E46 BMW Social Directory E46 FAQ 3-Series Discussion Forums BMW Photo Gallery BMW 3-Series Technical Information E46 Fanatics - The Ultimate BMW Resource BMW Vendors General E46 Forum The Tire Rack's Tire Wheel Forum Forced Induction Forum The Off-Topic The E46 BMW Showroom For Sale, For Trade or Wanting to Buy

Welcome to the E46Fanatics forums. E46Fanatics is the premiere website for BMW 3 series owners around the world with interactive forums, a geographical enthusiast directory, photo galleries, and technical information for BMW enthusiasts.

You are currently viewing our boards as a guest which gives you limited access to view most discussions and access our other features. By joining our free community you will have access to post topics, communicate privately with other members (PM), respond to polls, upload content and access many other special features. Registration is fast, simple and absolutely free so please, join our community today!

If you have any problems with the registration process or your account login, please contact contact us.

Go Back   E46Fanatics > E46 BMW > General E46 Forum

General E46 Forum
This is the place to get answers, opinions and everything you need related to your E46 (sedan, coupe, convertible and wagon) BMW!

Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
Old 04-20-2016, 02:00 AM   #1
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
M54 Cold start issues

So i been having cold start issues in the morning.
Will swing on the 3rd attempt

I replaced:
Spark plugs
PCV/CCV
ALL 4 vacuum hoses
valve cover gaskets
Fuel filter
Cleaned out ICV
Cleaned out Throttle body
Serviced/Cleaned the DISA
Cleaned MAF
replaced Intake rubber pipes ( Both of them )
Replaced the CAMshaft EXHAUST and INTAKE sensors
Car had a Service down when i bought it ...

GUESS WHAT, the Cold start issue is still there...
NOW, when i turn key to Position 2 i get this F**Ked up humming/moaning noise from under the dash then it kicks off.
Now with that being said, Im thinking Fuel Relay thats maybe the issue? or a weak fuel pump?

I did a test over a few days. prime the pump once and it starts but dies immediately. did this 2 days
then i primed it 3times and same issue. starts but dies immediately. did this for 2 days
I then primed it 6 times and it starts and idles as it should ( idles up to 1000rpm ) when cold...
Then the Idle drops to just above 500Rpm and stays there...

i connected the Delphi to check for codes and nothing appeared other than my ABS unit ( which i know needs replacing )..

NOW, can a faulty Fuel pump and/or faulty relay cause cold start issues?( i can answer that but saying yes. Low pressure in fuel system will cause it )
BUT
Can it be the reason for my low idle issue?
No misfires detected
Just a Low idle ( not rough but the low idle causes a vibration through the car )

please help
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Ads by Google

Guests, get your FREE E46Fanatics.com membership to remove this ad.
Old 04-20-2016, 06:12 AM   #2
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 18,277
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5
Sounds like is may be a soft failing fuel pump.

Right before they finally quit, they drop in pressure/volume and this causes the Fuel Pressure Regulator to moan. The FPR is part of the fuel filter and it is located under the left side floor board. Kind of sounds like an elephant and can be heard outside the car a up to 50+ feet away.

So it this is the type of noise you are hearing, then fuel pump should be the next thing you replaced.

Read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 07:58 AM   #3
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Sounds like is may be a soft failing fuel pump.

Right before they finally quit, they drop in pressure/volume and this causes the Fuel Pressure Regulator to moan. The FPR is part of the fuel filter and it is located under the left side floor board. Kind of sounds like an elephant and can be heard outside the car a up to 50+ feet away.

So it this is the type of noise you are hearing, then fuel pump should be the next thing you replaced.

Read this thread - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501
EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE!!!!! will get a New fuel filter right now

Thanks Mate
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 08:10 AM   #4
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 18,277
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evnmopwr View Post
EXACTLY WHAT IT SOUNDS LIKE!!!!! will get a New fuel filter right now

Thanks Mate
The problem is NOT the fuel filter, it is the fuel pump.

The fuel pump is dying/dead. The fuel filter could use replacement, but this will not solve the problem.

