob43
OEM ///Member
 
Rob43's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Richmond VA
Posts: 2,555
My Ride: 2003 BMW 331Ci, 5spd
Went to the "Race Shop" today, Big things in motion !



Lee Y., where are you ?




Rob
__________________



Rob #43 ITS/ITR/STU, BMW 325I, STU LAP RECORD
SUMMIT POINT WV 1:24:229 S.C.C.A.
(DynoDynamics http://www.vimeo.com/8486878 Dyno Video)
"Chance Favors The Prepared Mind" M54 CAMS 264/252 $849
Quote:
Originally Posted by RacerX View Post
Nitrous is a little trickier than boost, but it's not the spray that kills motors, it's STUPIDITY!!
Rob43 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 01-26-2012, 06:29 PM   #98
BimmerBrakes
The Brake Newbie!
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: DFW, Tx
Posts: 1,146
My Ride: 2005 ZHP BMW
Send a message via AIM to BimmerBrakes
^ WOOT! Can't wait to see results ROB!
BimmerBrakes is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Censor is OFF





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:02 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2011 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use