Replace the fuel pump, it is actually easier to replace than the fuel filter!!
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-20-2016, 08:11 AM   #5
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
The problem is NOT the fuel filter, it is the fuel pump.

The fuel pump is dying/dead. The fuel filter could use replacement, but this will not solve the problem.

Replace the fuel pump, it is actually easier to replace than the fuel filter!!
Sorry... meant the fuel pump...
I already replaced the fuel Filter... Lol

you think i just by the pump and use the same carrier? or buy it complete

yup i have done it before ( Had a leak ... someone did not fit the seal correctly and my float was busted.. )

Last edited by Evnmopwr; 04-20-2016 at 08:12 AM.
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 02:02 AM   #6
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
@jfoj

Check this Video recording i made this morning out... ( its a Right hand drive South African model )
The phone is sitting on the Passenger side foot well.

View My Video

That's the noise i hear every morning
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 06:37 AM   #7
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Let me know once you had a listen and confirm If you think its a Soft failing pump...
I have purchased a new one anyway so will install this weekend and feedback
I also bought a New Relay aswell

Fuel filter was already replaced as part of my Service/Troubleshooting
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-21-2016, 06:25 PM   #8
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 18,277
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5
I could not really hear any "moaning" or "honking" in the video.

If you have the fuel pump, just replace it. It should take no longer than about 20-30 minutes if you wore efficiently.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-22-2016, 01:42 AM   #9
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
I could not really hear any "moaning" or "honking" in the video.

If you have the fuel pump, just replace it. It should take no longer than about 20-30 minutes if you wore efficiently.
Thanks mate...
The noise that sounds like a "Ship Horn", is the "Moaning" maybe its like Really early stages..
Its never been there before
But i got the no and then weak acceleration etc..

Will replace tomorrow. Weather is not so good today
Thanks for the assistance.. Will update on monday

Last edited by Evnmopwr; 04-22-2016 at 04:32 AM.
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 01:22 AM   #10
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
UPDATE!!!!!

Replaced the Fuel pump ... no more "Moaning" and no more COLD START ISSUES

NOTE: the mornings this side has not been that cold, and i did get up abit later than usual so i would say its still a test in progress. But Saturday, Sunday and this morning, All started up perfectly
( STILL Have a LOW IDLE . ... :'( )

Is this a Low idle? or is it normal ...


Its not rough. but does cause a Slight vibration through the car...

Other than That she drives perfectly..
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 07:36 AM   #11
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 18,277
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5
Another soft fuel pump caught before the driver was stranded and other driveability problems resolved!
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 07:48 AM   #12
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Another soft fuel pump caught before the driver was stranded and other driveability problems resolved!
Thanks to you bud..
Old Pump was the original one.. Dealer Print out does not show that it was ever replaced while under warrenty
And by the looks of the old pump/Carrier ( original one ) its never been replaced

Old versus New


I connected both up and had them out the tank and primed them
Old one sounded SICK AS HELL!!!

new one was soft and sweet..

Any ideas on the Low idle when in gear? R or D and the Revs sit just above 500rpm. its an Auto ( Vibration and barely moves forward when break is released )
P or N it will be idle at 600Rpm .. ( no vibration and smooth idle )

It started with this when i replaced the Exhaust Camshaft Sensor ...
With the Original one ( Which was throwing out codes ), It would idle funny and hunt ( not sure if that was my airleak or not ) but will steady up on 800rpm when warm and be 100% ok...

you think i should replace the Cam shaft exhaust sensor with the Original one and see?
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:05 AM   #13
WDE46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Old Greg's Cavern
Posts: 11,597
My Ride: 2004 330Ci OBM
What brand is your replacement sensor?

Have you ever replaced your VANOS seals? Cleaned ICV with Seafoam Deep Creep?
__________________

I have a dream that one day our children will live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of
their skin but by the color of their coolant.
WDE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:07 AM   #14
jfoj
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Fairfax, VA USA
Posts: 18,277
My Ride: 330CiC, M5, X5
Chances are there is still a vacuum leak, possibly even the power brake booster. Post warm idle Fuel Trim values for review.
__________________
Solve your misfires, lean codes, rough idle - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=897616

Fuel pump failures - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=929501

Temp Info - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=964491

Hidden OBC Menu - Check Voltage, Temp, Fuel Level - http://forum.e46fanatics.com/showthread.php?t=239619

E46/E39 GM5 Door Lock Info - www.bmwgm5.com

Lower hose temp switch O-ring - BMW #13621743299
jfoj is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:18 AM   #15
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
What brand is your replacement sensor?

Have you ever replaced your VANOS seals? Cleaned ICV with Seafoam Deep Creep?
Its a Local South African brand ( Arrow )... Pretty good in actual fact

Nope... never replaced ( plan to do it with Besian seals soon )
ICV was cleaned using CRC Cleaner

Seafoam Deep Creep - an international brand equivalent? since i wont find that locally here in SA
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:20 AM   #16
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by jfoj View Post
Chances are there is still a vacuum leak, possibly even the power brake booster. Post warm idle Fuel Trim values for review.
I will Connect up Delphi this Evening and Post up fuel trim values tomorrow.

I have checked Pipes etc leading to the PBB but seemed ok...
I will recheck that all my connections are 100% to rule out the vacuum leak
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:23 AM   #17
WDE46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Old Greg's Cavern
Posts: 11,597
My Ride: 2004 330Ci OBM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Evnmopwr View Post
Its a Local South African brand ( Arrow )... Pretty good in actual fact

Nope... never replaced ( plan to do it with Besian seals soon )
ICV was cleaned using CRC Cleaner

Seafoam Deep Creep - an international brand equivalent? since i wont find that locally here in SA
If you cleaned it with some CRC product, it's probably good.

Sensor brand is important. Get Siemens VDO only in my opinion. They're the OEM. You can never know with off-brand sensors if they're good or not. There are a lot of aspects of a sensor that need to be just right to guarantee the ECU is getting the signal it expects.
__________________

I have a dream that one day our children will live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of
their skin but by the color of their coolant.
WDE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:40 AM   #18
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
If you cleaned it with some CRC product, it's probably good.

Sensor brand is important. Get Siemens VDO only in my opinion. They're the OEM. You can never know with off-brand sensors if they're good or not. There are a lot of aspects of a sensor that need to be just right to guarantee the ECU is getting the signal it expects.
I figured yes... I'm still a bit unsure on On the reading it gives me, if its a curate or not. but im busy driving the tank empty to see.

Also, I have acquired a BOSCH fuel pump ( For free ) from a bud of mine. Brand new. So i plan to fit that to the original carrier and will just replace the Pickup Filter.. Hence i threw nothing away and since only the PUMP sounded like a dieing dog when being primed..

Last edited by Evnmopwr; 04-25-2016 at 09:41 AM.
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-25-2016, 09:47 AM   #19
WDE46
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: Old Greg's Cavern
Posts: 11,597
My Ride: 2004 330Ci OBM
I'm a bit confused by this last post...

I thought you replaced the pump already with a new assembly. No reason to keep the old one around.
__________________

I have a dream that one day our children will live in a
nation where they will not be judged by the color of
their skin but by the color of their coolant.
WDE46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 05-13-2016, 03:30 AM   #20
Evnmopwr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2016
Location: Cape Town
Posts: 49
My Ride: 2002 E46 320i
Quote:
Originally Posted by WDE46 View Post
If you cleaned it with some CRC product, it's probably good.

Sensor brand is important. Get Siemens VDO only in my opinion. They're the OEM. You can never know with off-brand sensors if they're good or not. There are a lot of aspects of a sensor that need to be just right to guarantee the ECU is getting the signal it expects.
I misred you question... you asked what sensor it is, though you was refering to the fuel pump...

The CS exhaust Sensor brand is FEBI.
the VDO/Siemens brands are crap expensive this side of the world.
Something like R2500 (South African Rands) ... The Febi one i paid R900 for. stayed away from the Cheap R150 to R200 ones
Evnmopwr is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On
Censor is ON





All times are GMT -5. The time now is 02:16 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
(c) 1999 - 2016 performanceIX Inc - privacy policy - terms of use